London-Melbourne 2014: P3D

[MM]

At salt_air's excellent suggestion, we'll move discussion of P3D and the London-Melbourne over here to this more specialized thread. Doing so, we can focus on the problems and solutions here. And we can let the "Help" thread open up for the vital matter of getting newcomers up to speed on these sorts of events.

[robert41]

As a FSX user, I would have no problems with P3D users, using the Duenna, on pilots honor.

[MM]

At the moment, the tests indicate that the Duenna does not read the proper starting configuration for a flight. (It knows how to handle FSX, FS2004, and even FS2002. But the program was completed before P3D came on the scene.)

Right now, the Duenna cannot ascertain some critical realism settings. From Ed's post, we see that it cannot verify that Ed had the correct settings for Crash Detection, Stress Damage, Unlimited Fuel, and Crash Tolerance.

Info: REALISM/CrashDetection: '0' (NOT GOOD)
Info: REALISM/StressDamage: '' (NOT GOOD)
Info: REALISM/UnlimitedFuel: '' (NOT GOOD)
Info: Weather/LoadWeather: '0' (NOT GOOD)
Info: REALISM/CrashTolerance: '0'

Neither can it handle the weather situation. In the London-Melbourne we allow the pilot to employ not only FSX/FS9 weather but also the freeware FSrealWX and the payware Active Sky and Opus (all in several versions). Thus, we in any case have to rely on the pilot's using the weather that he declared in his original entry. A pilot's honor thing.

All the other sorts of monitoring, for the in-flight parameters, do seem to be picked up by the Duenna. It can identify the locations of the departure/destination airports, it tracks the route with some precision, it gives the takeoff/landing/empty weights and the fuel consumption, it reports the flight timing and gives variable but frequent readings on the flight's status (air speed, winds, altitude, climb/descent, etc). It reveals stoppages, slew instances, time acceleration, overspeeds, crashes, and other sorts of incidents. All this we get from the Duenna's partial operation for our P3D participants.

As for the other realism settings, Crash Detection, Stress Damage, Unlimited Fuel, and Crash Tolerance, how should we go about reminding the P3D pilot to be sure that he has the correct settings?

(Remember, the Duenna is NOT absolutely foolproof. Even in FS9 and FSX, pilots who want to cheat can always do so if they make the effort. The reason for the Duenna is to remind pilots to do the right thing and then authenticate their successes to the rest of the community.)

We would love to hear suggestions about how this might work. We want a procedure that is simple and easy. At the very least, we want to remind the pilot that he is personally certifying that his realism settings are correct on this leg. We may not get something that is cheat-proof. What do you think?

Just to get started:

Suggestion 1. In his departure post, the P3D pilot must personally certify that his realism settings are compliant. If he later discovers that a setting was incorrect, he simply restarts the leg with the correct settings and without penalty.

For example:

MM departing for Allahabad.
MM certifies correct realism settings for P3D:
Crash Detection (Enabled), Aircraft Stress Causes Damage (Enabled),
Unlimited Fuel (Not-ticked), and Crash Tolerance (Slider Full Right).

And the pilot leaves after the self-declaration. The Duenna will do the rest…

Eager to hear improvements and alternatives.

[flyon]

As per MM's request, I am now going to provide feedback, in the hopes it can help out the race admins, or anyone wanting to run Duenna in P3D.
I have taken the liberty to try to install Duenna into P3D, and I did have success in doing so (thanks to Mike's help).
I will now offer up what I came up with experimenting with the Duenna in P3D, as done in a test flight tonight:

