Corsair Tailhook

[gray eagle]

Is there anyone else that can not fully deploy the tail hook? What you see is fully extended.





I have the latest FDE replacements installed fliger747_edited_corsair_fde_12_31_14.zip



Edit: It comes down fully when airborne and wheels are down.

Couldn't delete this so I posted this edit

[ejoiner]

Is there anyone else that can not fully deploy the tail hook? What you see is fully extended.





I have the latest FDE replacements installed fliger747_edited_corsair_fde_12_31_14.zip



Edit: It comes down fully when airborne and wheels are down.

Couldn't delete this so I posted this edit

I dont have a problem with the tail hook that I know of, other than I cant extend it unless the gear is down. I have noted that when on the carrier deck, the tail wheel does not touch the ground. main gear are ok, tail wheel no.

[Dumonceau]

This thread guys, post #34 by Bomber_12th

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...Corsairs/page2

[gray eagle]

This thread guys, post #34 by Bomber_12th

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...Corsairs/page2

My issue is as stated http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...Corsairs/page2, #42 namely, upon landing, with the tail hook extended (that means full out), it will retract fully (that means raise).
I HAVE made the tail hook entries and I have previously. Don't know why I was referred to another thread as I made the changes to the tail hook.

Normally, when you extend the tail hook and land, the tail hook remains out until you manually raise it. It is not supposed to raise automatically. That is the whole point
of this in case you missed what I was trying to convey.



Using any Razbam aircraft, and on the ground, I can raise and lower the tail hook on any of their products that come with a tail hook.
This one from A2A, the hook will not extend while on the ground; it will extend when airborne (At least this is what I am experiencing).
Then after a landing whether it's on a carrier or shore base runway, the hook will pop in like a turtle's head. While on the ground, the hook will only
partially move out and not come it contact with the ground. That's about as lucid as I can be.

[Bomber_12th]

It's not a problem with the model, Gray Eagle, it is the way the tailhook entry in the Aircraft.cfg file is setup - by default with the original Aircraft Factory product files, the tailhook will extend all the way to the ground (but then again, as it comes, it doesn't have a tailhook entry in it). So no blame is to be made on A2A/Aircraft Factory. The tailhook entry written in the original Tom Falley (Fliger747) FDE was for the original MV model, and thus wasn't properly setup for the Aircraft Factory model, and will cause the nose-overs every time when catching a wire.

On most any taildragger aircraft in FSX, even if the tailhook information is entered accurately to actually match the model correctly, it will almost always still cause the aircraft to flip onto its nose when landing, or very near to it. The tailhook system in FSX was never designed with taildraggers in-mind. As a result, you usually always have to play with the position and length of the tailhook in the Aircraft.cfg file, to a location that is farther back, and usually also with a shorter tailhook arm length, to decrease the nose-over effects. With the tailhook entry I provided for the Aircraft.cfg file, it was simply a quick modification (probably much too far exaggerated) that will allow you to land the aircraft and catch a wire without nosing over, but the side-effect is that the tailhook won't extend all the way down when on the ground.

To accurately match the Aircraft Factory model, allowing the tailhook to drop all the way to the ground when on the ground/carrier, the tailhook entry should look fairly much like this instead:

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 4
tailhook_position = -17.2, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

With that entry, however, expect the nose to dip down more than in my previous tailhook mod, but it shouldn't cause any damage to the aircraft. A way to ensure the littlest-amount of nose over is to make sure you are landing slow enough, with a near-to-full stall landing.

Furthermore, you can experiment with something more like this, which will still allow the tailhook to extend all the way to the ground, and will do a little bit more to dampen the tail from rising as high when catching a wire.

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2.52
tailhook_position = -22.5, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

[DaveB]

Thanks for the time and effort you're putting into this John.. it's much appreciated The tail hook (and/or it's setup) is often overlooked on what are to all intents, carrier models.. I've a few I don't use for carrier ops because of this darned nose-over as the wire gets taught which is not only a shame but a waste of money in my opinion.

