Razbam Metroliner.

**Anthin** · October 31st, 2014, 17:59

A couple of questions about this aircraft,to any who have it.
Is there an easy fly , eg. can you load the plane and the engine is
running? I ask this as I am unable due to health problems to spend
a lot of time on the computer.

Second question. What is the glass like ? is it clear with subdued reflections,
or is it milky or hazy?

Regards Anthin.

**heywooood** · October 31st, 2014, 19:15

The Glass is clear with subtle reflections - the cockpit is nice with excellent lighting
However - I have had it for 4 days now and after searching the internet and carefully reading the manual and checklists - I cannot start the engines to save my life. There is no quick start ctrl+E or similar option for this aircraft.

I have had it with this one - and it is frustrating because it is a beautiful model with only marginal impact on FPS compared to equally detailed models from other sources.

But - for whatever reason - I cant get it to light.

**StormILM** · October 31st, 2014, 22:43

Once the start flow is learned, the process is fairly fast start to finish. The below video is very informative to get you up and running as well as help cover additional systems:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9dVyVYg6kY

**Anthin** · October 31st, 2014, 22:51

Thanks guys for your response. Appreciated and will think on this.

Regards Anthin.

**Maj Kong** · November 1st, 2014, 04:22

Originally Posted by heywooood

I have had it with this one - and it is frustrating because it is a beautiful model with only marginal impact on FPS compared to equally detailed models from other sources.
But - for whatever reason - I cant get it to light.

Sorry to report the same, switches hard to find and engine no start, and like Anthin, I don't have time to waste trying to find out how to get a plane flying---uninstalled it and went back to Majestic Q400.

**Pepere** · November 1st, 2014, 05:00

I've ditched this one too. When it's not fun to fly it's dumped or if possible I replace the VC with a simple one.

David

***Killbilly*** · November 1st, 2014, 05:11

I don't own this bird, but I'm considering it as well. Have any of you owners looked through the panel.cfg file for the gauges that control the start-up sequence and commented them out? I remember doing this for one of my previous payware purchases when I wasn't in the mood for a long start. Sometimes I like going through the systems, but sometimes I just want to fly. Commenting out certain gauges may help with this one.

***Ferry_vO*** · November 1st, 2014, 05:54

Switching from a default aircraft the Metroliner will be running already, you just need to start a couple of systems to get it flying correctly which is not all that hard.

**heywooood** · November 1st, 2014, 08:16

Originally Posted by Ferry_vO

Switching from a default aircraft the Metroliner will be running already, you just need to start a couple of systems to get it flying correctly which is not all that hard.

Yes - I did that - used the default Baron and switched to the Metro - it worked insofar as I was able to fly it...but since the start up is modeled as 'realistic' and the insta-start ctrl+e is negated, I expect it to work.
I see I am not alone in that it does NOT work as it should. I much prefer a cold dark cockpit but would welcome any method that does not include loading a default and switching - just kills the whole deal for me.

@ Storm - yes I have seen that vid and a few others, but when I follow the methods shown I get no joy - the plane refuses to start...I get the starter signature whine..but no ignition
...oddly the whine seems to initiate on switching to external view - more rare to hear it in the VC at least for me.

its a beautiful airframe

***wombat666*** · November 1st, 2014, 08:43

I use the method Ferry has posted.
But...it really irks me that there is not choice between the 'kick the tyres and light the fires' start up for us normal people and the 'check everything and go through the entire procedure' enthusiasts.
It REALLY CAN'T be that hard to code or am I just obtuse.
Of course, this not the only aircraft with this (IMHO) built in bug.

**SeanTK** · November 1st, 2014, 08:58

How are your control axis mapped? Perhaps you have something that's mapped to a mixture lever which could be shut off (or receiving interference) and preventing fuel from reaching the engines.

I've never had any issues with this aircraft. I fly it on a routine basis and everything works like a charm, and it doesn't take a lengthy period of time (just a couple minutes) to startup from cold and dark.

