For our American contingent...a physics question

[Rami]

Hey guys,

Nothing to do with CFS2, but since this is my primary hangout, I thought I'd make one thing clear for us Americans.

http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id...mpionship-game

Given the news this morning regarding "deflate-gate," If it is true that Belichick or a member of the Patriots was involved with the deflating of footballs before the AFC Championship Game, I will officially rescind my Patriots fan status and rekindle my love of the Buffalo Bills, which has gradually smouldered, but not been extinguished, since my move to the Boston area in 1988.

I gave them one chance after "Spygate," figuring that having the coach getting his hand caught in the cookie jar once would be enough to keep him straight. The eligible / ineligible receiver stuff I can live with, because that is within the bounds of the NFL rules.

However, it's my understanding that the game balls were tested inside at a temperature of 72 degrees Fahrenheit, and that it was 52 degrees at game time. According to what I remember from physics and meteorological factors, a ball under those conditions will lose 1 pound of pressure for every ten degree drop in temperature.

This leaves me with two fundamental questions...

1) Does anyone know whether or not the referees check the pressure of the balls outside, in the ambient air temperature?

2) If not, would the balls be chronically under-inflated in cold weather?

Sad times here in New England this morning...

[Shadow Wolf 07]

2. At lower pressure the air molecules move slower and therefore exert less pressure on the skin of any container. The change to a lower pressure is detectible but probably so little that a hand held device would hardly notice the difference unless there was a significant difference in the temperatures of the inflation area and the lower temp outside.

[bearcat241]

1. Apparently they don't check...there's nothing in the regs that require them to as a part of their on-field activities unless they suspect foul play in the game.

2. If this were the case, wouldn't BOTH teams have the same ball deflation advantage, since all balls on both sides of the field are exposed to the same temps.

3. Check this if you haven't already: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/deflati...080638511.html

[Devildog73]

Once a cheater-always a cheater.

Belichick will always look for covert ways to cheat because his personality demands that he win no matter what.

People like him can never play on a level, equal footing with others. Losing is not an option, therefore he cheats.

When he gets caught cheating, he never admits it, it is always someone else's fault, his cheating becomes more covert.

[Rami]

Once a cheater-always a cheater.

Devildog73,

I can't fault you for the scorned spouse mantra. I have a hard time faulting you at this point. It makes me embarrassed and frustrated as a fan.

[Blood_Hawk23]

First off, the refs handle the ball every down. So if they feel the balls are under inflated, they can refuse the ball and get a new one. How many plays were in the first half. They had that many chances to fix it.

Next, if the Balls were under inflated the first half and at normal pressure for the second, then Brady does better with the correct pressure. Which only makes sense. Thats what they practice with.

Did anyone watch the episode of Myth busters with the helium inflated footballs? If not I suggest you do. After watching it you'll see that this is all nonsense.

If the officials are that stupid to allow the game to be played like that, then they are the ones that are at fault.

[ViperPilot2]

Even if the footballs were under-inflated... I think Indianapolis needed more help than that to even stay close with New England.

I'm just glad the Broncos got knocked out by the Colts. If Denver played NE the result would have been much worse, adding more insult to injury.

[Rami]

Even if the footballs were under-inflated... I think Indianapolis needed more help than that to even stay close with New England.

I'm just glad the Broncos got knocked out by the Colts. If Denver played NE the result would have been much worse, adding more insult to injury.

Viperpilot,

True, but that's not the point. Prior to Spygate, the Patriots were envied for their continued success, but it was on the level. After Spygate, the idea became fact for many outside of New England that the reason why they won those three Super Bowls was because they were somehow cheating, but just weren't caught. The fact that the Patriots lost Super Bowls in the 2007 and 2011 seasons gave credence to that argument for many. "They can't win if they don't cheat."

If the Patriots were to win this Super Bowl prior to this whole deflate-gate mess, it would provide some level of vindication for all the naysayers out there that they won it cleanly. Regardless of whether they are directly tied to this and held accountable by the NFL or not, in the "Bill Cosby" world of public opinion and media, they are already convicted, and the franchise integrity, which was already questionable after Spygate, is badly tainted, perhaps for generations.

If they win the Super Bowl, it will be because they cheated, and if they don't win, it's because they can't win if they don't cheat.

You should have listened to sports radio in Boston today. You'd think they're gonna pull a Joan of Arc on Belichick. I can't believe that I'm saying this out loud, but if this is found true, Robert Kraft may not have any choice but to fire Belichick to at least try and restore some level of credibility to the franchise.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Rami,

You know the Boston Media as well as I do. Let hope the Pats get fired up and crush Seatle. That will shut them all up.

[Rami]

First off, the refs handle the ball every down. So if they feel the balls are under inflated, they can refuse the ball and get a new one. How many plays were in the first half. They had that many chances to fix it.

Next, if the Balls were under inflated the first half and at normal pressure for the second, then Brady does better with the correct pressure. Which only makes sense. Thats what they practice with.

Did anyone watch the episode of Myth busters with the helium inflated footballs? If not I suggest you do. After watching it you'll see that this is all nonsense.

If the officials are that stupid to allow the game to be played like that, then they are the ones that are at fault.

John,

The reports out now indicate that the refs did sense that something was rotten in Denmark at halftime, and swapped the questionable footballs out for substitutes.

