Nemeth: MBB/Kawasaki BK-117

[YoYo]

Nemeth back to the game. Released:

http://www.nemethdesigns.com/payware...2-fsx-new.html

[JimmyRFR]

Looks nice...

If someone creates an HTR profile, I'll bite. Or if I learn how to... but since that's not likely based on my failed attempts at trying, I'd have to wait for someone else.

[baernhard]

A great helicopter

So far unfortunately no Paintkit.
So this is WIP ...





Best wishes
Bernhhard.

[ryanbatc]

Does it fly alright? I had the A109 I think and it was terrible at flying?

[DaveB]

Not only the 109! The 350/355 and 130 were also pigs. I'm holding off until I know it's better sorted.

ATB
DaveB

[JimmyRFR]

Not only the 109! The 350/355 and 130 were also pigs. I'm holding off until I know it's better sorted.

ATB
DaveB

Agreed. I picked up the EC-130 not that long ago on a whim, and I can't say that I was pleased with the flight model. And that is me trying to be civil about it...

On my to-do list is to try again at writing HTR profiles. I've attempted it, but my results are spectacularly bad; the helicopter ends up doing things that are firmly in the realm of spacecraft from movies. There are so many really good looking helicopters that are in such bad need of at least a semi-decent HTR profile. I'm not even looking for a perfect replication of the flight model; I just want something that is capable of flying relatively decent.

[DaveB]

Agree also. Annoyingly, they're convinced how 'real' they all are and how easy they are to fly on their 'custom' setups!! Their customers 'demand' more (they say) and the end result is what we see Don't get me wrong.. I'm a fan of Nemeth models. The only one I haven't had (to this point) is the Sky Crane and hoped to pick that up in the 'expected' Nemeth Christmas sale (they have one each year with all but the latest releases going for a shade under $10) but the disappointment I had with the 130 (and Squirrels) is making me a bit more cautious with my dosh. The 109 is 'ok' after they released the patch but the Squirrels still suck to a large degree. The patch for them (and the 130) is basically an FS9 flight model which doesn't really work on the 350/355 and kills the 130. Initial reports on the Nemeth forums are not favourable.. good model but 'wanting' FD.. again. Those with dedicated helicopter setups may see it differently but how many of us have that sort of rig?

ATB
DaveB

[JimmyRFR]

Those with dedicated helicopter setups may see it differently but how many of us have that sort of rig?

ATB
DaveB

I really don't think a dedicated cyclic + collective setup would help. Although I'm using a regular joystick (x55+TQ), there's still a world of difference between something like the Cera Sim or the recent Milviz dynamics and the stuff from Nemeth. Drop into DCS, and the need for a proper cyclic + collective rears it's head, but in a completely different way.

[Cirrus N210MS]

looks nice and the other helicopters fly just great you just need to learn how to fly it lol

[DaveB]

Agree entirely mate.. that's 'part of' my whole point. I'm fortunate enough to have tried 'bonafide' AS350 sim training software on a home pc with a standard joystick and it is NOTHING like the 'as real as it gets' FD that Nemeth pushed out. With this in mind.. I'm rather more dismissive of their claims. They're not alone though. Alabeo quote a 'realistic' FD for their Robbie R66 Turbine (which I also have) and I had to laugh when a guy who actually flies them said the FD was nothing like the real thing I still bought it though because it was cheap I have all the CeraSim models too and these are different again.

You should be able to fly any of them with reasonable success on a basic setup IMHO and if you have the kit to handle the niceties.. then these should come into play. For Nemeth to say that the 130 flies great with setup X and Y is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike if all you have is a joystick. From what I read over at Nemeth.. the 117 adopts a nose down attitude (as did the 130 and the Squirrels) so I expect the FD to be similar. On the strength of this.. I'm still hanging onto my cash

EDIT: Thanks for that Cirrus!
ATB
Dave

[Fireball6]

And while we are waiting for the PaintKit - i reworked the original textures a bit (fictional reg-numbers)........

[YoYo]

Nice repaint. Is it available?

[Fireball6]

Here you go YoYo - Download-links for both : https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpy0g0ts0f...DHMDZ.zip?dl=0 ;

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oybjx4fn8u...DHMHZ.zip?dl=0

Happy flying

Dirk

P.S. Download-links are for all interested Chopper fans

[SeanTK]

Cross-posted from another location, but I figured I'd ask here...

