Forrestal Class Carrier

[Bjoern]

Why all the negative attitude (Bah Humbug) towards CAG aircraft. It adds some ambiance and a realism effect to it all.

Because it's much more work for the modeler and opens yet another can of worms. ("That CAG composition is incorrect!" "I want a configuration from cruise xy!" "Why no separate landing and takeoff configurations?", etc blah blah...)

FYI, I was there in July 1967 and witnessed USS Zippo burn, her "bugs and turkeys" burned too. I was on the USS Bon Homme Richard when we had just loaded/launched the last sortie to North Viet-Nam to conclude our nine month cruise. Suddenly, we start chugging full steam toward the FID to assist here. She was to be our relief but "Big Navy" had to find another carrier to relieve us so we could go home to the USA to be with our families. Ironically, The USS Zippo was the last ship (Sea duty) I was assigned to.

Must've been a sight to behold. How much longer did you have to stay on station to make up for the unavailable carrier?

No Bugs and Turkeys on deck at that time. Probably mostly Rhinos, Scooters and Whales. (With the odd whatevertheRA-5wascalled thrown in.)

[ejoiner]

Because it's much more work for the modeler and opens yet another can of worms. ("That CAG composition is incorrect!" "I want a configuration from cruise xy!" "Why no separate landing and takeoff configurations?", etc blah blah...)



Must've been a sight to behold. How much longer did you have to stay on station to make up for the unavailable carrier?

No Bugs and Turkeys on deck at that time. Probably mostly Rhinos, Scooters and Whales. (With the odd whatevertheRA-5wascalled thrown in.)

Since I was unfamiliar with the terms "USS Zippo" and "FID" i did a wiki search on the Forrestal. The wikipedia entry for CV-59 is very interesting reading. its too bad this carrier wasnt preserved as a museum or at least, like Oriskany, made into a reef, though I see both were considered or attempted unsuccessfully.

[WombRaider78]

I would like to do some deck configurations on each ship. If anything, just generic period-era aircraft. Finding low poly models to use would be my only hurdle. Again, perhaps Gary can let me have access to his statics. Modeling a ship was a pain in the ass enough. I cannot fathom the work it takes to model a plane.

I am glad that folks are enjoying my work.

[gray eagle]

Since I was unfamiliar with the terms "USS Zippo" and "FID" i did a wiki search on the Forrestal. The wikipedia entry for CV-59 is very interesting reading. its too bad this carrier wasnt preserved as a museum or at least, like Oriskany, made into a reef, though I see both were considered or attempted unsuccessfully.

The ship was affectionately called "The FID", because James Forrestal was the first ever Secretary of Defense, FID standing for "First In Defense". This is also the slogan on the ship's insignia and patch. She was also informally known in the fleet as the "USS Zippo" and "Forest Fire" or "Firestal" because of a number of highly publicized fires on board, most notably a 1967 incident in which 134 sailors died and an additional 161 were injured.




The term FID used for the Forrestal was also coined to mean First in Drugs; I remember there being a serious drug issue when I was there.
The ships security teams (Master at Arms) used drug sniffing dogs thru out the ship, especially in the berthing compartments.
When the ship was anchored at various ports of call, I remember taking a returning liberty boat and would have to climb ladders rigged from the fantail section.
There at the base of the ladder well were trash cans (last chance) for those to dispose of illegal drugs. That idea proved to be worthless as it did not stop
the drug issue. FYI, all the ladders on the ship were inclined at 68 degrees.

[gray eagle]

I would like to do some deck configurations on each ship. If anything, just generic period-era aircraft. Finding low poly models to use would be my only hurdle. Again, perhaps Gary can let me have access to his statics. Modeling a ship was a pain in the ass enough. I cannot fathom the work it takes to model a plane.

I am glad that folks are enjoying my work.

I know I am, and really appreciate what you do.

What ever period aircraft you decide to use will be appreciated. Naturally, I hope you decide to put a few aircraft from the 79-81 era.

I can always "Borrow" the helo (SH-3) that is used with the Big E (Plane guard) and marry that up with the FID.

[gray eagle]

At last, a little "Company" on the FID.

[WombRaider78]

At last, a little "Company" on the FID.

Nice shots.

[Bjoern]

I would like to do some deck configurations on each ship. If anything, just generic period-era aircraft. Finding low poly models to use would be my only hurdle. Again, perhaps Gary can let me have access to his statics. Modeling a ship was a pain in the ass enough. I cannot fathom the work it takes to model a plane.

