Weird CTD issue...
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  1. #1
    Tiller of Soil MaskRider's Avatar
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    Icon22 Weird CTD issue...

    Hi guys,

    I am experiencing kind of a strange phenom.

    If I try to "Fly now" from the free flight start screen to certain airfields I get a couple of error messages and then a CTD. Mind you it is only for certain airfields. At the moment, just one that I am aware of, DEI Kornasoren or any of the airfields on Noemfoor Island. And this was happening before I started reworking it.

    Whats also kind of odd, if I go to some other airfield and do a "world->go to" to Kornasoren or any of the other airfields on Noemfoor, everything is OK.

    Anybody have experience with something like this?

    Below is what the error messages look like. The one on top comes up first, then, if you click "OK", the one on the bottom. If you click "cancel" you just get a CTD.

    Thanks,
    MR

    PS The loading bar gets about halfway accross before the message comes up.

    PPS: If, you do the "world->Go to" to Kornasoren from another airfield and then end the flight and try to "Fly Now" to Kornasoren again from the FF Start screen, it works OK. However, if you close CFS2, open it again and try to "Fly Now" to Kornasoren out of the FF start screen-> CTD.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails cfs2-ctd-message.jpg  
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  2. #2
    SOH-CM-2016 kelticheart's Avatar
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    Unhappy Dreadful!

    Oh, Lord!....

    I got the very same encrypted messages of 'the memory could not be "read"....' everytime I screwed up one of my GG-style exhaust effects, entering wrong numbers for one side of the aircraft vs. the other side. Copy n' paste errors for the sake of cutting down time, which changed a positive number to a negative or even placed two minus signs in front of an effect coordinate.

    I also had the same problem when using a gauge I didn't know it was corrupt. In this case, it was not a constant behaviour, as my CFS2 would either CTD directly to an empty, black screen or spit out such error messages, before locking up altogether.

    I think those CFS2 system messages do not actually mean anything, apart from CFS2 telling you that the error encountered was so unusual that a proper explanation is beyond any CFS2 capability to offer one.

    The problem might not be caused by your new scenery. Have you tried different planes with the same scenery?

    Did you recently change something in those planes, like an updated dp or panel.cfg? Your only option is tracing back carefully what you did before the problem flared up, if you remember it.

    Cheers!
    KH
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  3. #3
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    Icon22

    if you remember it.
    Hehe, not much chance of that happening!

    Thanks for the ideas KH. Yeah, one of these days something is going to click and suddenly a light will go on. Until that day, guess I'll just have to muddle along and live with it!

    I did notice one thing when fooling around with the source files for the old Noemfoor airfields- the runway surfaces were coded incorrectly. But alas, even after correcting the problem persists. At the moment the coding of the Noemfoor airfields is a mongrel mix of old and new. After the rework is complete and all the coding is spanking new perhaps the problem will go away.

    Cheers,
    MR

    PS I don't think it could be the planes. I fly a very limited selection and they have all be set up the same way for ever.
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  4. #4

    MR......

    .......I just tried to go from that field and I get the same result, a CTD. Now I am nowhere qualified to offer a utterance on this subject to you, butttttttt.......... it seems if I try Kamiri or any of the other DEI fields for Noemfoor I get the same result. Those fields are identified in my index as GSL fields. Could there be a problem with the GSL?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fibber View Post
    .......I just tried to go from that field and I get the same result, a CTD. Now I am nowhere qualified to offer a utterance on this subject to you, butttttttt.......... it seems if I try Kamiri or any of the other DEI fields for Noemfoor I get the same result. Those fields are identified in my index as GSL fields. Could there be a problem with the GSL?
    Hiya Fibber,

    Thanks for checking that out.

    The GSL in the name was just a short hand way to identify the scenery as having GSL scenery objects included. Must have been back in the olden days when GSL scenery was a recent development. I can't imagine that it is a issue with the GSL- or a scenery object there in the GSL. There isn't anything special there. Just normal CFS2 scenery objects. One way to find out though would be to fly there with an empty GSL loaded and see what happens.

