C-97 BETA now available for download!

***icycle*** · April 27th, 2015, 13:47

Originally Posted by jankees

This is fantastic. Brings back many memories. My 1st airplane I ever set foot in/on was as a 3 year old on a Wis ANG KC97 @ KMKE. Grew up listening to them fly over the house, or better yet, taxi past from the viewing area next to RWY 07 in the 60's-70s. Something about the rumble to those huge engines, and massive props, made them distinct and special from the DC9's, B720s, B707s, B727s, FH-227's, and yes, C-119's found around the airport at that time.

Thanks for the great repaint.

Bill

**Daveroo** · April 27th, 2015, 13:54

im just curious..has there been any updates to the original package?..i mean should i re-download it?..

**DaveB** · April 27th, 2015, 14:00

Dave..

Patch-1 is available on page 7 (post#172) and yes.. I'd download and install it

ATB
DaveB

**WND** · April 27th, 2015, 14:27

Originally Posted by DaveB

One for Manfred I think.. nav radios.

I've been trying to get the AP to follow a nav track rather than blindly letting it do it's own thing with a planned flight and GPS selected. I've noted on previous flights that the localizer/distance gauge often doesn't show TO.. only FROM. Further tests flying from VOR to VOR using nav1 show this still to be the case. For example.. I can setup on the runway at Culdrose, take-off and tune nav1 to the Lands End VOR. On this occasion (always) the FROM/TO arrow flags TO which is correct. However.. flying past the VOR.. the localizer/distance gauge remains at TO and doesn't flip to FROM as you overfly. Tuning to further VOR's on nav1 invariably flags FROM not TO though tuning to an ILS.. it will flag TO. It will not, however, flag FROM if you overfly.

The RMI consistently finds the VOR and points to it. It will also swing as you overfly.. eventually pointing 180 from where it was.

With all this said.. I can't see how you can successfully fly nav to nav using radios.. I certainly can't after days of trying. IF there was a way to switch radios.. eg, use nav1 for ILS and nav2 for navigation using the RMI.. you'd be able to do it. Is nav1 assuming an OBS control to select a radial? I don't know. For sure.. a control switch to select nav1/nav2 active-inactive would solve the problem and by changing 1, 0 to 1, 1 in the cfg would allow you to flit painlessly from one VOR to the next using the nav2 radio (or nav1 were it not slaved to the ILS/distance gauge).

Or.. perhaps I'm barking up the wrong forest

I'm not sure what's more frustrating.. that I can't get it to work or the fact I'll probably never use it if it does!

ATB
DaveB

Dave:

Your not 'barking up the wrong forest' and as far as your frustration goes - I would guess it will be from probably never using it once it gets rectified !!! lol

As it is right now, the RMI works as it should however your #1 VOR - because there is no OBS currently connected to the #1 VOR head, you won't be able to use it as it should be used (I suspect on the next patch it will be fixed). What's happening in your case is it's reacting to the last known radial from either your 'default' flight when you load or the last flight in another aircraft or whatever Microsoft (or P3D) has for a default - and sometimes it just happens to work correctly for ya..

I've got around it temporarily by installing on a 'pop up' an HSI and I've had NO problems tracking nav / gps or anything else !! In fact at this point I haven't found too much with this aircraft that I haven't been able to work around myself - MJ and his team have done a great job so far !! Actually I'm really looking forward to the C-97G !!!!!!!!!!!

As far as putting an OBS on the #2 VOR (or RMI), it's my opinion you really don't want to do that - it currently works as intended - and I really don't think you can use the #2 to track anyways because I don't think the sim will allow that to happen - I think it's just programmed to recognize nav 1 only for stuff like that - altho I might be wrong on that assumption..

All I can say at this point is "hang in there" - it will eventually get fixed !!!

Hope what I have said helps ya..

Bill

**usafvet** · April 27th, 2015, 14:33

Originally Posted by icycle

This is fantastic. Brings back many memories. My 1st airplane I ever set foot in/on was as a 3 year old on a Wis ANG KC97 @ KMKE. Grew up listening to them fly over the house, or better yet, taxi past from the viewing area next to RWY 07 in the 60's-70s. Something about the rumble to those huge engines, and massive props, made them distinct and special from the DC9's, B720s, B707s, B727s, FH-227's, and yes, C-119's found around the airport at that time.

Thanks for the great repaint.

Bill

Bill, I actually worked on the simulator for the KC-97 in MKE. they tried to get me to transfer from Madison, because Madison was losing it's C-131 sim. Great aircraft to ride and fly in, albeit slow and noisy,
you could definetly tell when the jets kicked in. I was lucky enough to get a ride during a refueling mission with the Minnesota ANG, topping off their newly acquired F-4's.