Search on Flightsim for "Guy Diotte". I've found a SLUF (A-7), Hump Scooter (Late A-4), Hoover (S-3B), Sterile Arrow (EA-6) and a Rhino (F-4). Put those you want in a .bgl library and attach them to the deck like you did with the default vehicles.
Might need a bit of paint to reflect the proper operator, but you can leave that to those who want their deck crowded.

The term FID used for the Forrestal was also coined to mean First in Drugs; I remember there being a serious drug issue when I was there.
The ships security teams (Master at Arms) used drug sniffing dogs thru out the ship, especially in the berthing compartments.
When the ship was anchored at various ports of call, I remember taking a returning liberty boat and would have to climb ladders rigged from the fantail section.
There at the base of the ladder well were trash cans (last chance) for those to dispose of illegal drugs. That idea proved to be worthless as it did not stop
the drug issue. FYI, all the ladders on the ship were inclined at 68 degrees.

So what was the drug of the day back then? Opium and MJ?

[gp183601]

Perhaps Gary could modify my package, or allow me to "borrow" his statics from his awesome Midway carrier.

Catching up on some of the threads here and noticed this request. I'm working on an RN vessel at the moment (posting pics on flying stations), and a revamped Essex class so I probably don't have time to modify your carrier....besides you're doing a cracking job.

Providing statics however...no problem. Happy to package up my Tilly crane and flight deck tractors for you to use. Can also pass you the F-4 and A-7. Tried to optimise the aircraft as best as I can but they are frame rate heavy when added in large numbers so I would advise experimenting with deck configurations.

I'm currently working away from home at the moment so I haven't got access to the files. Drop me a PM to let me know where you want the statics sent and if you're okay with the wait I'll send them this weekend.

Do you want the statics in .skp format so you can add them to the build?

All the Best
Gary

[WombRaider78]

Catching up on some of the threads here and noticed this request. I'm working on an RN vessel at the moment (posting pics on flying stations), and a revamped Essex class so I probably don't have time to modify your carrier....besides you're doing a cracking job.

Providing statics however...no problem. Happy to package up my Tilly crane and flight deck tractors for you to use. Can also pass you the F-4 and A-7. Tried to optimise the aircraft as best as I can but they are frame rate heavy when added in large numbers so I would advise experimenting with deck configurations.

I'm currently working away from home at the moment so I haven't got access to the files. Drop me a PM to let me know where you want the statics sent and if you're okay with the wait I'll send them this weekend.

Do you want the statics in .skp format so you can add them to the build?

All the Best
Gary

That would be awesome Gary. I can take the .skp for the statics. I will PM you this weekend.

Thanks
Raider

[navy81]

I took a little time to recently paint the statics for Gary's Midway aircraft - VF-151 (F-4's), VA-93 (A-7) and VA-115 (A-6). I'd be happy to provide in the skins section with Gary's permission and if there is interest. For the Forrestal (series), I'd be happy to take that on as well, though it would take some time for four carriers. Wondering where low poly Tomcat statics can be found, so that both a 60's-70's era Air Wing as well as an 80's-90's Air Wing could be configured, depending on what the user would be flying at the time (kind of like the Enterprise with both and 80's and 90's Air Wing).

Final points - Thanks so much for expanding the fleet! Some day - America and JFK, and hopefully expanded Oriskany's to inlcude Hancock, Tico, and Bonnie Dick.
First screenie (yeah i know, no Tomcats on Midway...) shows VA-93 and VF-151, second one shows VA-115.
Cheers, Deke

[gray eagle]

For the Forrestal (series), I'd be happy to take that on as well, though it would take some time for four carriers. Wondering where low poly Tomcat statics can be found, so that both a 60's-70's era Air Wing as well as an 80's-90's Air Wing could be configured, depending on what the user would be flying at the time (kind of like the Enterprise with both and 80's and 90's Air Wing).

I'd be for that Navy81; Offer something similar like the Big "E" offers, 80's 90's era air wing. For the 80's; I'd like to see CVW-17 AirWing.