    I don't think its anything major. Its got to be something really simple. That coding error in the runway surface was odd. Yet it doesnt crash when you go there from another airfield. Its a mystery- for now anyway.

    It does make testing out this new scenery for Noemfoor a bit of a pain.

    Cheers,
    Chris
    "A sandwich and a cup of coffee, and then off to violin-land, where all is sweetness and delicacy and harmony, and there are no red-headed clients to vex us with their conundrums.”

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  6. #6
    You got me thinking about it Chris. Problems here also, but i wouldn't blame the GSL hookup. Like you, i can load it with some "convolutions", but it also conflicts with the '9th FS bases' Kornasoren. Landclass and coastlines are redrawn and the coords are different, puts the 9th FS base in the sea -- an understandable problem that can occur anywhere with two distinct scenery installs. So we know that we can't use this installation with the same sim install containing the 9th FS campaign. Also, i can't get any of the MR DEI_GSL_090912 bases to show in the scenery selection drop down, nor the advanced goto.

    To add further drama, once activated, this entire install is one of the few which causes a new scenery temp file to regenerate every time i load the sim. They have two or three letter names like C1, BA, B3, etc., and they can really add up over time unless deleted. The sim re-indexes with every fresh loading...slow starts not good. Usually indicates a quirky scenery bgl -- airfield, landclass, waterclass, excludes, what have you. Looks like it could have been a good one, but i'm gonna have to put this package on the shelf for now Chris...hope you can find a cure.
    Last edited by bearcat241; March 12th, 2015 at 10:07.

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  7. #7

    Rule out gsl........

    .....MR , you can rule out GSL as a culprit. I tried it with and without GSL and same result....black screen. I will now go back in my corner and sulk.

  8. #8
    Forgot to mention, my CTD's result in a message stating that the error was encountered by the facilities.dll module, which definitely indicates a bgl issue.

    "If you're in a fair fight, you didn't plan it right"


  9. #9
    Tiller of Soil MaskRider's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback and information Bearcat241.

    MR
    "A sandwich and a cup of coffee, and then off to violin-land, where all is sweetness and delicacy and harmony, and there are no red-headed clients to vex us with their conundrums.”

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  10. #10

    Unhappy about "bad" bgls & hard code runway total ...

    MR,

    I got a similar thing when I redid your Woleai airstrip as part of my Carolines scenery. I couldn't QC or FF from it (CTD on loading scenery), but I could spawn away from it & then fly to it & land?
    In the end I assumed it was some mistake in the bgl (but I couldn't find it), or simply that CFS2 didn't like the idea of a runway crossing the corner intersection of LOD scenery areas (IIRC).

    BC,

    I had the issue you describe quite some time ago. I would create new airstrips & they wouldn't show. Then I noticed CFS2 "growing" temp scenery files, each time I ran the game. I concluded the hard code limit of 200 runways was the issue.
    Once you get to 200 runways+, I see the following effects:

    Free Flight & Quick Combat can be used, but not all runways show
    The temp scenery files start to show - I think this is a correctly configured scenery.cfg forcing the game to make "additional" scenery files for use in the game.

    So just like the 100 aircraft limit, you can happily fly missions & campaigns, but Mission Builder is a bust, & QC & FF begin to show "issues".

    I tried to reduce the number of runways & "live" scenery layers, but I don't think I ever got the temp files to stop being created. In the end I started a fresh install & added enough runways to stay below 200. I'm afraid I concluded that multiple installs were the way to go.

    Not sure this helps any, but at least you have an idea why you're seeing what you're seeing...

  11. #11
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    Usually indicates a quirky scenery bgl -- airfield, landclass, waterclass, excludes, what have you...Beartcat 241.
    Ok. I think Bearcat hit on the issue- although there may be some other glitches going on that I am unaware of. But for now, the CTD issue at Noemfoor is resolved. I found the culprit.

