OT: Dovetail to launch two new flight sim titles in 2016

[JimmyRFR]

Not really closely related. One is a Flight School sim, a closed platform, (no 3rd party add-ons) the other is a Flight sim, hopefully with 3rd party add-ons.

Not related in function or purpose, but it's likely that they'll share the same engine. I meant 'closely related' from a technical standpoint. I'm sure they're going to use the experience they gain with their initial release to tune and work with the latter release.

The expected target market for each, and purpose for existing, is clearly far apart.

[StormILM]

This seems like they have taken FSX, taken out the training missions with lessons & made it into a separate program, & modernized it to 64bit, DX11.

Anyone know how compatible 32bit add-ons will be?

That's the $50,000 question many want to know. I've heard a number of sources note that every addon from FSX would come to a grinding halt in a 64bit version (supposedly due to gauges and a number of other factors) but I've heard others say that's not necessarily the case or at all. I do take note that FSX and P3D are both 32 bit programs which will run fine on a 64bit OS. I do understand the difference, the addons are built/optimized to run inside a 32bit program but I still believe there is likely a logical (and possibly painless way) to migrate. Maybe I'm wrong on my supposition of the latter but I'm sure this is being looked at and worked on from every conceivable angle. With regards to the question of "why not just go ahead and get P3Dv3"?, my biggest ill (as well as many users) is the VAS limitation and other bugs related to memory, etc. I think DFS is going to pretty much cure all the FSX bugs and open a whole new world of capabilities (if I am reading the tech end of all this correctly). I believe both DFS and P3D will end up sharing a number of common elements and this news (regarding DFS being 64bit from the get-go) seems to parallel the word that P3D will get similar 64bit treatment in due course. I don't think any of us will be disappointed in the end product but I do believe the current FSX user migration will be gradual much as it was for many who changed over from a long use of FS9 over to FSX during the last decade.

[Firekitten]

Lost two generations of developers?


I'm in my late 20s... I consider myself one of those generations.

We are still finding new ways to bring features to fsx and p3d, so its hardly dead, in fact, i'd say its more inovative and creative than ever.

Plus, they make a point of avidly avoiding p3d... dx11... 64 bit....


What if their new flightsim is simply the same line of evolution with an entertainment licence? its clearly been done and thus possible... why work with flight, a broken piece of gosa, when an architectural direction of evolution exists?

[YoYo]

I hope not only for Windows 10.

https://news.xbox.com/2016/02/11/dov...-one-in-april/

[zswobbie1]

Mmmmm, Interesting....

[SpaceWeevil]

P3D already looks this good and incorporates everything other than 64bit that I see in that screenshot. It's already here in P3Dv3.1. Just saying. Why wait for something that may or may not be what you're hoping for. Almost everything currently available is compatible with P3Dv2 or v3. Very few addons do not work. There are some, but generally they are taken care of quickly. Gents, honestly, if you haven't taken the plunge....P3D is where it's at. v3.1 has laid the foundation in features "under the hood". It's the gateway update to some really impressive stuff coming.

I agree with everything you say about P3D, but at least this holds out the prospect of a new sim / upgrade path for the many FSX users who don't qualify to use P3D. Also, maybe, a way back into flight simulation at home if P3D gets too 'professional' down the line.

[StormILM]

I hope not only for Windows 10.

https://news.xbox.com/2016/02/11/dov...-one-in-april/

They stated very early that this will be a Windows 10 only platform and I've seen no revision of that plan to include W7 or W8. My guess is that W10/x64 will allow more room for new features and future expansion.

[Naismith]

They stated very early that this will be a Windows 10 only platform and I've seen no revision of that plan to include W7 or W8. My guess is that W10/x64 will allow more room for new features and future expansion.

If so, then I think that is me done after 22 years of MSFS. Haven't had any games (I tell a lie, I did reinstall Skyrim) on my PC since the "Great Windows 10 Calamity" of October. Lost all enthusiasm and found other things to amuse me.

[bazzar]

Not sure what all the fuss is about frankly. There is absolutely no reason on earth why anything in FSX should be compatible, backwards or anything else. There is no reason why existng FSX productions should be made to be compatible. This is a completely new game and should be considered as such. The only assessment you really need to make is whether it is what you'd like to play or not. Like P3D , Xplane, DCS or any other simulator game out there.

Similarly, you want an XBox game, You buy an XBox.