I installed Duenna as one normally would, along with the last update, in my P3D v2 location: not on my C drive, but my internal H drive -as can be seen in the txt file.
I did get the same error messages as Ed and Mike did, as can be seen in my Duenna txt file.
All realism settings were as in FSX or FS9: crash detection, collisions, overstressed engines, the works. Nothing left to chance.
The weather was my biggest concern, being I don't have my REX for FSX installed into P3D. Not sure if the REX can be installed with the EMT (Haven't researched that REX thing yet, and I refuse to buy that migration P3D addon until it becomes absolutely necessary -but that's another topic for another time...). I have had no success with FSRealWX in FSX, so I decided to try out the default weather in P3D.
It did take some fidgeting around, and after trying out different settings, I have found that by going advanced, you can set it to what the current weather might be(?) -in this case, Thailand.
Now if this was the actual weather at the time of my flight tonight there in Thailand, I'm not sure. It did show as 8 kts. wind at Bangkok Intl.,

most of the flight had 22 kt. headwind coming from the west, and I did hit some nasty turbulence at 11,000 feet a few times along the way...
I really don't know if this was truly accurate, being I refuse to google any current weather conditions in that part of the world (a good way to get malware on your pc imo), and dummy me didn't think to plan a flight stateside at the time.

After exiting and rebooting P3D with the right combination of weather settings, I proceeded to do the flight as Mike explained how to do it earlier today.

As I show in the upcoming screenshots, everything did go good, with only one error the whole flight. Where that error comes from is beyond me.
I had the flight tracking on, so anyone could have joined along and watched me do this flight from start to finish. I landed safely, and it was done in real time, with no time compression used.



In closing, I also show (in some screenshots below) how I set my weather, in case it may help out others here if they do decide to try out the Duenna in thier own version of P3D -whether it be for the upcoming event, or for P3D flight education/flight simming in general.


A disclaimer: I did not upgrade to P3D v2.4, as I am still using 2.3. I will not upgrade to 2.4 until it is mandatory.
2.3 runs perfect on my pc now, and that's with me running two monitors and every gauge possible open on my second screen with a locked 20 fps in Carenado and Carenado-quality aircraft -I don't want to mess that up with any unproven upgrade.
20 fps probably doesn't sound good to the rest of you guys, but it suits me fine, has no stutters, and it runs as smooth as glass. For me, it's almost perfect. I definitely can't say that about my FSX...

Pics, txt file and wx settings from tonight's flight:

Aircraft used: the CLS A340-300 in Singapore Airlines livery. One of my faves. A great heavy imo:



How I set the wx:


Duenna scare, but it turns out OK:



Validation:


FlightLog_22-38-07.TXT

http://fs-duenna.com/flights/ShowFli...HG3nCJ8HZyGAns

[Demious]

I installed Duenna, but I'm having trouble setting up an account. I clicked 'Login' and then 'Create New Account' and entered my email address, but I dont get a email response, or further options to create an account with username and password, so I still cant log on.
Can someone please tell me how to complete my account?

[falcon409]

It seems that the two main sticking points for users of P3D are the weather and the realism settings. Also, as seen in my log file is the fact that the Duenna wants to read the FS9.cfg file, which obviously isn't present in P3D, so that's not gonna happen and I don't know what info, relevant to the flight, it would require anyway. So three things in total. Here's my view on each of the previous two:

Real World weather is not going to be implemented in P3D, LM has left that to the discretion of the individual as to how we handle that. . .either setting static weather scenarios or using a payware or freeware weather engine. To me, "static weather" is not real world weather. Over a 600 or 700nm trip the weather is not going to stay the same. . .the geography of the various regions and weather patterns dictate that, so either use FSrealWX_lite or purchase a weather program. I flew the entire RTWR last year with it showing yellow in the Duenna and all my flights were validated as good flights. . .I use FSreaWX_lite and it works very well. . .it may not be as dynamic as the payware weather engines, but it does what I want it to. . .it generates weather and based on what I saw and heard from various pilots during the RTWR, the weather wasn't consistent across the board anyway, it seems that no matter how good the weather engine "should be", there's still a possibility that you'll see clear blue in Vegas when it's actually overcast.

It appears that the Duenna, once the flight has begin, tracks as it would for any other participant. . .so I don't see any problem with that once we're in the air. As for the realism settings, nothing we do in P3D is going to change the fact that the Duenna was not designed to read P3D so despite having the settings correct, the Duenna is not going to give us a "green". My suggestion is to have P3D pilots set the correct realism settings, take a screenshot of those settings and submit it as proof. Then it's up to us as pilots to stick to those settings. If this item is actually where the division lies with us participating then it comes down to what the committee decides. If the screenshot isn't acceptable, if the Committee feels that it must have a green light from the Duenna prior to takeoff then it's out of our hands as pilots. . .we won't be able to fly any gatherings until the Duenna is updated to read P3D and I don't see that happening any time soon. . .if it was a simple rewrite it would have been done by now.

