P3D vs. non P3D aircraft

**ST0RM** · July 5th, 2015, 16:45

What errors could one encounter? I'm going through and adding in several that I know that were purpose built with P3D in mind. But I'm curious about older titles. Virtavia C-17, B-1B, etc...

How about helos?

What errors would I see?

Thanks!
Jeff

**fsxar177** · July 5th, 2015, 17:01

In general, an FSX compatible (FSX native) aircraft is by default fully compatible with P3D.

Where the issues arise, are;

1.) When the aircraft is copied over to P3D, rather than installed using the original installer. (You should ALWAYS use the installer, and point to the P3D directory)

2.) When external / hidden files are used in system coding, in an unorthodox / non SDK manner.

3.) When the developer LIES TO YOU to try and make an extra $ with separate installers!! *caution they want in your pants. - Reference; you're wallet.

Other minor common issues, could just be based on your P3D version / hotfix, and might be related to the aircraft calling for a default texture in the FSX/texture/ folder, for which P3D does not include. This is a developer error, and usually only requires the right texture to be copied over for the specific aircraft.

Hope this helps!
- Joseph

**Mach3DS** · July 5th, 2015, 17:26

Originally Posted by fsxar177

In general, an FSX compatible (FSX native) aircraft is by default fully compatible with P3D.

Where the issues arise, are;

1.) When the aircraft is copied over to P3D, rather than installed using the original installer. (You should ALWAYS use the installer, and point to the P3D directory)

2.) When external / hidden files are used in system coding, in an unorthodox / non SDK manner.

3.) When the developer LIES TO YOU to try and make an extra $ with separate installers!! *caution they want in your pants. - Reference; you're wallet.

Other minor common issues, could just be based on your P3D version / hotfix, and might be related to the aircraft calling for a default texture in the FSX/texture/ folder, for which P3D does not include. This is a developer error, and usually only requires the right texture to be copied over for the specific aircraft.

Hope this helps!
- Joseph

Correct. Also with regard to #3...I can 100% confirm this. I've gone ahead and installed 3 titles by the same developer (which will remain nameless out of respect) which are reported as Not p3Dv2 compatible". They are in the current form compatible and I've installed them with no issues. They are a well respected developer and among my favorite developers and addons for FS. So I was surprised to say the least that they were less than honest about the "compatibility". In most cases the only thing "not compatible" is the installer itself and nothing to do with the addon functuonality.

There are legitimate addons which are NOT compatible with P3D from the fsx native versions even when installed into p3d with no problems.

However, unless devs are honest enough to actually tell you the truth about compatibility you'll either have to trust them or try it out to see via trial amd error.

I personally purchased the Estonia Migration tool for ease of use and it's worked flawlessly thus far. I've also moved to a complete P3Dv2 only so for me fsx only exists as a test platform and I've uninstalled most aircraft.

**ST0RM** · July 5th, 2015, 17:43

Thank you for the replies. Looks like I'll be looking forward to many new hours in P3D.

Cheers,
Jeff

**DaveWG** · July 5th, 2015, 22:21

Although most will port over fine, you may find that most devs will not support this, so any problems and you're on your own. They may also restrict use in P3d in the license so although it may work, it's technically illegal.

Portovers may also alias panels or sounds from default FSX aircraft which are not present in P3d.

**donnybalonny** · July 5th, 2015, 22:53

If you fly jetliners or jetprop-liners, you will find addons that does not work fully with P3D. Actually many of them dont work.
There are texture problems and system problems.
Most 100% fsx native GA and similar stuff pop in perfectly well and as said before many of those where you have to pay extra to get a p3d installer works fine if you install the FSX version with the migration tool.
We have reached the point where flightsimming is as commercial as the rest of the world, so the amount of bs and direct lying is at the same level as well. Thats why its very good we have the forums

**Paul Domingue** · July 6th, 2015, 07:03

Originally Posted by DaveWG

They may also restrict use in P3d in the license so although it may work, it's technically illegal.

I find this highly suspect. Any vendor whom would propose such a thing is speaking total rubbish. When you purchase a product it is yours to consume in any manner you wish. You may alter it to suit your needs. You just can not disseminate anything you may have done to the product. You may not complain to the vendor in the event that anything you have done to alter the product has caused you problems. These are basic rights that you have as a consumer.