For those who have this, can they provide a comprehensive review?
Looking for info on the following factors:

1. Systems. Are they semi-realistic? Any problems in switch and/or gauge operation?
2. Flight Dynamics. I see there is a third-party improvement for the FD on flightsim.com. Verdict?
3. What's it like under IFR conditions? Can you shoot an ILS, LOC, VOR/DME, and NDB approach with it successfully? Can you track the compass direction accurately in clouds? (Nemeth historically has a problem with their HSI instruments acting like a wet-compass would...with turn errors.)
4. High quality soundset with sounds for the blades at different power settings, avionics, etc?

Any outstanding issues?

[DaveB]

Hi Sean

I couldn't begin to give a detailed review but drawn like a moth to a flame and despite my reservations.. I cracked and bought it last night.

There are issues with the soundset.. these already noted on the Nemeth forums. In short.. the sound remains at a constant pitch regardless of flight mode. I'm going to throw BladeSlapSND at it IDC.

I didn't know of the FD 'upgrade' so thanks for the HU on that! 'Upgrade' is often a misused word.. 'Alternative' fits the bill more often than not. In this case however.. the authors revised airfile and cfg do exactly as stated. With the 'release' FD.. the model will fly with a pronounced nose-down which requires constant back-pressure on the stick to maintain level flight. On the plus side.. this is nowhere near as difficult to control as it was with the EC130 which was over sensitive on my standard setup (MS Sidewinder.. no pedals).. so it doesn't 'nod' in the same way. The 'revised' FD removes this completely.. in fact it is almost the reverse. Gentle prods fwd are required to stop the nose going up. One thing I notice with the revised FD is that the model now 'walks' slightly on the deck.. not a lot but the model feels like it's a fingernail short of lifting off. Given the choice.. I will keep the revised FD for now. The changes listed by the author add considerably (IMHO) to the overall flying experience. Nemeth may address these IDC as they've all been noted on their forums but we'll have to see.

I've not had time to go through any of the systems Sean so it would be unfair to comment. Hopefully.. one of the other users will jump in Briefly.. it seems as other Nemeth releases in that you can jump in and fly without having to initiate individual systems. The 'usual' power connection screen is visible on shift+3 but it doesn't appear to be necessary to connect it. Much more fiddling required

ATB
DaveB

[DaveB]

Sean..

Here's a list of things currently picked up on the release model..

- Blue Windscreen in DX9 and DX10 in bad weather settings ( fog, rain,etc... )
- Fuel Pump Sound all the time on in VC View
- Missing Startup sounds in VC View
- Flight dynamics are not correct,
- Missing Paintkit in Installer.
- Rotor sound isnt RPM/load depended ( nicely done in A109 but missing here )
- Flight dynamics need improvement.

I've copied this off the Nemeth forum and as far as I can tell.. a lot of FSX users are seeing at least one if not all of the above. You may wish to hang on until Nemeth address these issues

ATB
DaveB

[JimmyRFR]

- Flight dynamics need improvement.

For some reason, that one makes me smile. That statement could apply to nearly all of the Heli's in FSX .

This thread, while it didn't make me want to jump on the BK-117 immediately, did however spur me on to edit & adjust the flight dynamics for the EC-130. I've actually gotten it to somewhere where I'm very happy with it. It's likely not extremely accurate, but it no longer dives like a submarine, has just a touch of pedal required for a smooth lift-off, and is still within the numbers for climb and cruise speeds. It's quite a nice model now that it flies acceptably; the water and dirt effects on the windscreen are quite neat, and the VC layout is quite nice as well.

The unfortunate part is that I really can't share my edits - I used a .air file from a different payware heli to start my edits, and it'd take me quite a bit of space to list the slight changes made to it. And the edits to the .cfg file are worthless without the edited .air file. If I get really brave, I'll write my own .air file and then I can share.

My experience with that though has given me hope for some of my other heli's that I don't fly often, and may be incentive enough to pick up a few of the other Nemeth heli's that I've had my eye on.

