C-97 BETA now available for download!

[Duckie]

Dave, thanks very much for the AP feedback. Misery loves company, as they say! I will leave the AP alone for now. May try a fresh install later tonight.

Steve

[jankees]

The Spanish Air Force paint can now be found on OZx: http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/...-force-123-03/
I know the real aircraft is a KC-97L, with the additional engines, but that can't be helped..







oh, and if you see US markings shining through from certain angles....that was done on purpose, the real one has that too.
Happy flying

JanKees

[mjahn]

Great paint, Jan. There will be a L version, once we have figured out the jet power settings and sounds. And the engines are on sheet 3 just where the tanks are, so it should only be a small cut and paste job.

I'm having no luck with Speed hold too. No matter what variation I try.. I see the same as you. It throttles right back.. the nose comes up and it stalls. Could be something obvious but at the moment, I sure can't see it.

Yup, speed hold is tricky. I have put a "handle with care" in the Help screen but I agree that's not very helpful. What happens is that once it is activated it will take over throttle to either reduce or increase speed until it reaches the target speed. So you never really want it for a target speed of 0, which is the initial value. Else what happens is what Dave describes. Instead, when already flying at a sensible speed of say 220, mid-click the value and it will set 220 (tooltip: mid-click for current). Only then lower or raise this value as intended (keeping an eye open for what Throttle does). It is pretty much essential for air refuelling ops. Also when ATC tells you to fly at a specific speed, it is definitely a nice thing to have. But you need to check it from time to time.

(Steve I am looking at your screenies. The things that look wrong in screen #4 are Throttle 53 and Props 0 -- those should be 10 and 100. Can you dial them in at this stage? I'll check further though.)

[DaveB]

Hi Manfred

Suspecting a complete throttle back if I left SPEED at 0.. I'd taken the precaution of dialling in a target speed first. I also made sure I was cruising straight and level and as close to my target speed as possible before engaging Speed.. the idea being to give it as little to do as possible. I should have mentioned this in my earlier post When that didn't work.. I tried again.. straight and level.. speed constant. Same thing.. full throttle back.. airspeed decay and pitch up as the AP tried to maintain ALT. I disengaged and tried again.. same routine but this time, I disconnected ALT in case this was in some way interfering with Speed. This time.. it simply throttled back and both airspeed and alt decayed. After a few more goes.. I gave up!

After reading your post.. I shall continue to try. Something obvious might poke me in the eye
ATB
DaveB

[jankees]

a red tail perhaps?

[DaveB]

That's nice Jan.. love the 'go faster' stripe on the wing tanks. I'll take one please

ATB
DaveB

[jankees]

yes, it's amazing the effect a little paint can have..

[DaveB]

Manfred/Steve..

It's amazing what a new day can bring!! Re SPEED hold.. I started the old girl up as I have done many times before.. set my heading and alt up on the placard ready for AP.. lights, action, sound.. you get the message. Took her up to 5K on AP.. set 220kts on the placard (shift+4) then throttled back to match that speed. Now.. the only thing I did different this time was clicked on the CR icon on the placard (I'd not really noticed it before.. bloody TFT's!!!!) which pulled the props back to 80% and the throttles back to their default cruise setting. I then engaged SPEED. Perfect.. no change in engine pitch.. no panic.. no throttle back/nose up.. it worked exactly as it should I'm sure I've pulled the props back to 80% previously.. this is a good cruise setting for many old props.. but can't remember now if that's how I had them set yesterday while frantically trying to get the SPEED to hold.

So.. I'm not sure if hitting CR next to the throttles on the shift+4 placard is a 'must do' to get SPEED to hold on the AP but doing it this way definitely works. From that point.. I was able to adjust the speed at will changing the value on the placard with the mouse. Perrrrrfect

EDIT: Tried it again trying to break it this time. Key to the SPEED holding is prop pitch. These MUST be at 80%. You don't have to use the CR button first but doing so sets the pitch to 80% anyway. Alternatively.. pull the levers back or use the mouse/placard combination. I love it when a plan comes together

ATB
DaveB

[mjahn]

Yes, that's how it is supposed to work, see this screenshot, and she stays rock steady at that here. But it is true I have seen this getting temperamental and go pearshaped before, so your procedure might be worth following. "Cr" is the 'cruise' preset that sets RPM, MAP and TPSI (BMEP) to more or less ideal values with respect to the power placard.