If the operating system has to be W10/64 than so be it. You either go with that or not. Why do we assume these people have to owe us anything? They have supported FSX to give it a future and will increase its potential. They are introducing a new fun "sandbox" training scenario and now released the master plan for a new simulator. Good for them. And good for us...

[StormILM]

Bazzar, I agree with much of what you noted but to point out what DTG noted thus far regarding forward compatibility, unless something has changed (or may change) they did indicate there was going to be some cross-platform compatibility (much as it was with a number of FS9 models porting well into FSX). It's logical to assume that there will be a number of antiquated addons which are probably not going to make the grade but there is very good reason to migrate higher end models & scenery over to the new Sim. Another reason I believe this is that I read what PMDG noted about upgrading their products for a future 64bit version of P3D. I assume that they would not have made that statement (or hint) unless there was something very significant behind it and I'd further assume they wouldn't want to cut short the sale of their existing product line (for FSX and P3D) by not moving them into 64bit versions of both Sims. Of course re-builds/updates for migration is one thing, I agree that the true point of all this will be to also have a brand new starting point (again, much as FSX gave us what we have now compared to FS9).

Naismith, sorry to hear that. I concluded that I'd stay in W7x64 as long as I possibly can as too many folks have lost use of their Sim due to compatibility issues that were not tested thoroughly nor resolved before many jumped on-board W10. I feel certain though that in this case (as has been with P3Dv3), the guys behind DFS will have beaten the dents out of this Sim well before we get our hands on it. From there, we are a community of problem solvers and thinkers and I feel certain we'll be able to deal with issues as we get settled into the new Sim when it comes out.

[mikew]

Bravo Bazzar... well said!

Mike

[txnetcop]

I agree Baz...it's time for something new, not a throwback to what we already have. FSX is fine and will continue just as FS9 has. I'm looking forward to a whole new flight simulator.
Ted

[Firekitten]

The Windows 10 screaming amuses me... only flightsimmers seem to be upset, but its actually a great OS. Stable, efficient, fast, and runes P3d and Fsx fine... wazza problem?

[Rimshot]

They stated very early that this will be a Windows 10 only platform and I've seen no revision of that plan to include W7 or W8. My guess is that W10/x64 will allow more room for new features and future expansion.

Source please. In the official announcement on their website it says: 'Dovetail Games Flight School and Dovetail Games Flight Simulator will both be available on PC'. No mentioning whatsoever of the sims being released exclusively for Window 10 systems.

[StormILM]

Source please. In the official announcement on their website it says: 'Dovetail Games Flight School and Dovetail Games Flight Simulator will both be available on PC'. No mentioning whatsoever of the sims being released exclusively for Window 10 systems.

This from DTG's Facebook page dated August 7, 2015:
"Dovetail Games At this moment in time we are only targeting a Windows 10 release and are fully focused on creating the best possible flight simulation we can for the PC platform.Whilst we may look into a console release down the line at the moment our efforts are exclusively PC based."

[stansdds]

The Windows 10 screaming amuses me... only flightsimmers seem to be upset, but its actually a great OS. Stable, efficient, fast, and runes P3d and Fsx fine... wazza problem?

Forced upgrade of OS and possibly a whole new computer, that's likely the problem. Same problems when FSX came out. A lot of us, including me, did not have computers that would run FSX. For FSX we all had to upgrade to at least Windows XP. I see the point of focusing development of a new flight sim on Windows 10. MS has stated that Windows 10 will be the last major version of Windows, it will be the base upon which future upgrades and improvements will be made and support for all previous versions of Windows will eventually be dropped. Why code a new sim for old operating systems that MS has said they will stop supporting? FSX has hit a wall with the 32-bit limitation, it's time for something fresh and new, something that can take full advantage of a 64-bit environment and modern hardware.

[n4gix]

This from DTG's Facebook page dated August 7, 2015:
"Dovetail Games At this moment in time we are only targeting a Windows 10 release and are fully focused on creating the best possible flight simulation we can for the PC platform.Whilst we may look into a console release down the line at the moment our efforts are exclusively PC based."

<bang!> B A N G ! That was the sound of DTG shooting themselves in the foot. There's no reason whatever for them to make this a Win10 exclusive title. Win7x64 fully supports DX11 after all! </bang!>

[ncooper]

There is no mention of "exclusive" except here.

They do say Direct X 11, if they had said Direct X 12 then
Windows <10 users might have had cause to worry.

To me the statement is a very long way to say that they are
making a PC version and not a console version.