[DaveB]

They're not all like this Jimmy.. thank goodness Up to and including the EC135 are pretty much what you'd expect. I'm not sure what spurred the changes with the AW109 and continuing this with the 350/355/130 and now the BK117? Some of what went on with the 109 was blamed (if I can use that word) on Milviz as it was a joint project. Milviz did the coding and Nemeth made the model. The AW109 still has some quirks but is otherwise sorted after the patch. I use a different (non-Nemeth) airfile on the 350/355 which now flies to the numbers

So.. the AS332, AW109, Bo105, EC120, EC135, MD902, Mi24, MD500/Mh-6 and UH-1c/h fly pretty much as you'd expect.

The 'odd' ones are the AS350, AS355, EC130 (without patch) and Bk117 (flies better with non-Nemeth FD) and the SA-2 (which is plain weird anyway)!!

They are what they are. If you want an easier ride, go with anything in the first list. I have them all (all listed anyway)

ATB
DaveB

[Katoun]

Hi Dave,

Actually, sad to say but you are misinformed. Milviz did no coding on the Skycrane, the Huey, the AW-109 and the Chinook. All coding was done by the Nemeth's and that included the FDE's. Milviz only did the models. Now, however, we do both and are no longer involved with the Nemeth's though, at least with them, we remain on good terms.

Thank you.

Kat

[JimmyRFR]

Some of what went on with the 109 was blamed (if I can use that word) on Milviz as it was a joint project. Milviz did the coding and Nemeth made the model.

I was under the impression (and I'm often wrong!) that the Milviz / Nemeth releases (4 of them, I think?) were the other way around - Milviz did the modelling and Nemeth did all the systems / coding. I may have been under that impression since modelling is what MV is known for.

I'll keep it in mind that the older Nemeth heli's are regarded as decent fliers. My experience with them is mostly the newer stuff, which I haven't been as happy with. The problem is of course, is that you can only fly one at a time: this leads to the Nemeth heli's invariably being passed over when I'm looking for a heli in my hangar to fly.

Edit: Looks like Kat beat me to the punch!

[YoYo]

Sean..

Here's a list of things currently picked up on the release model..


- Missing Paintkit in Installer.

???

This is advantage I think.

If The paintkit has 700 Mb and I dont need it why it must be in installer?


Btw. I saw service pack 1.01: http://www.nemethdesigns.com/modules...patch-101.html .

The VC has tool tips? Mi-24 hasnt. I havent Kawasaki but always I like this kind of copter.

[DaveB]

Hi Dave,

Actually, sad to say but you are misinformed. Milviz did no coding on the Skycrane, the Huey, the AW-109 and the Chinook. All coding was done by the Nemeth's and that included the FDE's. Milviz only did the models. Now, however, we do both and are no longer involved with the Nemeth's though, at least with them, we remain on good terms.

Thank you.

Kat

Rgr that Kat and thanks for putting me right I'm guessing then that some artistic license was used when they were unable to sort out a particular issue. It's easier to blame 'the other half'

YoYo.. I'm not sure where you got 700mb for the PK from. There will probably be something like 6 maps that users will want to change. 2 for the 'normal' model.. 2 for the 'Med' model and 2 which will cover both models making 01, 02, 03 and 04. 700mb for that sounds ever so excessive!! The 1.01 patch resolves a small number of issues.. not least of all the thumbnails which still showed beta wording.

No.. the Mi-24 doesn't have tool tips. I found it easier to install the 'English' legend panel. Not as authentic I know but a lot easier to find your way around!!

ATB
DaveB

[YoYo]

Dave, it was an example, 1 PSD file its near 100 MB often, for example PK for AS F-14 has 2,6 GB (!), SSW F-84 its near 600 MB.
If it has 6 maps, it will be perhaps 400-800 Mb in PSD with layers. It isnt good idea to add PK for all cusomers in installer I think .
Link enough.

[DaveB]

Yes, I agree. Point is though.. it is advertised as coming with a paintkit.. be that a link or included in the main files. Many people won't bother with a PK so it should, to my mind, be a separate link

The choice to go for the 117 was finalised in Feb of this year but I still get a feeling it's been rushed out for Christmas. Incidentally.. the next model will be a Bell 429 (if their build schedule holds).

ATB
DaveB

[YoYo]

http://www.nemethdesigns.com/modules...-released.html

A livery Pack for the BK-117 is released. It adds 12 new paint themes to the BK-117.