**usafvet** · April 27th, 2015, 14:36

Originally Posted by mjahn

Eric, she should manage 20,000 easily, and does so on my setup, as on Ted's above. She wasn't a good climber though, in real life. Could anything be eating up your power, such as was mentioned, mixture (but you would normally get a warning and prompt from FSX). Also, sometimes it gets very cold up there, so check OAT and perhaps turn the heaters on. If that's not it make a screenshot of the Monitor panels, maybe we can see something there.

Zsolt: is that the box art from the Academy 1/72 plastic model kit? And did you build it?

MJ, yes it is the Academy 1/72. I have built one and have another still in box, untouched. Very nice model... but looks better with the resin add-ons.

**dvj** · April 27th, 2015, 15:15

Anyone working on this paint?

**ejoiner** · April 27th, 2015, 15:31

Originally Posted by dvj

Anyone working on this paint?

Thats a C-97. Not a KC-97. I hope to paint that one like I did for FS9 when the C-97 is created. But, similar livery for the KC would be great!

E

**Mach3DS** · April 27th, 2015, 19:59

**Daveroo** · April 27th, 2015, 21:29

Originally Posted by DaveB

Dave..

Patch-1 is available on page 7 (post#172) and yes.. I'd download and install it

ATB
DaveB

thank you DaveB

***jankees*** · April 27th, 2015, 22:11

Originally Posted by ejoiner

Thats a C-97. Not a KC-97. I hope to paint that one like I did for FS9 when the C-97 is created. But, similar livery for the KC would be great!

E

Yes, it was on my to-do list as well for the C-97.
I did something similar for the KC-97 though:

***stovall*** · April 28th, 2015, 05:42

Jan, you beat me to the post. I just finished downloading your number 187 when I saw Eric's request. Great job as usual.

**DaveB** · April 28th, 2015, 07:55

Originally Posted by WND

Dave:

Your not 'barking up the wrong forest' and as far as your frustration goes - I would guess it will be from probably never using it once it gets rectified !!! lol

As it is right now, the RMI works as it should however your #1 VOR - because there is no OBS currently connected to the #1 VOR head, you won't be able to use it as it should be used (I suspect on the next patch it will be fixed). What's happening in your case is it's reacting to the last known radial from either your 'default' flight when you load or the last flight in another aircraft or whatever Microsoft (or P3D) has for a default - and sometimes it just happens to work correctly for ya..

I've got around it temporarily by installing on a 'pop up' an HSI and I've had NO problems tracking nav / gps or anything else !! In fact at this point I haven't found too much with this aircraft that I haven't been able to work around myself - MJ and his team have done a great job so far !! Actually I'm really looking forward to the C-97G !!!!!!!!!!!

As far as putting an OBS on the #2 VOR (or RMI), it's my opinion you really don't want to do that - it currently works as intended - and I really don't think you can use the #2 to track anyways because I don't think the sim will allow that to happen - I think it's just programmed to recognize nav 1 only for stuff like that - altho I might be wrong on that assumption..

All I can say at this point is "hang in there" - it will eventually get fixed !!!

Hope what I have said helps ya..

Bill

Cheers Bill.. appreciate that

You strive for ages and get to the point where you wonder if you can't see the wood for the trees. Going back to the default Cessna did the trick as I realised almost straight away the lack of OBS was the cause.

I think you're right about the sim only recognising nav1 for linked navigation now you mention it. Your assumption about the localizer flagging TO in the first instance is almost certainly right too. That VOR is very close to my default flight start and almost directly ahead.

Right.. those frustrations aside (and they're put aside now I know it's not only me!!) I can continue to enjoy what is already a very fine model

ATB
DaveB

**DaveQ** · April 29th, 2015, 00:16

Originally Posted by 000rick000

Great one Rick! Now do it with the boom in the slot.....!

DaveQ

**HvyEng** · April 29th, 2015, 04:56

Originally Posted by Daube

One technical question, about the real bird: At what cruise speed was the refueling done ?
I have the A2A Stratocruiser, with Accusim. It's very nice but it's not really "fast". Could it really refuel heavy jets like a Phantom or such ?

Yes, there were only a few aircraft that were not air refueled from the KC-97.