If you are following the checklist precisely, you shouldn't have problems with the aircraft. Don't guess, don't assume, and don't rush through things when you first start out. Just follow the documentation provided, closely. If you are unable to comprehend aircraft checklists, or addons that require more than Ctrl-E to start, than this addon is not for you.

**ncooper** · November 1st, 2014, 09:37

Problems with more complex aircraft models are often seated
in the default flight that the user has saved.
The best way, in my opinion, is to make a default flight with the
Cessna 172 and set the aircraft into the state you wish, ie cold and dark
and then save it.
You can then load this default flight and select the more complex addon.
It should also be cold and dark and start as the designer intended.
Once this has been established, the more complex aircraft can be saved in
this flight for future reference and flown without problems.

Sometimes, saved problems can be removed by reloading the aircraft, there is
an FSX command for this, Aircraft (reload) but it will need a key or button assigning
to it as there is none by default.

Virtually all of these kinds of problem can be solved by careful selection of the
default flight, whether FSX default or one created by the user and set as default
and then a little reading of the manual that is always supplied but often not
consulted.

It is not an accident that the designers of some of the most complex aircraft
models include a gauge which can either be used to set the aircraft state after it has
been loaded ( ie A2A B17) or that sets itself after the aircraft has loaded
(ie Project Tupolev Tu 154B).

In the case of the A2A aircraft, the CTRL+E user is also catered for with an autostart.
There is also an option to switch off the subsequent management required to prevent engine
failure, fires and an eventual crash.
Doing either of these would of course defeat any purpose in buying such an exceptional aircraft model.
I agree with SeanTK that some aircraft are just not suited to all users.

Regards,
Nick

**Bjoern** · November 1st, 2014, 09:37

"Cold and Dark" default flights with the mixture levers set to "full lean" (0%) will, for whatever reason, also break jet aircraft.
So either save a default flight with the mixture set to 100% or press CTRL+SHIFT+F4 when starting up a jet aircraft.

**mjrhealth** · November 1st, 2014, 11:39

Originally Posted by Bjoern

"Cold and Dark" default flights with the mixture levers set to "full lean" (0%) will, for whatever reason, also break jet aircraft.
So either save a default flight with the mixture set to 100% or press CTRL+SHIFT+F4 when starting up a jet aircraft.

What HE said . Default flight must be saved with both fuel tanks selectd and Fuel on or you will have problems

**ncooper** · November 1st, 2014, 11:46

I tried to keep it simple but with the myriad of addon aircraft
that was probably a mistake.
You are both of course absolutely right if either the jet to be flown
has no fuel controls or the aircraft has no compatible fuel tank selector.

It does help though, to prove the point that a saved flight can very
easily prevent a different aircraft from working as it should.

Regards,
Nick.

**heywooood** · November 1st, 2014, 11:55

Originally Posted by mjrhealth

What HE said . Default flight must be saved with both fuel tanks selectd and Fuel on or you will have problems

well while I appreciate the feedback for the most part I think it necessary to explain that I understand the FSX factor when using complex aircraft... I can work the buttons and read the manuals and checklists just fine.
I fly cerasim, milviz and ND/Milviz helo's in FSX routinely and they have the same issues with fuel switches and mixture settings as you mention above.

I have worked the problem from that angle and it has not helped me start the Metro.

Maybe there is some other issue or fault between the download and the installation - I have already uninstalled and re-installed twice but who knows...I will keep trying to resolve it but believe me - I have not had this frustration with any other
plane or helo I own.

**heywooood** · November 1st, 2014, 16:55

OK - I got it to work.

After the last re-installation and for no other detectable reason...I have a working Metroliner
I don't know what the problem was precisely, and I had tried twice before, along with every other option I could find, to get the Metroliner to start from a cold dark cockpit and nothing worked.