[Mickey D]

Yup.. it's certainly nice to have the option. Much depends on the deck models though. The Flying Stations Ark Royal IV (for example) only has a parked deck option in FSX (it had both in FS9). Sadly.. the poor girl shows her age now but would look less dated if the parked aircraft were gone. This goes for land based statics too. Models without ground shadows look so naff these days but folk still shove them out. Looking at screenies of SDB's latest release (Whiteman AFB), there are a lot of these in evidence. It just doesn't work for me

Anyhoo.. yup.. having a choice is desirable but if the only choice is with parked models.. having none at all is often better

ATB
DaveB

As I'm sure you know static shadows are switched on/off in the sim Dave. That goes for ALL ours too. IIRC I took the screenies on my old system and the sim runs faster without shadows. Just forgot to switch them on for the shots that's all. Just to put the record straight

[gp183601]

I took a little time to recently paint the statics for Gary's Midway aircraft - VF-151 (F-4's), VA-93 (A-7) and VA-115 (A-6). I'd be happy to provide in the skins section with Gary's permission and if there is interest.

Hay Deke,

I really don't enjoy doing textures so I was hoping someone would pick this up! I've got no issues with it so feel free to paint and share away!

Cheers
Gary

[DaveB]

Yo MD

Actually.. that isn't the case and certainly not with the Ark Royal IV's deck models (and others). I load up Ark and the models have no shadows. I load up Victorious and the models have shadows. There's a function/option in SAMM2 when saving a model to save it with or without ground shadows. I'm not talking about scenery casting shadows. Cast your peepers back at Gary Summons original FSX VFR Airfields series. His statics here were much like the old FS9 versions (eg shadowless). Check out the latest versions (with the advent of Vol1 v2) and many of the statics have been remade with ground shadows. I never use the scenery cast shadows option as by and large, I think it looks naff but each to their own

EDIT: To make it a little clearer.. here's a shot of what I mean. The Cub has yet to have a make-over and you can see how odd it looks shoved in with the models that have ground shadows built-in



ATB
DaveB

[fsafranek]

The deck eye candy on the Big-E do have shadows. Same with the original FS9 version. If we were to do an NAS scenery using those aircraft again they would have shadows as well -- it is built in to the model. Might look weird if there was a mix of them and AI's not casting shadows though.

[DaveB]

Cheers Frank.. we crossed in the post. MD is obviously more confused than previously thought

ATB
DaveB

[WombRaider78]

Still looking forward to using Gary's statics and tilly on my ships.

Anticipating the planes, I added specular mapping to the ships. The result turned out great, and will be included in the update with the static aircraft.

[delta_lima]

A small request, with all this talk about statics:

While the majority would prefer some statics, I'm wondering if there could be even one hull number (doesn't matter which) with a "clean" deck. By that, the Tilly crane, but no a/c. That enables the carrier for use in either CARQUAL - where there were few birds on deck, and/or a much earlier angled deck period, (Cuban Missile Crisis era, etc).

No biggie if can't be done - but that would be most excellent if possible.

Kind regards,

dl

[WombRaider78]

A small request, with all this talk about statics:

While the majority would prefer some statics, I'm wondering if there could be even one hull number (doesn't matter which) with a "clean" deck. By that, the Tilly crane, but no a/c. That enables the carrier for use in either CARQUAL - where there were few birds on deck, and/or a much earlier angled deck period, (Cuban Missile Crisis era, etc).

No biggie if can't be done - but that would be most excellent if possible.

Kind regards,

dl

I was planning on having clear decks too.

[expat]

I was planning on having clear decks too.

Super! Thanks.

[delta_lima]

Super! Thanks.

+1 - great news.

dl

[Mickey D]

Cheers Frank.. we crossed in the post. MD is obviously more confused than previously thought

ATB
DaveB

Not confused at all Dave. You referred to the Whiteman screenies and so did I. The Big E deck candy have built in shadows. Different beastie.

[DaveB]

Have you missed the point or have I MD?? Your statics in the Whiteman scenery don't have ground shadows.. they'd look better if they did.. without having to resort to scenery casting shadows. I illustrated this with my screenie

ATB
DaveB

[WombRaider78]

Gary graciously sent me his A-7, F-4, Tractor, and Tilly crane. I tooled around with ways to attach them to the ships. I also added some specular texture to the static models. I found an A-6 from another freeware 3D download site. It is really low poly, and VERY frame friendly. I folded the wings and added the landing gear today.

Here is a good shot of some statics on the deck.




Thanks Gary for lending me the statics.