Even though this is a 'Lego' system, as one of the team calls it, it actually gets your plane flying close to the manual. At some later stage I am hoping to get all this stuff into the VC gauges and switches. Or maybe A2A change their mind and make it flyable with their VC, they have got everything in there already. Hate reinventing the wheel...

[mjahn]

Steve, for what it's worth, two screenshots showing (1) before selecting eng 1 and clicking the starter button and (2) after selecting 1, pressing and releasing the starter. This is how it presents itself on my setup.

Before:


After:

[jankees]

It is probably not very well known that the RAAF operated one KC-97 in the late '60's to see if refuelling would be an option for the RAAF, which suffered under the 'tyranny of distance'. They borrowed one from the USAF, registered it A97-1 (what's in a name?) and performed a series of secret tests in the vast interior of the country. In the end, they converted a number of Boeing 707's for the refuelling role.









most people will deny this ever happened of course, which just shows how well the secrecy worked.....

[falcon409]

Why was it necessary that it be under a shroud of secrecy? Seems silly. . . .we need a way to refuel our Military aircraft and we're testing several options. . .done.

[jankees]

I have no idea, honestly...
<label for="rb_iconid_37"></label>

meanwhile, new links to those paints:
ozzie version: http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/...97-raaf-a97-1/
red tail: http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/...-usaf-52-2761/

[Duckie]

Steve, for what it's worth, two screenshots showing (1) before selecting eng 1 and clicking the starter button and (2) after selecting 1, pressing and releasing the starter. This is how it presents itself on my setup.

Before:


After:

MJ, thanks very much for taking the time to look into my issue. My "BEFORE" panel is almost identical to yours (see below). The BIG difference is that you get an engine start when you release the starter button. I do not. My panel remains the same except for the mixture setting which goes from 0 before to 100 after.

Attachment 21955

Attachment 21954

Thanks again for taking a look but since apparently no one else is having this problem, rather than waste your time chasing wild geese, I'll just sit out the BETA and wait for the finished product, eagerly I might add.

Steve

[jandmbear]

[QUOTE=mjahn;948462]Great paint, Jan. There will be a L version, once we have figured out the jet power settings and sounds. And the engines are on sheet 3 just where the tanks are, so it should only be a small cut and paste job.



I am SOOOO looking forward to the L version! Great work guys! I'm not concerned with the bugs at the moment. I know there will be fixes coming down the pipe. I'm just enjoying this master piece!

[jandmbear]

I'm also looking forward to the many repaints for this bird that I'm sure will be coming down the pipe

[DaveB]

Steve..

This is as frustrating for me as it is for you.. believe it or not. I'm still miffed that your 'before' shot shows the mixture at 0% when if the taps are open.. it should be reading 100%. I've tried to duplicate this but I can't. If I ctrl+shift+F4.. the MIX reading goes to 100. Even though your second shot shows MIX at 100.. I'm getting a feeling it's not starting first time because it's got no fuel. Maybe if you try moving the MIX on the engine panel to 100 with the mouse they'll start. Not that it should matter in the slightest but hows about 3421 rather than 1234. It only takes something simple for things not to work as was discovered with the prop pitch setting having to be at 80% before SPEED hold will work.

The answer is there my friend.. I hope
ATB
DaveB

[Duckie]

Steve..

This is as frustrating for me as it is for you.. believe it or not. I'm still miffed that your 'before' shot shows the mixture at 0% when if the taps are open.. it should be reading 100%. I've tried to duplicate this but I can't. If I ctrl+shift+F4.. the MIX reading goes to 100. Even though your second shot shows MIX at 100.. I'm getting a feeling it's not starting first time because it's got no fuel. Maybe if you try moving the MIX on the engine panel to 100 with the mouse they'll start. Not that it should matter in the slightest but hows about 3421 rather than 1234. It only takes something simple for things not to work as was discovered with the prop pitch setting having to be at 80% before SPEED hold will work.