[MM]

@Flyon: thanks for the test. So far, so good.

We are all going to have to use a "live" weather engine. So it is great to see your experiments with the P3D v2.3 internal weather. Do we know if the P3D "Advanced Weather" changes as you fly along your route? Do we know how often it updates the weather? Do we know the source of the weather updates?

For these sorts of events, it is critical that participants face the uncertainty and challenge of dealing with unknown and changeable weather.

Our expectation is that P3D users would employ one of the alternative weather engines: FSrealWx, Active Sky, Opus. If the new version of P3D has an active live-updating weather engine, then maybe that will be just fine. If the weather is static, as Ed (falcon409) indicates, then the P3D engine will prove inadequate for our purposes.

Can others help out by telling all of us more about the P3D internal weather engine?

--M

[falcon409]

Here is a link to the "Advanced Weather"option in P3D:
http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv2/Learni...dvancedWeather

It appears that if you know what the "current" weather is for various regions along your flight path you can set those individually and then save and as you enter the various weather regions, that weather will change. While very comprehensive and time consuming depending on how many regions or weather reporting stations you want to set, it's not Real World Weather. As I mentioned above and will restate here. . .P3D does not have a RWW function, it does not receive periodic updates on the weather from any outside entity. Any settings done using the weather functions in P3D are "static" weather only. LM has stated that and has left it to the users to handle that on their own. So again, we are looking at one of the payware weather programs or the freeware offering "FSrealWX_lite".

So just to be clear and I don't know how much clearer it can get. . .While P3D can emulate very complex weather systems/scenarios and those systems can be changed over the length of a flight by adjusting the weather settings at various reporting stations along the route. . .it is not Real World Weather, it is nothing more than pre-set weather scenarios. P3D does not get any weather updates from outside reporting stations.

[Demious]

I've been testing Duenna, today and can confirm what Ed sais. I'm using ASNext and get a yellow for weather and realism settings give red.

[SkippyBing]

If, and it's a moderately sized if, I can write a program to check the Prepar3D.cfg for the realism settings pre, post and during flight and write them to a text file would that help?
It should also be possible to make it poll for the weather at the station nearest the aircraft every half hour or so which would at least give an indication that it varied along the flight path, if not that it was dynamic.
This would be an extra file for the committee to check but it would essentially be a back up in case the overall result looked dubious.

Obviously my main motivation is self interest as having done about 14 hours of route proving in the Mew Gull using P3D I'd hate to have to fly in FSX to be considered in the competition!

[flyon]

...P3D does not have a RWW function, it does not receive periodic updates on the weather from any outside entity. Any settings done using the weather functions in P3D are "static" weather only.

Right. As in my flight last night, it did give me sudden turbulence about fifty miles in on a hundred and nine nm flight. Only for a couple of minutes, and then it was mostly 15-22 kts. the rest of the way in. Not very realistic imo.
I did a flight tonight for close to the same distance, and it was about 8 kts. the whole way. A veritable snooze-fest.

LM has stated that and has left it to the users to handle that on their own.

That is the only real disappointment overall I do have with P3D. I take it that applies to the $199 and $2300 versions also? Yuck.

[spokes2112]

Ever since FS9 there has been a setting in Duenna that will look for an alternate "flightsim".cfg file because of the facilities provided in FS(9/X/+) to create alternate .cfg(s) depending on the simmers needs on running the sim (hardware etc..). Duenna will not be able to provide the "automatic" location because of the changes in FSUIPC to provide for P3D. (Offset 3308)

As you can see Duenna was looking for FS2002 because Duenna couldn't get the correct path as P3D is newer than the last version of
Duenna for FSX. Make sure Duenna is the newest at v0.891 R131.