The boom speed envelope for the KC-97 was 260 – 180 KIAS (Max boom speed – Flaps up 45* bank 180K stall speed). As long as the receiver could reach a safe speed within this envelope, they could refuel. The speeds and procedures were given in the 1-1C-1-XX series of manuals; for example, the 1-1C-1-8 was the F/RF-4 AR manual. It lists the cruise and AR speeds for an F-4/KC-97L pairing as 230KIAS at 20,000 feet. There is a maneuver available, called a toboggan, that was designed to keep a slow KC-97 in front of a fast receiver. The tanker/receiver would join and make contact at the top of the AR altitude block (20,000 feet usually), then begin a 300fpm descent to the bottom of the block (usually 2000 feet, or 18,000 feet in this case). They would then disconnect, climb, and repeat until the offload was complete. This was necessary for B-52 AR.

To give some perspective in comparison to modern capabilities, the KC-135 high-speed boom envelope was 330/M.85 – 180 KIAS, the KC-10 was 350/M.88 – 180 KIAS. The need for a high speed boom was proven with the KC-97, but both of the modern tankers still use the toboggan, although for the opposite reason. With the KC-135/KC-10 the toboggan is used to keep a slow receiver in contact, such as an A-10 or heavy C-130.

I’m working on the draft copy of the manual to be included with the release version, it should be available for beta reading in another week or so. It will include elements of tanker join-up and AR speeds for various receivers, as I can find the information.

Another plug for our forums, as this thread grows and grows, a summation of FAQ’s and file updates can be found at: http://teamstrat.proboards.com/

--Dan
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**dvj** · April 29th, 2015, 06:39

Originally Posted by jankees

Yes, it was on my to-do list as well for the C-97.
I did something similar for the KC-97 though:

**ejoiner** · April 29th, 2015, 17:50

Originally Posted by 000rick000

How are you actually doing this? Is the KC-97 set up as AI? I have tacpack and could do that, but how are you doing it?

E

**Mach3DS** · April 29th, 2015, 19:38

Originally Posted by ejoiner

How are you actually doing this? Is the KC-97 set up as AI? I have tacpack and could do that, but how are you doing it?

E

In TacPack ACM, you need to add the KC-97G as a tanker. I won't go into detail about how to do that. but once I did I simply selected the KC-135 profile as the default, as I'm not actually trying to take on fuel at this time. You could get specific info from MJ I imagine...once you add it, you need to make you set the Air to Air Tacan frequency to one whose VHF counterpart end in "XXX.90" (I used 26X = 108.9mhz) that will ensure that you can "request" the boom to be lowered and it will actually lower. You need to set this frequency on the same tab in the TacPack ACM. Once done hit SAVE. Then in once in sim, I simply call up the TP menu from the P3D "ADDONS" drop down.

**ejoiner** · April 29th, 2015, 20:40

Originally Posted by 000rick000

In TacPack ACM, you need to add the KC-97G as a tanker. I won't go into detail about how to do that. but once I did I simply selected the KC-135 profile as the default, as I'm not actually trying to take on fuel at this time. You could get specific info from MJ I imagine...once you add it, you need to make you set the Air to Air Tacan frequency to one whose VHF counterpart end in "XXX.90" (I used 26X = 108.9mhz) that will ensure that you can "request" the boom to be lowered and it will actually lower. You need to set this frequency on the same tab in the TacPack ACM. Once done hit SAVE. Then in once in sim, I simply call up the TP menu from the P3D "ADDONS" drop down.

Thanks. Im familiar with how to do all that. Just wondered if there was an actual AI version of the KC-97.

**Mach3DS** · April 29th, 2015, 21:09

Oh of course! No I'm just using the standard model.

**Aharon** · April 30th, 2015, 06:05

I am trying to find perfect desert environment for ground testing of new Israeli air force KC-97........

Starting engines

Starting to taxi to runway spewing desert sand dust

Roaring down runway spewing desert sand dust

**jandmbear** · April 30th, 2015, 07:45

Would love to see an Angel of Deliverance repaint for this baby!

**DaveB** · April 30th, 2015, 13:17

Originally Posted by ejoiner

Thanks. Im familiar with how to do all that. Just wondered if there was an actual AI version of the KC-97.

Eric.. I saw mention of an AI version on the Tanker Team forum before it was tidied up so all is not lost.. I hope

ATB
DaveB

**mjahn** · May 1st, 2015, 03:39

Yup, there are plans for an AI version.

TacPack fliers can contact me for an as yet unofficial TacPacked version.

DaveB, improved VOR navigation is in the works.

DaveQ, yes I'm interested in your plain paintkit version and stencils. As you have noticed, there are some mirrored surfaces.

**DaveB** · May 1st, 2015, 04:02

Rgr that

ATB
DaveB

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