    Part of my LWM scenery install includes placing 1 and possibly 2 different types of scenery bgls directly into the main CFS2 Scenery folder. These two types of bgls are usually named wm_scenery_name.bgl and 0_scenery_name_xcld.bgl. The first is the bgl that wipes out any existing land at the scenery location. The second is the exclude file that wipes out any stock CFS2 roads, rivers, shorelines- whatever. I usually put a 0 at the beginning of the xcld.bgl name so that it will be the first to load.

    Just to see what would happen, I deleted all of the these bgls from the main CFS2 Scenery folder.

    After doing so, I started CFS2 and was able to go to Noemfoor in FF no problem. Yey!! Plus, Bearcat241, CFS2 started much faster than usual!

    So, now I knew that one of those deleted files was causing the problem.

    I started a trouble-shooting routine of closing CFS2., adding the files back into the main CFS2 Scenery folder in blocks of 10 at a time, restarting CFS2, doing a "fly now" in FF to Noemfoor and waiting for a CTD to happen.

    After the second reload of 10 files I got a crash! So then I started eliminating each of this last group of 10 bgls one at a time until I got a clean FF to Noemfoor.

    Turns out the guilty party is a bgl named 0_noemfoor_xcld.Bgl. The date on the file is 11/21/2006.

    Its likely that this is the only version of the file that currently exists since there wouldn't have been any logical reason to ever make another. I don't know if it was just this particular file or if it is an objection CFS2 may have with any sort of xcld file at this location- can't imagine such a thing- but I will make a new one and see what happens.

    But for now if anyone who cares to take the time to dump this file from their main scenery folder would do so and post the results I would appreciate it!

    Thanks

    Cheers,
    MR

    BTW I went ahead and added the rest of the deleted wm_ and 0_ bgls back into the main Scenery foldder an all is still well. So, at least for now, problem solved.

    PS: I don't think I will make another since that xcld was made for back in the pre-Rhumba mesh and masks days and was meant for getting rid of stock CFS2 roads, rivers and shorelines. No need for it now.
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  12. #12

    Hi MR,

    Well I can verify your findings. Removing 0_noemfoor_xcld.Bgl solved the problem on my rig.

    Initially the application error for me was, "Application Failure cfs2.exe 7.50.0.917 in terrain.dll 7.50.0.9 17 at offset 0000d3e9.. yadda yadda."

    Not anymore.

    Dave

    PS; Now my install is also creating a ppath file. Not sure what this file is, but my other installs that are working correctly always creates this file.

  13. #13
    Tiller of Soil MaskRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvslats View Post
    Hi MR,

    Well I can verify your findings. Removing 0_noemfoor_xcld.Bgl solved the problem on my rig.

    Initially the application error for me was, "Application Failure cfs2.exe 7.50.0.917 in terrain.dll 7.50.0.9 17 at offset 0000d3e9.. yadda yadda."

    Not anymore.

    Dave

    PS; Now my install is also creating a ppath file. Not sure what this file is, but my other installs that are working correctly always creates this file.
    Thanks for checking it out, Dave. I appreciate it!

    MR
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  14. #14
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    Icon22 Noemfoor emerging from the fog of the CTD Twighlight Zone!

    Kornasoren in the foreground. Kamiri in the distance. Still have quite a bit more to do on Kornasorent- but the really challenging part is finished. One more airfield, Nambir, still to add. It will be way off around in the distance to the left. Its and easy one- just an emergency strip- nothing elaborate.
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  15. #15
    Progress...keep us updated

    And i can always modify my 9th FS campaign to use any of your bases that conflict with the defaults.

    UncleT, i experienced the same barrier for the first time some years ago when i overloaded my first Med-NAfrika install with a buggy Italia 1SMV Scenery package. I think i was up to 64 layers at the time and the Italia 1SMV was the last straw for CFS2. I also concluded that there was a HC limit, so i reduced the layers to something like 20 for good measure. It was a start, but the Italia 1SMV package still wouldn't work despite everything i tried. But going back to what you said about the temp files continuing to regenerate even after cleanup measures, the remedy for that is to also delete all of the database index files in the main folder. Keeping them is forcing the sim to use leftover references to the old databases.