The fix "MAY" be,,,, - use the Duenna "Settings" page and use the "FS9.cfg (when non-std)" field to enter in the whole path to "prepare3d.cfg".



Locations (Use Windows Explorer and not the folder shortcuts below - unknown because of OS versions) -
Prepar3D v1: %APPDATA%\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D\prepare3d.cfg
Prepar3D v2: %APPDATA%\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\prepare3d.cfg

Duenna gets all the "realism" settings from the "flightsim".cfg and should work as long as prepare3d.cfg contains these entries.

[REALISM] (FSX & FS9)
CrashDetection=True
CrashTolerance=1.000000
General=1.000000
StressDamage=True
UnlimitedFuel=False
PFactor=1.00000
Torque=1.000000
GyroEffect=1.000000

Note - 1 or 0 can be replaced with True or False if the setting is boolean.

The above is REQUIRED for realism confirmation in Duenna. Below is what happens for weather settings.

[Weather] (FSX & FS9)
DisableTurbulence=0 (POSSIBLY IN P3D)
DownloadWindsAloft=1 (NOT P3D)

From this point and still in the "flightsim".cfg Duenna will look for the primary weather setting. (Download real) This setting is
not in the "flightsim".cfg at all although download winds aloft and disable turbulence are. It is in the flight (.flt) file though.
Duenna then looks for this "default loading" (NOT FS(s) default.flt) flight by looking in the "flightsim".cfg in the following section.

[USERINTERFACE]
SITUATION=D:\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\previous

or, as an example

[USERINTERFACE]
SITUATION=D:\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\MacRobertson_Start

Note - This is the flight that FS loads up to at the very start.

In FSX only,, FSX creates a copy of the above situation named "Previous flight.FLT" on startup and places it in %APPDATA%\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX where Duenna reads from that. In FS9 and previous (assumed) reads the following from the above situation or from UI generated flight.flt in the My Documents\Flight Simulator Files folder.

From this path and flight file Duenna reads the following in the above read *.flt file.

[Weather]
WeatherType=3 (REAL WX)

[Weather]
WeatherType=2 (USER DEFINED, or, use of a WX injecting program)

Now again, this may work at least for the realism part of the Duenna since P3D does not have real WX facilities. This also may not
work because Duenna thinks this is FS2002 and an alternate "flightsim".cfg was not available for FS2002 and Duenna may not read the
alternate "flightsim".cfg in the setting page because Duenna thinks it has it. One last thing, if the "prepare3d.cfg" or *.flt file
(s) are in a alternate file type other than straight text, XML for instance, it will not work.

Good Luck!

Reminder - Restart P3D after making realism settings. Save settings & restart Duenna after making path changes.

EDIT - I did a test in FSX by going to C:\Users\Romy\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX and creating another fsx.cfg named prepare3d.cfg then putting the following into the settings of Duenna "C:\Users\Romy\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX\prepa re3d.cfg" , saving settings then restarting Duenna for a quick baton pickup/release. The following is the output -

 Errors:

Info: Specified Configuration-File: C:\Users\Romy\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX\prepare3d.cfg
Info: REALISM/CrashTolerance: '1.000000' (OK)
Info: REALISM/CrashDetection: 'True' (OK)
Info: REALISM/StressDamage: 'True' (OK)
Info: REALISM/UnlimitedFuel: 'False' (OK)
Info: Previous Flight.FLT/Weather/WeatherType: '3' (OK)
Info: Weather/DownloadWindsAloft: '1' (OK)
Info: Weather/DisableTurbulence: '0' (OK)

[falcon409]

Attached in the log file from the Duenna for a short flight after making changes noted above both to the Duenna and the prepar3D.cfg file (I think).

[spokes2112]

Thanks for testing

The prepare3d.cfg file should not be modified at all, just check to see if indeed the above entries exist. P3D as FSX does, will overwrite the complete .cfg occasionally, especially on a menu entry/exit.

It looks like the setting for an alternate "simulation.cfg" was either rejected or not entered properly.