Tks again
ATB
DaveB

[Bomber_12th]

Not a problem, Dave. I went through all of this trouble when tuning-in the carrier habits of the Navy-modified P-51D "Seahorse" that we did through Warbirdsim, matching the original aircraft. A whole other problem arises when you want to setup these aircraft for catapault launches, as they were also originally configured for and used with during WWII and after. For that, there is a quick FSX.cfg file modification that improves things considerably (together with a required Aircraft.cfg file section, just for cat-launches).

(BTW, I've updated the tailhook entries in my last post, ever-so-slightly.)

[DaveB]

Cheers John

I'm almost embarrassed to say I bought Mustang Tales in the pre-Christmas sales but have yet to install it though to offset this.. I did spend some time whizzing up and around Gibraltar in 'Frankie' this afternoon Note to self.. install Mustang Tales!

I tried the first of the two entries above (pre-edit) and found the 1A was still nosing over. After 3 attempts and me thinking I'd got away with it on each occasion.. it 'just' tipped each time I'll try the edit above and if all fails.. the second entry above.

I was light too.. sub 100gals. Perhaps I need to be yet lighter?? It wasn't possible to go slower without ditching!
ATB
DaveB

[Bomber_12th]

Yeah, I like the second tailhook entry in my post much more - and hopefully it makes everyone happy. ; ) The tail will still lift up, but no where near a nose-tip. I usually try to get over the threshold of the deck at about 95-100 KIAS and then chop the throttle, setting down over/onto the wires.

In order to quickly do some carrier practice, I've been loading up the carrier practice mission, with changes allowed, and switch over to the corsair.

[gray eagle]

It's not a problem with the model, Gray Eagle, it is the way the tailhook entry in the Aircraft.cfg file is setup - by default with the original Aircraft Factory product files, the tailhook will extend all the way to the ground (but then again, as it comes, it doesn't have a tailhook entry in it). So no blame is to be made on A2A/Aircraft Factory. The tailhook entry written in the original Tom Falley (Fliger747) FDE was for the original MV model, and thus wasn't properly setup for the Aircraft Factory model, and will cause the nose-overs every time when catching a wire.

On most any taildragger aircraft in FSX, even if the tailhook information is entered accurately to actually match the model correctly, it will almost always still cause the aircraft to flip onto its nose when landing, or very near to it. The tailhook system in FSX was never designed with taildraggers in-mind. As a result, you usually always have to play with the position and length of the tailhook in the Aircraft.cfg file, to a location that is farther back, and usually also with a shorter tailhook arm length, to decrease the nose-over effects. With the tailhook entry I provided for the Aircraft.cfg file, it was simply a quick modification (probably much too far exaggerated) that will allow you to land the aircraft and catch a wire without nosing over, but the side-effect is that the tailhook won't extend all the way down when on the ground.

To accurately match the Aircraft Factory model, allowing the tailhook to drop all the way to the ground when on the ground/carrier, the tailhook entry should look fairly much like this instead:

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 4
tailhook_position = -17.2, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

With that entry, however, expect the nose to dip down more than in my previous tailhook mod, but it shouldn't cause any damage to the aircraft. A way to ensure the littlest-amount of nose over is to make sure you are landing slow enough, with a near-to-full stall landing.

Furthermore, you can experiment with something more like this, which will still allow the tailhook to extend all the way to the ground, and will do a little bit more to dampen the tail from rising as high when catching a wire.

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2.52
tailhook_position = -22.5, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

John,

All the above is now in the fliger747_edited_corsair_fde_12_31_14.zip ? If so, I seem to of lost the link.

Thanks
Butch


Edit: I used the first set of figures and the hook goes all the way down to the deck. Thanks John
Sorry to of been a pain. I had a feeling it was something in that tail hook entry but I didn't have a clue as to the line/line that needed
changing and parameters to use.

[DaveB]

I tried the revised first entry with around 70gals onboard and was just about to cartwheel around the front room when the b1oody thing tipped over again just as it stopped Tried once more and finally trapped I found that rather too close to death mind you so I'll try the second entry now. I already have it in the cfg.. just need to remove the // . Now I know it can be done.. I'm a much happier chappie
ATB
DaveB

[DaveB]

John,

All the above is now in the fliger747_edited_corsair_fde_12_31_14.zip ? If so, I seem to of lost the link.