It does now.
It must have been a cockup somewhere between download and installation as I completely removed the last one and re downloaded AND re-installed this time.

I want anyone who was influenced by my earlier remarks to reconsider as the issue I presented was NOT a Razbam issue but my own...apparently

The bird is still on sale @ JustFlight for $20 and if you should need it - re-downloading your purchased file is free and unlimited, unlike some other vendors out there...

**StormILM** · November 1st, 2014, 18:22

In addition to making sure the default aircraft setup as mentioned above is good to go, I would recommend to those having trouble to uninstall and re-install the package again but this time run the installer as Administrator and make sure all AV programs are temporarily off. See if this helps to clear the bug.

This brings up a valid point which is that in a model of this complexity, if I were in the Dev's shoes, I would add a selectable option of either engines running or cold and dark or a quick start button that brings everything up and running with a single flight of a switch. Such features I have used are good for helping a wider group of users obtain good use from such products as well as giving us experienced by the book users an option to quick start for multi-player or for testing purposes.

**joanvalley** · November 2nd, 2014, 15:45

I am the modeler of this aircraft and It is the first I do with Razbam, so when I talked to Ron about bringing it to FSX, the idea was to best represent the actual aircraft with this project and also It's the first passenger aircraft (civilian transport) that Razbam was doing so we wanted to do a great first impression with it but that meant going a bit complex and the easy part was left out mostly.

Having said that, I myself am a "soft" user of FS add-ons, meaning that I like things basic and uncomplicated, that's why and reflecting on all your voices, I talked to Ron after the Metro had been released so for future projects we can add the function to make it a default-type of model (crtl + e will start the engines, etc) but having the option to go full "hard-core" systems or vice-versa. I'm really happy with the result of the Metroliner but I feel your pain when you say It's a bit complicated for some tastes, therefore I'm really excited on future releases that will incorporate this option of systems simplicity. As for the Metro, please understand that It may be very difficult and time consuming to change/adjust lots and lots of coding that went into the making of it, nevertheless, Larry incorporated some things to make it simpler.

I love seeing how some of you like the model and I wish that was the case for everybody, but believe me, I'm working on it to integrate us all, basic an hard-core alike, so we can enjoy all of our future projects starting with the Emb-120 which is also mine.

Keep talking about it guys, good or not so good comments, I hear you and thank you.

Jose Valdez.
3D modeler.

***Bushpounder*** · November 2nd, 2014, 15:49

You did a GREAT job, Jose. I love this thing! Thank you and the team!!

Don

***Roger*** · November 2nd, 2014, 16:47

Thanks for coming on this thread Jose

We appreciate devs participation in threads like this.

**strykerpsg** · November 2nd, 2014, 19:44

Originally Posted by heywooood

Yes - I did that - used the default Baron and switched to the Metro - it worked insofar as I was able to fly it...but since the start up is modeled as 'realistic' and the insta-start ctrl+e is negated, I expect it to work.
I see I am not alone in that it does NOT work as it should. I much prefer a cold dark cockpit but would welcome any method that does not include loading a default and switching - just kills the whole deal for me.

@ Storm - yes I have seen that vid and a few others, but when I follow the methods shown I get no joy - the plane refuses to start...I get the starter signature whine..but no ignition
...oddly the whine seems to initiate on switching to external view - more rare to hear it in the VC at least for me.

its a beautiful airframe

Heywood,

What scenery are you using in this shot? I had to do a double take as I thought it was a shot of a real bird, until I saw the typical patchy green/black areas in the background typical to FSX. Though the Metroliner isn't my kind of thing, scenery is and that shot is fantastic!

PS, did the static aircraft come with the scenery too? Again, great looking scenery.

Matt

**rvn817j** · November 3rd, 2014, 05:28

I purchased your work last week and have flown it several times (with engines running...not cold and dark). It looks fantastic and has the feel of a twin commuter...just like it should. I'll get some more time with it, but first impressions are great!