The answer is there my friend.. I hope
ATB
DaveB

Hi Dave. Take a look at MJs "before" screen above. His mixture is at "0" before start but he gets an engine start when he presses the start button and afterwards his mixture shows 100. I "assume", without written or stated instruction to the contrary, that when the start button is pressed the engine start settings are automatically selected and are then displayed after engine start up. I have tried your suggestion regarding ctrl+shift+F4 prior to engine start as well as used the mouse to increase to 100 through the panel all with the same result. I have since deleted it and will try a fresh download and install later on.

Thanks for all your help and concern. It is much appreciated but as I mentioned above it is probably a bad install since I'm the only one experiencing this issue. I'll post the results on the new install as soon as its done.

Cheers!
Steve

[DaveB]

OK mate

I was hoping that as I'd managed to get SPEED to work.. the same good fortune would work it's way in your direction with cold starting but it seems to have got blown off course!! Fingers crossed a fresh install will bring everything to you

EDIT: Yes Steve.. if you cut the engines using the red X and start using the numbers at the top as we've described.. mixture stays at zero until you release the start button and the engine has fired. Oddly.. I've noted that all the fuel levers remain in the off position until the last engine has fired up(No.1). Ctrl+shift+F4 changes that value to 100% before the engines have fired up and the levers all move to on. The end result is the same for me mind.. either version works.

ATB
DaveB

[mjahn]

The realistic procedure would be to set Mixture (and some other items) to 100 first, then press the Starter (see the checklist). Atm the starter routine sets Mix = 100 on its own as soon as you release the Starter button, that is, it does it for you (and probably shouldn't). This is more helpful than it should be, and at other other times (AP Speed) it is less helpful than it could be.

[DaveB]

hahahahaha.. that's why I've always made sure the mixture has read 100% before starting but as tested.. the panel does do it for you. I've no idea why it's not working for Steve.. I can't make it NOT start and this is something I'm not used to!

ATB
DaveB

[jankees]

one last paint before I leave on my fieldtrip:









link to paint

hope you enjoy them so far!

[BendyFlyer]

Jankees, some very interesting high quality repaints. Thanks, liked the RAAF version and the Artic Op Version perfect for the Aleutians.

[BendyFlyer]

MJ and Team

First standard WIN7 64 bit system with FSX Acceleration. ORBX and REX.

The altimeter code corrected the operation of the barometric altimeter, not the RADALT. The pop up panel works as expected and no significant issues for bug testing etc.

Some questions re the simulated systems and the obvious for this generation of aircraft:

No ADF

Will engine controls provide for magneto checks and propeller checks and full operation?

No issues with speed hold or general autopilot operation. Seems smooth and does what is expected.

I did some sim flights to check out the aircraft performance in some critical areas, noted the following:

Aircraft stalls at the placarded speeds BUT visible and hence or simulated behaviour requires correction. Stall buffet is evident via visuals, so correct there. Pre stall and approaching the stall angle (about 14 degrees) aircraft then appears to stall correctly with increasing rate of descent and no increase in forward airspeed NOW the aircraft model does not un-stall as expected or cleanly when power and pitch attitude is changed to provide angle of attack below critical angle and power applied to increase speed, in all aircraft that response is virtually instantaneous but it appears with this model that the stall buffet recommences when un-stalling and the speed change with the angle of attack or pitch change applied and power produces little forward acceleration and a lot of height loss before control and hence a positive rate of climb in an un-stalled condition is achieved. Not sure why this is so as the model behaves correctly when power is brought back to idle in level flight, that is nose drops and yaws to left and pitches up and rolls to right when power is applied in climb, both are correct control responses and nicely done.

I also thought the control column steering wheel movement left and right to be limited and would expect full deflection of the wheel left and right to be normal not the current about 30 degrees. The panel layout and positioning is excellent, it is a weird setup the instrumentation of the C-97 and it does not even follow the basic T set up and the control column in line with the left of the panel, this will take some getting used to.

Will look at assymetric flight later. Hope this helps.

[BendyFlyer]

C-97 on climb from Shemya