Thanks
Butch

Butch.. it's on this link.. http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...ctory-Corsairs

ATB
DaveB

[TARPSBird]

Seems like tailhooking in FSX is much more "user-friendly" for postwar tricycle-gear aircraft than the taildraggers of the 1930's and WWII. There are several tailwheel planes that I simply could not get to land without nosing over, no matter how slow I was over the ramp or how I tweaked the tailhook values. I ended up cheating a bit by moving the main gear contact points forward by about 1.0-1.5 ft. This doesn't usually change the aircraft's appearance on deck but it seems to resolve the nose-over problem for me.

[gray eagle]

Seems like tailhooking in FSX is much more "user-friendly" for postwar tricycle-gear aircraft than the taildraggers of the 1930's and WWII. There are several tailwheel planes that I simply could not get to land without nosing over, no matter how slow I was over the ramp or how I tweaked the tailhook values. I ended up cheating a bit by moving the main gear contact points forward by about 1.0-1.5 ft. This doesn't usually change the aircraft's appearance on deck but it seems to resolve the nose-over problem for me.

You got a point. I remember watching those old WW2 Victory at sea movies and those old Navy Prop jobs (Tail draggers) landing on pitching deck of carrier in rough seas, and once in awhile
a plane would nose over. Some would split in half and the cockpit would go toward the island with the pilot still in it and miraculously crawl out of the cockpit unscathed.

[TARPSBird]

I'll be the first to admit that my "getting aboard" technique is not that great and the LSO would always have some nasty comments for me down in the ready room when he made his rounds. Planes do nose over for a variety of reasons (like excessive brakes, landing gear or structural failure), but not usually on a routine trap when you simply out the wire. Kinda takes the fun out of the sim when it happens all the time.

[gray eagle]

Butch.. it's on this link.. http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...ctory-Corsairs

ATB
DaveB

Thanks, Dave.

Think I will just add the new tail hook entries to the aircraft.cfg files of the fliger747_edited_corsair_fde_12_31_14.zip
unless John is making a revision to this.

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 4
tailhook_position = -17.2, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

[DaveB]

If you're not happy with those.. try the second entry

@TARPSBird..
Yeah.. and it's so annoying! Some models will catch the wire with consummate ease.. the VS_SBD and Avenger are dead certs every time. The Hellcat on the other hand is a handful and will nose-over like the 'default' cfg Corsair and the JF Martlett/Wildcat for that matter. Tricycle gear models have other problems of course but you don't have to worry about visiting sickbay just as you come to a stop

ATB
DaveB

[Duckie]

To accurately match the Aircraft Factory model, allowing the tailhook to drop all the way to the ground when on the ground/carrier, the tailhook entry should look fairly much like this instead:

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 4
tailhook_position = -17.2, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

With that entry, however, expect the nose to dip down more than in my previous tailhook mod, but it shouldn't cause any damage to the aircraft. A way to ensure the littlest-amount of nose over is to make sure you are landing slow enough, with a near-to-full stall landing.

Furthermore, you can experiment with something more like this, which will still allow the tailhook to extend all the way to the ground, and will do a little bit more to dampen the tail from rising as high when catching a wire.

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2.52
tailhook_position = -22.5, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

Hey John, thanks for the mod work on fliger747's FDE, and for the tail hook position mods. The second mod above works great for me. Upon catching the wire the tail is snatched up to about parallel with the deck and as the bird is hauled to a stop it teeters for a split second in this attitude then the tail flops down on the deck.

Much appreciated.

[fliger747]

I am not sure what if any modifications A2A made to the Milviz Corsair after they purchased it. The original was tested with perhaps 300-400 arrested carrier landings and was as accurate as I could make it in this flight regime. If you are nosing up on landing you are landing with too much speed over the deck. (1) the ship should be moving 25 knots or so and it is helpful if you have some wind to head into. Ideal wind over the deck would be 35-40 knots. In landing the Corsair make sure you fuel is reduced, landing at max weight is not recommended. Make sure you approach speed is between 87-90 knots, no faster or slower. This will seem really slow, lots of torque and rudder required, at this point you will get the full Corsair experience! About 10 deg rt rudder trim and 1 deg nose up trim will be helpful. A circular approach with a VERY short final and viewpoint moved left to site down the cowl are helpful.

