Douglas A20 Havoc

***huub vink*** · June 29th, 2016, 11:53

Well there is some interesting reading about differnt bomb sights here: http://www.twinbeech.com/norden_bombsight.htm

Obviously the British used very different bomb sights.

Cheers,
Huub

**Milton Shupe** · June 29th, 2016, 15:54

Originally Posted by huub vink

Well there is some interesting reading about differnt bomb sights here: http://www.twinbeech.com/norden_bombsight.htm

Obviously the British used very different bomb sights.

Cheers,
Huub

Huub,

Yes, well familiar with Taigh's website. He was instrumental in providing pics and data for the AT-11 project including the Martin turret and the Norden bombsight.

I did a very basic sight for the AT-11 as poly limits were a concern.

***Sundog*** · June 29th, 2016, 16:38

I'll check my A-20 book to see what is written about bombardiers station equipment and if they list the differences between the models. Those preview pics look amazing.

**Milton Shupe** · June 30th, 2016, 11:06

Originally Posted by Sundog

I'll check my A-20 book to see what is written about bombardiers station equipment and if they list the differences between the models. Those preview pics look amazing.

Thanks SD. I will likely use the one I built for the AT-11 with some mods.

Just finished modeling gun pods and ports. Wow! Anything to do with guns requires patience and perseverance.

**Blackbird686** · June 30th, 2016, 11:39

This project is coming along very nicely, Milton. I have enjoyed reading and watching about it since you started working on the Havoc. It gives me much more to appreciate what you and your team, as well as other dev's go through when producing a model of this kind of quality. I think of it this way.... If I could watch a team build an XP-74 Superbolt, or an Avia 57 in real life, then having the "boss" hand me the keys and say "Here, take her up and wring her out", something that is never taken lightly by a bloke like me.

Keep em' Flying!

BB686

**nigel richards** · June 30th, 2016, 14:51

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

Thanks SD. I will likely use the one I built for the AT-11 with some mods.

Just finished modeling gun pods and ports. Wow! Anything to do with guns requires patience and perseverance.

And a whole lot of guts.

Gorgeous work, Skipper! :-)

**Milton Shupe** · June 30th, 2016, 18:10

Originally Posted by Blackbird686

This project is coming along very nicely, Milton. I have enjoyed reading and watching about it since you started working on the Havoc. It gives me much more to appreciate what you and your team, as well as other dev's go through when producing a model of this kind of quality. I think of it this way.... If I could watch a team build an XP-74 Superbolt, or an Avia 57 in real life, then having the "boss" hand me the keys and say "Here, take her up and wring her out", something that is never taken lightly by a bloke like me.

Keep em' Flying!

BB686

Thank you Tom. We always appreciate your support and help in testing our work.

Yes, we tend to burn a lot of candles just getting through the basic infrastructure, and some the simple things like gun pods and gun ports that you would think would be easy to do require a lot of hours to do even at my basic level. But the exterior is rather simple compared to the agony of doing the VC in detail as there are no good scale drawings or 3-views for them. They are done at least by me more by sight with very little reference material. I hope what we deliver here is satisfactory. Thanks.

***Sundog*** · June 30th, 2016, 19:22

Basically, my book doesn't state what the early bomb sights were. They basically just like small telescopes pointing straight down to me. It does state that the nose of the A-20J was 7" longer than previous models specifically to accommodate the Norden Bomb Sight. It also states, as many here probably already know, that not many of the A-20's had the bomb sight; that it was typically the lead aircraft that had one and the rest of the planes dropped their load off of the leads drop.

**Milton Shupe** · June 30th, 2016, 19:42

Originally Posted by Sundog

Basically, my book doesn't state what the early bomb sights were. They basically just like small telescopes pointing straight down to me. It does state that the nose of the A-20J was 7" longer than previous models specifically to accommodate the Norden Bomb Sight. It also states, as many here probably already know, that not many of the A-20's had the bomb sight; that it was typically the lead aircraft that had one and the rest of the planes dropped their load off of the leads drop.

Thanks SD. That agrees with my reading as well. I can as a minimum put a base mount in there and save the polys for other things I suppose. We shall see.

Working on the rear gunner's area now. Hopefully I can use the MG I built for the CANT Z1007 or Harpoon as a starting point.

**NathanT28** · July 1st, 2016, 07:25

Looking AMAZING Milton, wish I knew how to model as well as you do. Going to be an AWESOME aircraft!

**Sascha66** · July 4th, 2016, 01:30

Amazing - it keeps gettting better!