**fsxar177** · July 6th, 2015, 07:12

Paul is correct. It's Rubbish.

- Joseph

**n4gix** · July 6th, 2015, 07:31

Guys, it's important to keep in mind that due to licensing agreements some developers have with the real world manufacturers of the aircraft they are modeling, they have to make certain statements such as "not licensed for Prepar3D use."

It has nothing at all to do with incompatibility, but is a required "legal fiction" not at all unlike the one L-M are forced to make regarding P3D...

**fsxar177** · July 6th, 2015, 07:47

I think we understand that Bill.. But that's not really the issue..

I quote from one developer...
" the P3D platform has many changes from the FSX platform from flight modelling to display not to mention the totally different model formats."

Oh.. Now the model format is totally different?
Please!?!

- Joseph

***SpaceWeevil*** · July 6th, 2015, 09:24

Originally Posted by fsxar177

I think we understand that Bill.. But that's not really the issue..

I quote from one developer...
" the P3D platform has many changes from the FSX platform from flight modelling to display not to mention the totally different model formats."

Oh.. Now the model format is totally different?
Please!?!

- Joseph

Yes that's nonsense, but in fairness you didn't quote the next bit where the dev tries to help anyway even there was no $$$ in it. Incidentally, I thought his closing point was spot on, about Prepar3D eventually evolving beyond FSX compatibility. I wonder how many of us who have spent so much on scenery, aircraft, weather and lord knows what else for FSX really thought that one through before we jumped on board?

**Mach3DS** · July 6th, 2015, 09:33

I've completely thought it through. which is why I've moved to P3D and not to fsxse. FSX SE will never get the evolution that p3d will have over the lifetime of the product as LM is devoted to it as the platform for fligjt instruction. It can only evolve to not have backward compatibility. in fact v3 may bring that sooner than later.

I'm fine paying for functionality upgrades or for new products...I'm just saying that if you say it doesn't work in p3d because the installer doesn't point to the install path...that's pretty lame.

**DaveWG** · July 6th, 2015, 09:49

Originally Posted by fsxar177

I think we understand that Bill.. But that's not really the issue..

I quote from one developer...
" the P3D platform has many changes from the FSX platform from flight modelling to display not to mention the totally different model formats."

Oh.. Now the model format is totally different?
Please!?!

- Joseph

Models compiled with the P3d v2+ SDK will not work in FSX at all, so in that respect the format is different.

**DaveWG** · July 6th, 2015, 10:04

Originally Posted by Paul Domingue

I find this highly suspect. Any vendor whom would propose such a thing is speaking total rubbish. When you purchase a product it is yours to consume in any manner you wish. You may alter it to suit your needs. You just can not disseminate anything you may have done to the product. You may not complain to the vendor in the event that anything you have done to alter the product has caused you problems. These are basic rights that you have as a consumer.

If you're breaking the EULA, then is that not illegal?
Not trying to get into a legal battle here, just trying to be helpful and make people aware of possible implications.

**fsxar177** · July 6th, 2015, 10:41

Originally Posted by SpaceWeevil

Yes that's nonsense, but in fairness you didn't quote the next bit where the dev tries to help anyway even there was no $$$ in it. Incidentally, I thought his closing point was spot on, about Prepar3D eventually evolving beyond FSX compatibility. I wonder how many of us who have spent so much on scenery, aircraft, weather and lord knows what else for FSX really thought that one through before we jumped on board?

So, it's okay to flat out lie to your customers,as long as you still try to help?

Originally Posted by DaveWG

Models compiled with the P3d v2+ SDK will not work in FSX at all, so in that respect the format is different.

I've been compiling mesh with my P3d 2.+ SDK (64 bit compiler), and using them flawlessly in FSX for most of the last year.

- Joseph

**Paul Domingue** · July 6th, 2015, 10:50

Originally Posted by DaveWG

If you're breaking the EULA, then is that not illegal?
Not trying to get into a legal battle here, just trying to be helpful and make people aware of possible implications.

No battle just a good discussion of the topic.