As noted earlier almost any FSX taildragger will nose up if landed with too much relative ground speed. FSX ships vary somewhat in their arresting properties. If you have a specific ship you use you might try adjusting the cable force scalar in the acft.cfg file.

Anyway, have fun with the hose nose-ensign eliminator.

T

[Duckie]

I am not sure what if any modifications A2A made to the Milviz Corsair after they purchased it. The original was tested with perhaps 300-400 arrested carrier landings and was as accurate as I could make it in this flight regime. If you are nosing up on landing you are landing with too much speed over the deck. (1) the ship should be moving 25 knots or so and it is helpful if you have some wind to head into. Ideal wind over the deck would be 35-40 knots. In landing the Corsair make sure you fuel is reduced, landing at max weight is not recommended. Make sure you approach speed is between 87-90 knots, no faster or slower. This will seem really slow, lots of torque and rudder required, at this point you will get the full Corsair experience! About 10 deg rt rudder trim and 1 deg nose up trim will be helpful. A circular approach with a VERY short final and viewpoint moved left to site down the cowl are helpful.

As noted earlier almost any FSX taildragger will nose up if landed with too much relative ground speed. FSX ships vary somewhat in their arresting properties. If you have a specific ship you use you might try adjusting the cable force scalar in the acft.cfg file.

Anyway, have fun with the hose nose-ensign eliminator.

T

Great tutorial Tom. Thank you.

[Stickshaker]

Thanks indeed, Fliger! Until now keeping the speed as steady as you suggest is too much for me, at lease in combination with chasing the moving landing spot…<o></o>

[Bomber_12th]

Tom, what happened is that after it was taken over by A2A, the model was evidently shifted within the modeling software, as all of the ordinates within your Aircraft.cfg file for the model (contact points, weight and balance/reference points, engine position, tailhook position, fuel tank positions, cockpit viewpoint, etc) were no longer the same as in the A2A/AF model. All of my modifications have been to take your flight dynamics and re-introduce the correct ordinates for the A2A/AF model, while keeping all of your other work the same. For instance, compared to the original MV model and the A2A/AF modified model, because of the model being shifted, the tailhook ordinates/location differs by more than two feet forward/aft (and that seems to be the case with the other ordinates/points as well), so with the original MV tailhook entry, it was too far forward for the modified A2A/AF version, causing a nose-over every time no matter how good your carrier landing is. Another example, because of all of this, is that when someone installs your original MV FDE into the A2A/AF model, the cockpit viewpoint is also located about two feet in front of where it should be with the A2A/AF model, and the model sits with the tires sunk into the ground.

Here is a most recent copy of your FDE, Tom, with all of the necessary modifications to match it to the A2A/AF model. Some of these are newly included:

- Weight and balance reference points to match the A2A/AF model
- Contact points to match the A2A/AF model
- Cockpit viewpoint to match the A2A/AF model
- External viewpoints to match the A2A/AF model
- Fuel tanks are positioned to match the A2A/AF model
- Engine location points to match the A2A/AF model
- Increased normalized starter torque to that of the A2A/AF model, so that when pressing the starter switch the engine will start
- Adjusted tailhook entry to match the A2A/AF model (the exaggerated one I prefer, for more realistic trap results)
- The original lights and effects entries from the original A2A/AF model
- Added a smoke system for airshow flying (the smoke generator is connected to the starboard-side exhaust).

[TARPSBird]

I've been reading the various posts here regarding the tweaks to the AF Corsair tailhook entries in the .cfg file, so I thought I'd check my F4U's out and see what I had. I looked in the .cfg file for the F4U-1D and could not find a tailhook entry. I believe I'm using the default .cfg file that came with the planes. Yet I've been successfully landing aboard the USS Leyte (CV-32) since last night. How am I doing this???

[Adrian Petford]

Thanks for your work John and Tom. This is why I love SOH... so many experts on hand to make great aircraft even better.

The updated FDE is fantastic, so much fun to fly!

[dhasdell]

On most any taildragger aircraft in FSX, even if the tailhook information is entered accurately to actually match the model correctly, it will almost always still cause the aircraft to flip onto its nose when landing, or very near to it.

This is true of the Just Flight Wildcat, too, and there's a similar fix for the aircraft.cfg.