[StormILM]

<bang!> B A N G ! That was the sound of DTG shooting themselves in the foot. There's no reason whatever for them to make this a Win10 exclusive title. Win7x64 fully supports DX11 after all! </bang!>

Bill, that was exactly my thought when I first read that but then again, DTG has yet to unveil very much about the new sim nor their reason for making that particular statement. As we all know, previous decisions/statements are quite often subject to change. Right now, all we can really do is wait until the details fully materialize and hope that all or most of the bases are covered when it does. I'm optimistic.

[IanP]

Er, Bill... You might want to look up a few facts.

Microsoft are now forcing users to upgrade to Windows 10 if they have automatic updates switched on - which most people do. As simmers, many of us think of ourselves as "computer savvy" but even most simmers install "recommended" updates without looking.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02...n_10_holdouts/

Microsoft stopped "mainstream" support of Windows 7 last month. It's now what is termed a "zombie" operating system, existing without anything but expensive "extended" support.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/lifecycle

Windows 10 has already far surpassed take-up of Windows 8/8.1 (slightly unsurprisingly) so the number of users sticking to 7 or using 8/8.1 is, or very soon will be, far surpassed by those on Windows 10. Also, people have been incorrectly accusing Windows 10 of not running FSX/FSX-SE correctly since the first public releases, in spite of massive evidence to the contrary...

It makes sense to specify Windows 10 - the only MS OS now shipping - rather than what the industry, if not the entire userbase, considers obsolete versions.

Ian P.

[YoYo]

<bang!> B A N G ! That was the sound of DTG shooting themselves in the foot. There's no reason whatever for them to make this a Win10 exclusive title. Win7x64 fully supports DX11 after all! </bang!>

I hope its a joke. I don't want W10 and dont like it.

[hairyspin]

Pardon me. Windows 7 is still supported, and will be until 2020. Patches, security updates etc are still being produced.

[bazzar]

DTG acquired the franchse for FSX and Flight. There's probably a lot more we are not privvy to and should not be. I for one seriously doubt whether anybody with the business potential to do those things with Microsoft would "shoot themselves in the foot" or proceed on such a path without reference to, negotiation with or consultation with Microsoft.You design for the future, not the past.

All I am hearing right now is comment akin to these historical (hysterical?) observations:

Travelling over 20 mph will result in heart failure.
A computer in every home? Science fiction.
Calculators should be banned in schools.
"FSX will never replace FS9 on my computer, that's a fact."

The same rules apply here as with any addition to our hobby. If you don't like what you see, don't buy it. It's not compulsory.

[Adonis]

That's the $50,000 question many want to know. I've heard a number of sources note that every addon from FSX would come to a grinding halt in a 64bit version (supposedly due to gauges and a number of other factors) but I've heard others say that's not necessarily the case or at all. I do take note that FSX and P3D are both 32 bit programs which will run fine on a 64bit OS. I do understand the difference, the addons are built/optimized to run inside a 32bit program but I still believe there is likely a logical (and possibly painless way) to migrate. Maybe I'm wrong on my supposition of the latter but I'm sure this is being looked at and worked on from every conceivable angle. With regards to the question of "why not just go ahead and get P3Dv3"?, my biggest ill (as well as many users) is the VAS limitation and other bugs related to memory, etc. I think DFS is going to pretty much cure all the FSX bugs and open a whole new world of capabilities (if I am reading the tech end of all this correctly). I believe both DFS and P3D will end up sharing a number of common elements and this news (regarding DFS being 64bit from the get-go) seems to parallel the word that P3D will get similar 64bit treatment in due course. I don't think any of us will be disappointed in the end product but I do believe the current FSX user migration will be gradual much as it was for many who changed over from a long use of FS9 over to FSX during the last decade.

Let's make something abundantly clear here: 32bit dll's don't work in 64 bit programs. Either the entire program is 64 or 32bit, you can't mix the two. The 32bit parts need to be rewritten pretty much from scratch to work with a 64bit program.

My only real issue here is if DTG will turn these into DLC fests like they did with their previous stuff and if the program will be optimized specifically for PC, because most games (not to mention Sims) in general are not. Games that are run smoothly with the proper settings for the hardware you have regardless of what happens. For examples of ones that are, look at The Talos Principle and The vanishing of Ethan Carter.

[Tony G]

Why would anyone expect them to release those based on Win7, a legacy operating system? I have win7 for my main gaming system, but run Win10 in my home office, and am seriously considering moving the gaming rig to 10. It's that good.

WinXP was great, but is anyone running it anymore, or expecting developers be focusing on developing for that platform?