**Milton Shupe** · July 4th, 2016, 08:00

Originally Posted by NathanT28

Looking AMAZING Milton, wish I knew how to model as well as you do. Going to be an AWESOME aircraft!

Originally Posted by Sascha66

Amazing - it keeps gettting better!

Thanks for the comments. Sorry this is going slow but much yet to do.

Just getting the upper rear MG in place and animated.

Moving on to the lower MG placement.

**Taco** · July 4th, 2016, 08:57

Milton, looking good, thanks for your work.

Jim

**AussieMan** · July 4th, 2016, 15:21

Originally Posted by Taco

Milton, looking good, thanks for your work.

Jim

Good aircraft for Dudley, Jim

.

**Taco** · July 6th, 2016, 04:39

Rgr. Aussie Man, really looking forward to the Douglas. Seen a few of these during the war years in Southern California. Hehe I was a very young person then.

**Milton Shupe** · July 30th, 2016, 06:38

With the Mallard projects wrapped up, my attention has shifted to the A-20 Havoc full time ..... yeaaaa!!!

I thought that this website provided a good summary of variants and some interesting info so wanted to share:

http://www.americancombatplanes.com/a20_1.html

As for modeling progress, for the A-20-G20 I am wrapping up details in the cockpit.
For the A-20C, I am wrapping up the rear upper gunner's area, and starting on the rear gunner's lower section. That will be followed by mapping the entire aircraft for textures.

Lots to do yet; long way to go, but I am on it now full time.

***huub vink*** · July 30th, 2016, 13:39

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

With the Mallard projects wrapped up, my attention has shifted to the A-20 Havoc full time ..... yeaaaa!!!

Yeaahhh!!!!

That's rally good news Milton!

However make sure you take some rest once in a while! We are greedy, but can be patient when we need to

Cheers,
Huub

***Sundog*** · July 30th, 2016, 19:12

Yeah, what Huub said. Don't over do it. Also, those preview pics look great. I'm definitely looking forward to finally having a good A-20 for FS.

**Milton Shupe** · August 11th, 2016, 09:24

Originally Posted by Sundog

Yeah, what Huub said. Don't over do it. Also, those preview pics look great. I'm definitely looking forward to finally having a good A-20 for FS.

No problem guys; I have kicked back a bit and on occasion try to get a few things done in trying to wrap up the exterior here.

Looking around the exterior for any final changes before I move on.

**lemonadedrinker** · August 11th, 2016, 10:40

Hi,
Just noticed the extraordinary contribution from Mary Babnick Brown (Wikipedia !)to the Norden bombsights.

Milton, this is looking to be another wonderful creation. Will you be able to model a human hair?

Andy.

**Milton Shupe** · August 11th, 2016, 13:58

Originally Posted by lemonadedrinker

Hi,
Just noticed the extraordinary contribution from Mary Babnick Brown (Wikipedia !)to the Norden bombsights.

Milton, this is looking to be another wonderful creation. Will you be able to model a human hair?

Andy.

Thank you Andy; great story.

RE: Human hair: Individual strands of hair range in thickness from 1/1500 to 1/500 of an inch in diameter, depending on the properties of the hair in question. Typically, blond hair is thinnest since it usually does not have a middle layer like dark hair does. Black hair is the coarsest or thickest. In gmax, the smallest exportable size strand is 1/7th of an inch, about .004m (4 millimeters).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Babnik_Brown

**Milton Shupe** · August 14th, 2016, 08:00

Well, I have the bombardier's area appointed the best I can with the references I have.

Also, added the pilot's entry step and animated.

Left to do on the exterior is:

add wing tip lights (smaller for the "C" than the "G"),
add rear belly gunner hatch and MG,
flesh out top cockpit hatch infrastructure and add animated curtains,
add the Bombay doors opening mechanism,
change cowl flaps to "C" style,
and, change exhausts to "C" style.

That should wrap up the exterior on the "C" model.

***wellis*** · August 14th, 2016, 08:36

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

Well, I have the bombardier's area appointed the best I can with the references I have.

Also, added the pilot's entry step and animated.

Left to do on the exterior is:

add wing tip lights (smaller for the "C" than the "G"),
add rear belly gunner hatch and MG,
flesh out top cockpit hatch infrastructure and add animated curtains,
add the Bombay doors opening mechanism,
change cowl flaps to "C" style,
and, change exhausts to "C" style.

That should wrap up the exterior on the "C" model.

looking good sir...I look forward to painting this one when you are finished. :-)