Need help with KOSH

[Bill Kestell]

I've recently gotten back into FS9 and just noticed that it is impossible to fly an ILS landing into RWY 36 at KOSH.

Oh, the ILS beacon works ... but it brings you into intersecting the runway several degrees off to the East and you actually never touch the runway until you are nearly at the North end of it (you're landing on the space between the taxiway and runway on the diagonal).

Clearly, this is because the beacon is not oriented at all properly. I can fly ILS into KMSN and KGRB without issues.

Does anyone know of a way to correct this error ... the easier, the better?

Thanks

[Lane Street]

Aside from the discussion of autoland and FS, Microsoft did get this one wrong, or at least it doesn't match current charts.

Fixing it requires a few simple edits with Airport Design Editor.

First, the ILS heading doesn't match the runway heading, so a quick change to the ILS heading.

Then the Approach Editor can straighten out the procedure turn so it aligns with the ILS. this step is optional and only required to make the approach look right in the GPS.

ADE is free and you can get it here- ADE

Also, you could search the popular file libraries and see if someone has already fixed this.

cheers,
Lane

[Bill Kestell]

Thanks, Lane Street ... happy to know that is was M/S ... not me this time.

[Bill Kestell]

Lane Street.

OK, I am looking at KOSH in ADE1.6. It shows an overview (black screen with the ILS cone, approach, course to missed approach, etc). I am also looking at two boxes on the right side of the screen. The top one has the R36:ILSwith various approach legs (IF CF and CF) Missed Approach LEG (VA, CF, HM) Transition OSH (Transition Leg IF, CF, PI) Transition POBER (Transition Leg PI).

The second box is Approach: R36: ILS and lists things such as:
Type,
Rwy #
Rwy Des
Suffix
GPS Overlay,
Fix Type
Fix Ident
Appr Alt Feet,
Missed Alt Feet
Heading Deg
Default Turn

I just still can't see what to change to bring the ILS cone in line with the runway.

Thanks

[Lane Street]

Start with Airport Mode, not Approach Mode.

First go to View > and make sure there is a check on Navaids.

If you look at the ILS feather, which is at the 18 threshold, you will see that it is not aligned with the runway.

Now go to Lists > Runways and note that 18/36 has a heading of 180.5

Then Lists > Navaids click on ILS 36, then the Edit button.

180.5 is the heading for 18, so we want to change the ILS heading to the reciprocal which is 00.5

Click OK, then close the list. Now check the feathers and they line up nicely with the runway.

Now switch to Approach Mode. Then Lists > Approaches > ILS 36 > Edit

In the upper right box click on TransitionLeg PI under Transition OSH.

In the Lower Right box, change Course Deg to 138.

Do the same under Transition POBER.

Save the airport and compile.

That should fix the misaligned ILS and approaches.

cheers,
Lane

[Tom Clayton]

I prefer the old AFCAD 2.2.1 by Lee Swordy. Changing the angle of the ILS was pretty simple. Here's an AFCAD file you can put into your Addon Scenery\scenery folder. Just drop it in and start the Sim - no need to change anything in the Scenery Library.

[Lane Street]

I prefer the old AFCAD 2.2.1 by Lee Swordy. Changing the angle of the ILS was pretty simple. Here's an AFCAD file you can put into your Addon Scenery\scenery folder. Just drop it in and start the Sim - no need to change anything in the Scenery Library.

Agreed, except Afcad cannot fix the approach.

cheers,
Lane

[Bill Kestell]

@Lane Street.

Everyone who writes tutorials should look at yours. PERFECTION!

I went through the operations and now KOSH Rwy 36 ILS is perfect.

Now ... one final question for you (or anyone really):

ADE seems to work ONLY in C drive. That's OK for my test bed, but my flight sim library is located in my D drive. I tried just copying over the "scenery" folder from the C drive install ... but no luck; still screwed up. I therefore have to believe that the "things" which control the airports data is located elsewhere ... WHERE?

Thanks more than I can say!

[Bill Kestell]

@Tom Clayton,

Thanks, Tom, that worked out also.

What a community!

[Lane Street]

Happy to help.

ADE seems to work ONLY in C drive. That's OK for my test bed, but my flight sim library is located in my D drive. I tried just copying over the "scenery" folder from the C drive install ... but no luck; still screwed up. I therefore have to believe that the "things" which control the airports data is located elsewhere ... WHERE?

Not real sure what you are saying, ADE should work on any drive.

I have ADE on my C: drive and it works with FSX on my F: drive with no problems.

cheers,
Lane

[Bill Kestell]

So I would have thought. My problem is that it doesn't want to let me change the location. I'll keep trying 'cause if it works for you it should work for me.

Having your "tute" will let me do this fix wherever needed. I noticed that KGRB is also a little off. Nothing like KOSH, but there's no reason it should not put you right down the centerline of the runway.

Thanks again.