15.10.2014 16:29:44z ERROR: FS9.CFG is not readable: Can't open 'C:\Users\falcon409\AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2' for reading: 75 - Path/File access error

Info: Specified Configuration-File: C:\Users\falcon409\AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2

Where it should get or be entered into settings as

C:\Users\falcon409\AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\prepare3d.cfg

Where is looks for the .cfg directly. Now if P3D locks this file from being accessed then we're SOL.

[falcon409]

Thanks for testing

The prepare3d.cfg file should not be modified at all, just check to see if indeed the above entries exist. P3D as FSX does, will overwrite the complete .cfg occasionally, especially on a menu entry/exit.
It looks like the setting for an alternate "simulation.cfg" was either rejected or not entered properly.

15.10.2014 16:29:44z ERROR: FS9.CFG is not readable: Can't open 'C:\Users\falcon409\AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2' for reading: 75 - Path/File access error
Info: Specified Configuration-File: C:\Users\falcon409\AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2

Where it should get or be entered into settings as
C:\Users\falcon409\AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\prepare3d.cfg

Where is looks for the .cfg directly. Now if P3D locks this file from being accessed then we're SOL.

Yep, I realized that after the fact. Went back and completed the path and this was the next attempt. . .getting closer:

Info: Specified Configuration-File: C:\Users\falcon409\AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\prepar3D.cfg
Info: REALISM/CrashDetection: 'True' (NOT GOOD)
Info: REALISM/StressDamage: 'True' (OK)
Info: REALISM/UnlimitedFuel: 'False' (OK)
Info: Weather/LoadWeather: '0' (NOT GOOD)
Info: REALISM/CrashTolerance: '1.000000'

Those were all (NOT GOOD) before.

[spokes2112]

Now why in the heck is
Info: REALISM/CrashDetection: 'True' (NOT GOOD)
in your report while in my FSX report it is
Info: REALISM/CrashDetection: 'True' (OK)

MMMM sure is getting closer. Would be nice to have for the P3D flyers. We all know that WX will never report correct.

Please keep trying and concentrate on the crash detection settings in P3D.

Thanks.

EDIT After looking at FSUIPC offsets it looks like the crash detection offset is the same. (0840) Meaning even though P3D will report REALISM/CrashDetection: 'True' (NOT GOOD) (WHY ???) while in fact it is on, Duenna will still detect a crash @ 0840.

Falcon - I looked at the flight you did for the past test on duenna live tracking. Indeed Duenna reported the crash. Maybe because of the crash the Info: REALISM/CrashDetection: 'True' (NOT GOOD) reported it that way because you were already crashed. Maybe try a flight where it will be successful. Fingers crossed.

[MM]

Very impressive progress here.

By the way, the following realism settings (which many veteran pilots choose for the challenge involved) ARE NOT NECESSARY for the London-Melbourne Race.

PFactor=1.000000
Torque=1.000000
GyroEffect=1.000000

All this is looking better and better for P3D.

[spokes2112]

Falcon,

Found something.. Is there a setting something like "Crash only into ground" in P3D? Here is the reason. In time format.

On Ground - ALL good
15/10/2014 17:26:03; 33.713425; -96.667378; 752; 0; 0; 0; 1

17 seconds later - not on ground
15/10/2014 17:26:20; 33.713409; -96.667353; 764; 208; 3; 2; 0

1 second later,
Off ground - NOT GOOD
15.10.2014 17:26:19z ERROR: Realism-Settings are not valid!
15.10.2014 17:26:19z AT N 33* 42.8' / W 96* 40.0' at 759ft GS:2kts, IAS:1kts, VS:165ft/min
15.10.2014 17:26:19z STATE
15.10.2014 17:26:19z AIRCRAFT Bell47G FSX NO DOORS / Counter 1

32 seconds later - CRASH
15.10.2014 17:26:51z ERROR NEW: [not crashed]
15.10.2014 17:26:51z AT N 33* 42.7' / W 96* 40.3' at 756ft (F39/0.3nm) GS:0kts, IAS:0kts, VS:-2554ft/min
15.10.2014 17:26:51z STATE [CRASHED]
15.10.2014 17:26:51z AIRCRAFT Bell47G FSX NO DOORS / Counter 1
15.10.2014 17:26:51z

Reported place of crash
15/10/2014 17:26:51; 33.712343; -96.671694; 756; -2554; 0; 0; 1
15/10/2014 17:26:51; 33.712343; -96.671694; 756; -2554; 0; 0; 1
15/10/2014 17:26:54; 33.712343; -96.671694; 756; -2554; 0; 0; 1

As for weather and trying to get at least a yellow box, test with the P3D WX settings at "User defined" .