    "If you're in a fair fight, you didn't plan it right"


  16. #16
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    Bearcat241, UncleTgt, gentlemen,

    I did a massive cleanup of my CFS2 install night before last. One of the things I did was to relocate a folder, My Terrain, from the CFS2 parent folder to the FSSC parent folder. I use My Terrain as my scenery testing folder. FSSC compiles to it and before I moved it I test flew new scenery from it. The move created one extra step. I now need to copy the freshly compiled bgls from the FSSC location to the CFS2 scenery folder I am working with. An extra step, but I thought it would help clean up some of the clutter. In any event, somehow or other for reasons I don't comprehend, CFS2 has figured out the path to My Terrain's new location and keeps creating an entry for in the scenery.cfg file as well as a filelist.dat file in the My Terrain/scenery folder itself- way over in the FSSC folder!

    Question 1: What in the ...?

    Question 2: Where do I find the database index files you mention so that I can delete them? What are they called?

    Question 3: How do you know that these tmp files you mention are being generated? Does some sort of message appear on the screen. Is there someplace you go to look for them?

    Thanks
    MR
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  17. #17

    Bearcat........

    ...... deleting the index files in the main folder is something that I learned from TR many moons ago and do routinely. Posted it here in a TIPS section awhile back but I guess it was lost in time. Making the engine rebuild the indexes also seems to speed up the loading of the game.
    I guess a batch index file remover wouldn't be a bad idea.

  18. #18
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    Hehe, Ok.

    So, I am guessing that these are the database index files you refer to?

    Just delete them and CFS2 will rebuild them?

    Thanks,
    MR
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails cfs2indexfiles.jpg  
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  19. #19

    MR.......

    ........ as they saw in some parts of this country ( or used to anyway) "YEPpers!!!

  20. #20
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    Yep, I got it. Wasn't purposely trying to be obtuse. ;^)

    MR
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  21. #21
    SOH-CM-2016 kelticheart's Avatar
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    Automatic cleanup of the *.dat files

    Quote Originally Posted by bearcat241 View Post
    Progress...keep us updated

    And i can always modify my 9th FS campaign to use any of your bases that conflict with the defaults.

    UncleT, i experienced the same barrier for the first time some years ago when i overloaded my first Med-NAfrika install with a buggy Italia 1SMV Scenery package. I think i was up to 64 layers at the time and the Italia 1SMV was the last straw for CFS2. I also concluded that there was a HC limit, so i reduced the layers to something like 20 for good measure. It was a start, but the Italia 1SMV package still wouldn't work despite everything i tried. But going back to what you said about the temp files continuing to regenerate even after cleanup measures, the remedy for that is to also delete all of the database index files in the main folder. Keeping them is forcing the sim to use leftover references to the old databases.
    Gentlemen,

    just my two cents, particularly for you BC because we both use the same Jean 'Bomber' Cornichon's multi-theatre method.

    I inserted in all of my batch files that switch theatres the DOS 'delete *.dat' command for every CFS2 subfolder involved. Including all of the external scenery files.

    In this way, each time I switch theatre, I get a full cleanup for the same money of all CFS2 index files that can get a real pest. Since at the end of each batch I also entered the 'start cfs2' command, CFS2 obediently does all of the household cleaning and re-indexes everything anew before starting up. It's better than owning one of those floor cleaning robots!

    The nicest thing is that I do not have to remember to do it everytime! I only have delete the specific *.dat whenever I install a new dp object, or new weapons, or a new addon scenery.

    Whoever does not use this multi-theatre method, can always create a simple DOS batch file that does the same cleanup each time CFS2 is started. It won't hurt anything.

    Perhaps you all have it in place already, if not, you might want to consider doing it as well. It's very handy.

    I have a question: where does CFS2 accumulate temp files when something goes bad? In the default C:\WINDOWS\TEMP subfolder?