I guess that question would be better left for a student of contract law. As consumers we have basic rights when we purchase a product. I'm hard pressed to think of any other product that you can't use as you wish unless there are federal or state laws regulating the use of such products such as pesticides and devices that emit electromagnetic radiation to mention a few. IMHO the only right of the developer is protection of their intellectual property from theft for profit. I don't think vendors and developers who add clauses willy nilly to the EULA can honestly expect they will hold water in a court of law in the USA, I don't know about other countries.

***SpaceWeevil*** · July 6th, 2015, 11:09

Originally Posted by fsxar177

So, it's okay to flat out lie to your customers,as long as you still try to help?

No not OK to lie, if it was a lie - but it's OK to make mistakes, we all do that

**DaveB** · July 6th, 2015, 11:57

Originally Posted by fsxar177

So, it's okay to flat out lie to your customers,as long as you still try to help?

I've been compiling mesh with my P3d 2.+ SDK (64 bit compiler), and using them flawlessly in FSX for most of the last year.

- Joseph

Dave did say MODELS compiled to the P3D2+ SDK wouldn't work in FSX.. no mention of mesh (I presume terrain mesh) or any other aspect of the sim. I guess the proof would be to drag a native P3D model into FSX

ATB
DaveB

**Paul Domingue** · July 6th, 2015, 12:10

I've been transferring FSX models to P3D one at a time, it never crossed my mind to do the opposite. I think that's called backing up, in the movement sense.

**DaveWG** · July 6th, 2015, 12:26

Maybe I should have been more specific. P3d native aircraft models (mdl) will not work in FSX. I would assume the same to be true of AI ships, or anything that uses the mdl format, although I haven't tried.
Out of interest, I just compiled the same .X source model in both FSX & P3d formats. The FSX mdl was 11713KB & the P3d mdl was 12509KB.

**fsxar177** · July 6th, 2015, 13:57

Originally Posted by DaveWG

Maybe I should have been more specific. P3d native aircraft models (mdl) will not work in FSX. I would assume the same to be true of AI ships, or anything that uses the mdl format, although I haven't tried.
Out of interest, I just compiled the same .X source model in both FSX & P3d formats. The FSX mdl was 11713KB & the P3d mdl was 12509KB.

Maybe I should have clarified..

Mesh for me = 3d Aircraft model. (.mdl), animated, textured, the whole bit. Even with vertices limits exceeding previous compilers for FSX..

The latest p3d .mdl compilers ARE REVERSE COMPATIBLE WITH FSX.

I'm just going to come right out and say it; some of these guys are intentionally exploiting the confusion surrounding P3D, in efforts to make a few extra shillings. Plus, these marketeers know that many people who will soon switch to P3D, haven't made the full leap yet. So it only makes sense for them to sell the product twice, and then turn around and lean on some 'license' theory, or flat out lie about the make-up of the simulator. After all, the majority of their user base has no idea how this stuff works!

- Joseph

**T Square** · July 6th, 2015, 16:08

Having read this thread very carefully, and with great interest, honestly the same old truth applies here as it does with any other transaction where an exchange of funds for goods takes place "Buyer be Ware"

**Paul Domingue** · July 6th, 2015, 16:39

T Square, was that meant to be a pun if so it went right over my head.

**T Square** · July 6th, 2015, 18:21

Paul

I'm just say'n it's up to the buyer to research the product before they buy it. If I buy a product that says P3D compatible and it is not, shame on the developer for false advertising his product. If I buy from the same developer again and have the same experience again shame on me. I also agree that if for example I buy apples and make applesauce, the guy who grew the apples can't take me to court because his EULA says you can only use his apples to make pie.

**DaveWG** · July 6th, 2015, 22:19

Originally Posted by fsxar177

Maybe I should have clarified..

Mesh for me = 3d Aircraft model. (.mdl), animated, textured, the whole bit. Even with vertices limits exceeding previous compilers for FSX..

The latest p3d .mdl compilers ARE REVERSE COMPATIBLE WITH FSX.

I'm just going to come right out and say it; some of these guys are intentionally exploiting the confusion surrounding P3D, in efforts to make a few extra shillings. Plus, these marketeers know that many people who will soon switch to P3D, haven't made the full leap yet. So it only makes sense for them to sell the product twice, and then turn around and lean on some 'license' theory, or flat out lie about the make-up of the simulator. After all, the majority of their user base has no idea how this stuff works!

- Joseph

Can you point me to a native P3dv2 model to try in FSX please.

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