[falcon409]

Roman,
Here's what the realism settings look like in V2.4:

[spokes2112]

Aww jeepers.

This is weird - "FLyon's flight here (.txt) triggered the realism right away. Checked the offsets between FSUIPC V3.99 & V4.xxx and they are all the same (030C, 02C8 & 0366) dealing with on ground etc..

If possible could one attach their prepare3d.cfg, a screenshot of the folder where it resides and a copy of a saved flight? (rename the .cfg and .flt to .txt) So close... and this may help.

[falcon409]

Here you are!Attachment 13353

[falcon409]

Aggravating. . .that image is 3 times the size it displays and I cannot find a way to keep the danged program from reducing it to a postage stamp.

[spokes2112]

Falcon,

Thanks for the files. The picture was big enough. :-) What is still weird is that I just seen your report from the OH-6A flight. Once again it toggled realism on take off. I looked at all the offsets that Duenna accesses in FSUIPC. Not one would have this effect. There is a whole bunch of stuff that Duenna takes care of that is not provided by FSUIPC, such as sim type (EX from report, Flight Simulator: BLANK). Maybe some of the monitoring facilities in FSUIPC are blocked by Duenna or it takes care of it on it's own, maybe by simconnect? (Will test later) One would be the FSUIPC equivalent offset 0830.

Just some tests for anyone wanting to use P3D and have the P3D path setup in Duenna.

1. A weird and undocumented setting that worked in FS02, not FS9/X, but yet in the ESP(10 equivalent)/P3D SDKs is the following.

CrashDetection True=Detect user aircraft crashes and respond according to the setting of OnCrashAction, False=ignore all crashes by "bouncing" the aircraft back into a safe flying state.

OnCrashAction In single player mode: 0=reset the flight from the beginning (the default), 1=end the flight, 2=leave the user aircraft in the crashed position. In multiplayer mode for options 0 and 1 a client will simply be returned to the briefing room, and the host will be left either in the crashed state (for missions), or the flight will be reset (for free flight). Option 2 works the same as for single player mode -- the user aircraft for both host and client will be left in the crashed position.

I noticed this setting in Falcon's prepare3d.cfg listed as (under [Realism]) OnCrashAction=1. There are some comparisons in FSUIPC v3.999 against 4.xxxx which I wont get into but changing this "may" have an affect. With P3D closed, modify the setting with 0 or 2 and then run P3D then finally a Duenna test flight.

2. Another test would be to try each of the above OnCrashAction numbers with Duenna in both the Auto Baton Pick-Up and the Manual Baton Pickup mode.

If willing to test, please use an airplane, a short (uncrashed) flight & use "enable online flight tracking". That way I can look at separate report .txt(s)

If this doesn't get it down pat then we're stuck as is unless Johannes can change the program. The weather type reads will never work as is because the .flt file is in XML. (needs program mod)

Good Luck..

[SkippyBing]

I started knocking up a separate programme last night to check P3D settings. Obviously that may not be needed know but I'll still keep working on it in case we need something extra.
As a quick test of what I've done so far, could someone with P3D run the attached file? It should open a DOS window which will tell you where the Prepar3D.cfg file is and what the relevant realism lines read, if you could get a screen grab of that and post it I'd appreciate it.
If that works I can add code to do the check after P3D has started and then monitor the realism settings in game* and if the user crashes via SimConnect. I should also be able to get it to check the nearest airfield's TAF at regular intervals which should at least indicate if the weather is static or not.

*Oddly SimConnect won't inform you if all the realism settings change but it covers if Crash Detection is turned on and if Fuel is unlimited.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20Marshall.zip

[falcon409]

Here's the screenshot!
Attachment 13362