    Cheers!
    KH
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  22. #22
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    Hi KH,

    That sounds like a great idea to me. Not being, but soon to become, a multi-theatre install kinda guy, I have honestly never heard of such a thing. I have different start-up-icons that allow me to start CFS2 with the GSL of my choosing but that is as far as I have ever moved along the evolutionary scale.

    Can you please post an example of what the batch file looks like?

    When starting CFS2 do we just click on the batch file icon instead of the CFS2 game icon and the batch file then takes care of all the cleaning up as well as starting the game in whatever configuration we choose?

    And thank you for asking again just where those tmp files accumulate. I asked once before further up in the thread but it must have got lost in the shuffle someplace.

    Thanks,
    MR
    "A sandwich and a cup of coffee, and then off to violin-land, where all is sweetness and delicacy and harmony, and there are no red-headed clients to vex us with their conundrums.”

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  23. #23
    Well actually i dumped the multi-install method back when i upgraded the hard drive and expanded the sims/games partition. I now have multiple standalone installs, which i like sooo much better because i don't have to concern myself with batch files and so many other nuances associated with the method...its still a good idea if one is tight on disk space.

    Temp files accumulate in the main CFS2 directory. They generate no error popups, just a benign popup that says the sim is rebuilding the scenery database.

    "If you're in a fair fight, you didn't plan it right"


  24. #24
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    And these temp files accumulate in the main CFS parent folder? Hehe, I swear BC241, I don't have a single solitary temp file in my main cfs2 folder. Not a single one. Yet, when making/tweaking new scenery, as I am currently doing, I routinely am swapping scenery files in and out, deactivating and reactivating scenery folders and doing mass-deletions of filelist.dat files. I see "rebuilding scenery database" messages in my sleep. My scenery database gets rebuilt many times during the course of a scenery building day and yet, not a single temp file (that I can recognize as such) seems to have accumulated in my main cfs2 folder. That is why I was asking. No matter where looked, I couldn't find one. Do they have a .tmp file extension? You suggested that CFS2 rebuilding the scenery database is caused by an error? I never realized that rebuilding the scenery base was something that CFS2 did as the result of encountering an "error". I have been under the assumption, that cfs2 routinely rebuilds the scenery database whenever it encounter changes, like when one is swapping newly tweaked scenery files in and out, deactivating and reactivating scenery folders, and deleting filelist.dat files. No?

    BTW, that set-up yours sounds ideal. I am still muddling along back in the dark ages by comparison. But then again I have never been much of a campaigner. I use CFS2 mostly as a free-flighter. Although I do enjoy building missions and the scenery it might take to make them happen. Just saying that my hardware needs are relatively modest.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    Cheers,
    MR

    BTW, find attached an image showing the most recently accumulated files in my parent CFS2 directory (next most recent are 5 days ago).. Those are what was left behind after a day of testing and tweaking scenery.
    Does anything there seem out of whack?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails latestcfs2-parentdirectory-files.jpg  
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  25. #25
    Nothing wrong in that picture. You're supposed to have the index files and everything else shown, with the exception of the gsl-related cfg file, which can be put anywhere. The index files are just a collection of record catalogs for your entire bgl library, i.e. facilities, weapons, runways, infrastructures, etc. These are built, monitored and maintained by the internal code of the cfs2.exe file. When you load the sim via the exe, it examines these files and crosschecks them with all the bgls and filelist.dat's present. If there are any discrepancies or any new additions, it re-indexes accordingly. That's what the "rebuilding scenery database" message is all about. It also does this if you delete a single filelist.dat or run a batch file to delete multiples.

    As for the temp files, don't stress about not seeing any. These are symptomatic of an underlying library error or an out-of-bounds issue as UT and i touched on above. If you don't have the temps, its all good. Since no two guys have the exact sim setups, its hard to duplicate the conflicts that create the "error temps" scenarios.

    "If you're in a fair fight, you didn't plan it right"


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