[Lane Street]

it doesn't want to let me change the location.

What doesn't let you change the location of what? Not sure exactly what you are trying to do.

there's no reason it should not put you right down the centerline of the runway.

That might be true at green Bay, not all ILS will line up with the centerline. That is not the purpose of the ILS.

The ILS is there to provide you with vertical and lateral guidance to get you to a point where you can see the runway and land the plane.

As an example Rwy 22R @KJFK- http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1411/00610I22R.PDF

The localizer is next to the runway and the ILS heading is 222 degrees while the runway is 225 degrees.

If you were to try to "autoland' a plane there you would end up in Jamaica Bay.

cheers,
Lane

[Bill Kestell]

No speakee Inglish!

As Dick Nixon said: Let me be perfectly clear about this (or something to that effect).

When I open up and run ADE, I am not able to change the drive in which it will open up. Mine will only open in C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator 9\scenery\Namc\scenery.

That FS9 is my test bed location and download location, but I fly all my FS9 installs (5 complete, separate installs).
In this case, I would want it to open up in D\FS9 MODERN COMPLETE, but ADE will not let me change the destination.

Once running:

Open Stock Airport > Airport List > United States > Wisconsin > Oshkosh > KOSH. OK to that point, but:

On the right side of the page, near the bottom, is: Folder: C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator 9\scenery\Namc\scenery. Thus far, no matter what I've tried, I cannot change this.

More clear now? I am able to highlight that address in the Folder ... but neither BACKSPACE, DELETE, ENTER cause it to go black so I can insert the replacement address. I have to believe that I am NOT doing something properly.

Hope this helps you solve MY problem.

Cheers,

Bill

PS, at least now I know to look in scenery/Namc/scenery in order to copy the fix.

[Tom Clayton]

Agreed, except Afcad cannot fix the approach.

cheers,
Lane

You'd be surprised at what it can do. First, hit the "A" key to show the nav-aids. Use your mouse wheel to zoom in, then push the mouse wheel (middle click) to drag the approach onto the screen. Double-click the runway to verify the heading - in this case, 180.540°. The opposite of that would of course be 360.540°, so make a mental note of that, then close the properties box. Next, double-click the localizer cone itself. Key in the correct heading in the space provided. When you close that, you'll see the angle of the cone line up perfectly with the runway. Save the changes, and AFCAD will, by default, put your new airport file into the correct location.

AFCAD can do just about anything to your airport that does not rise up above the 2D ground layout. For buildings, taxiway signs, etc., then the more advanced programs gain advantage.

[Lane Street]

I speak perfectly good English, what I cannot do is read minds.

That FS9 is my test bed location and download location, but I fly all my FS9 installs (5 complete, separate installs).
In this case, I would want it to open up in D\FS9 MODERN COMPLETE, but ADE will not let me change the destination.

That I did not know.

Now that I do, open ADE and go to Tools > New User Wizard.

Click on "Next" twice and you should see a box where you can change the install path for FS9.

By default, ADE is using the Registry entry to locate FS9, this is where you can change that, without having to change the Registry.

Or you can leave it alone and simply copy the ADE-generated .bgl files wherever you want them. The default data should be the same in your 5 different installs and this setting really only tells ADE where to find the default data.

If you are working from an ADE project file (.ad2, ad3, ad4) or from a .bgl (not really a good idea unless you are modifying someone else's work) then it doesn't matter where FS9 is. You should always be able to navigate to the desired file.

The same when it comes time to compile, you should be able to compile to the desired FS9 install.

The only time it really matter that ADE is working with the correct FS9 instance is when you alter an airport's elevation or name. Then ADE would need to be working on the right FS9 instance so the "stub afcad" gets written to the proper ...\Scenery\World\scenery.

PS, at least now I know to look in scenery/Namc/scenery in order to copy the fix.

Hopefully you are not either..

a) replacing a default file or..

b) compiling your ADE generated .bgl to that location.

Replacing a default file, which can contain hundreds of airports, will kill all of those except the airport you are working on.

ADE-generated .bgl files need to be placed in a scenery area with higher priority in the Scenery Library than the default files or they will not work properly.

Hope this gets you squared away.

cheers,
Lane

[Bill Kestell]

Lane Street ...

Sorry that you thought I was complaining about YOUR English comprehension ... but I was really making fun of MY lack of communication skills since I realized after I posted, that while I knew what I was trying to say ... I was NOT at all clear in explaining what I was seeing and doing. Without complete information you can't get a correct solution.

I tried the tools drop down and that solved my problem of where ADE is opening ... you're 2 for 2 and I'm going to hit "print" on this latest tutorial as well and hang on to it. I know I will need them in the future and also know that I will most likely forget one or more of the steps and wonder why it doesn't work now like it did before.

Cheers,

Bill

[Lane Street]

No worries, Bill. It's all in good fun.

Happy that you are squared away.

Happy flying, and designing.

cheers,
Lane