[Allen]

Even if the footballs were under-inflated... I think Indianapolis needed more help than that to even stay close with New England.

I'm just glad the Broncos got knocked out by the Colts. If Denver played NE the result would have been much worse, adding more insult to injury.

You know that Indianapolis and New England had different balls for offence? That right Indianapolis has a set of 12 they use for offence and New England had a set of 12 they use for offence. This means that a Indianapolis player would never touch a New England deflated ball unless it was intercepted....

As for the rest of this mess.

Commissioner Roger Fidel should have walked up to the mike today and said. Do to lack of institutional control Bob Kraft is banned from having contact with the New England Patriots for the rest of the leage year. Head Coach Bill Belichick is suspended indefinitely. Also the New England Patriots and Bill Belichick will be give the maximum allowable fine.

[Blood_Hawk23]

***Please note that this is not directed at anyone. Its just a little rant on my part.***

I still find it hard to believe that not one ref questioned it. some report say that it was at 10psi. Even in the cold they could tell a 2 to 3 pound drop.

Lets point the blame where it is due. The officals are at fault. It is thier job to make sure the rules are followed. How about all of the missed calls in that Baltimore game. Allowing the Ravens free reign for a little extra work after the play was over, just as an example. There should have been a few personal fowls called. Not to mention all of the questionable calls all season. With the exception of a few, the officials are all crap.

To tell me that it to until half time took figure it out is BS. Its an excuse, and you know what those are like. they had two quarters to fix it. Time they start doing thier job.

The Boston media is garbage anyways. Its only the second worst next to New Yorks. I say that they can all take a nice long walk off of a very short pier.

Thats where I stand.

[Rami]

Blood_Hawk,

If this continues for another couple of days...look for a SNL "schweddy-esque" skit in the near future.

[Rami]

personal fowls

Blood_Hawk,

Yeah...Brady forgot his game hens and chickens that night.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Yeah I can see it now.

You know, if the Pats are cleared and I was the one incharge of that Indy reporter, I'd tell him to look for work else where. 45-7. Come on the Colts didn't even show up to play.

K I'm done. Moving on...

[Rami]

No problem. I'll head back to Casablanca.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Blood_Hawk,

Yeah...Brady forgot his game hens and chickens that night.

LOL oops. I blame the new keyboard... Thats what happens when you type fast and don't think. Foul, Fowl. ahhh close enough.

[Wayland]

BH, If you don't stay on top of cleanup, fowl can get pretty foul.

Ask anyone who owns chickens or turkeys. We have a flock of 80-100 wild turkeys on the property, and they visit every 2 to 3 days. What a mess, and boy does it reek, too.

Steve

[Blood_Hawk23]

well atleast the error was in the correct contex. I was talking about the Ravens. maybe thats why the error was made.

When I lived on the lake we had the same problem with the geese. They are cute when they are little. Once they grow up, in late summer, its like a hundred poodles walked and pooped in the yard. Not so cute then.

[ViperPilot2]

Rami,

I was just looking at the issue purely from an X's and O's standpoint; the Colts were ineffective on both sides of the 'ball'. The fact that a slightly deflated football may be easier to hold, throw and catch doesn't mean diddly if your Offense can't move the football 10 yards in three tries consistently, or if the Defense can't stop your opponent's Running game to the tune of 146 yards and three TD's.

That being said, I think that the Patriots, in particular Bill Belichick and Josh McDaniels, will do everything it takes to win, even if that means 'dancing the ethics line'.

Let's not forget that this is the 3rd time that Hoodie The Younger has been 'complicit' in three separate incidents; two with the Pats, and one with the Broncos. He had to learn the ropes from someone; perhaps it was Hoodie The Elder!

[Devildog73]

I am neither a Colts fan, nor a Pats hater.

I live in the worst of both worlds.........I am a Bears fan. I hate that we haven't had a real QB since McMahon left Chicago and only marginal coaches, (since none would get a real QB and stuck with losers all these years.)

Shoot, Tim Tebow would have been better than Grossman and/or Cutler, two of the most consistently inconsistent 1/32backs, perhaps 1/64backs, in the league.......

And you all are correct, Indy did not lose the game from Brady passes, they lost it on the ground with lack of defense. Being a Bears fan from youth, I happen to believe the defense is the key to winning the game.

If a defense holds, a marginal offense is capable of winning with only a field goal, or nothing but defensive take-aways. A defensive stand and a safety with absolutely no other scores in a game still wins.

I don't like the pressure to win and obscene amounts of money involved in professional and NCAA Div I sports today. I think both contribute to the tendency to bring cheating to new levels of low, covert methods.

So, anyone for a good game of Fussball or Rugby????

[glh]

Here's a football team worthy of league expansion:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5-sx-Qgd_M

[dmaloof]

hey, ia agree too. defense is key. I re,member '85 where the Bears bounced pats 46-10. Andre Tippet led the pats on d. where their qb's were nothing compared to brady of today.

[bearcat241]

] [/COLOR]Here's a football team worthy of league expansion:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5-sx-Qgd_M

Hmmmm...i dunno about that...if the play or practice is on grass, i'll need to see some stains on all that spotless white before they get my vote... lol


Seahawks rule!...

[highpockets]

Just be glad you guys are not a 2013 Texans fan. Talk about falling apart. I just take my frustrations out by climbing in the cockpit and go shoot down some enemy aircraft.