What is everyone's opinion of what this gentleman is doing?
Is it right that he is selling what clearly looks to be like FSX screenshots of payware products with a bit of editing, and Lockon/DCS screenshots with no editing at all?
http://www.redbubble.com/people/skyv...works-aircraft
What gets me is that the implication is that he "drew" them himself, especially when you read the comments for each 3D artwork of the aircraft.......
Some of it certainly looks like FSX ...
I see nothing wrong with making a screenshot, turning it into something artistic with PS and selling prints of it. Just about the same as watching Bob Ross, trying to do what he does and selling the result at a yard sale.
The bigger problem is that I wouldn't want to buy any of the prints offered.
If you click on any of the pictures in the gallery to get a better look, at the bottom of each page is a "Report Copyright infringement" link. If you think he really is passing off others' work as his own the answer is in your own hands.
I'm with Bjoern: they're not something I'd pay money for.There is a member here does some really nice warbird artwork I'd pay cash for, if there was any spare!
Tom
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. Proverbs 4:7
I'm not seeing where he states he drew them himself. I see where he discusses getting into digital art which can mean almost anything.
As a youth I posed for an artist's painting. I had to wear certain clothes for a photo shoot, which was used with other photos for the painting. I guess that using FSX or FS9 images and enhancing them for sale as digital art is no different.
Art is in the eye of the beholder...as they say.
-- WH
If at first you don't succeed, try, try,try again. ... or go read the manual.
This is not okay. I understand that he's creating "art," but he's using someone else's art to do it. If I go out and take pictures of airplanes at the airshow, it's photography, it's art, and I can sell it. If I go to an art gallery and take pictures of others' paintings of aircraft on display (and especially for sale), it's still photography, it may be still art, but I can't sell it. This seems like the latter to me.
--Brian
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid.
If you hover your mouse over the work it says "by " and the name of the chap. The comments all congratulate the author on his artwork, yet the principle subject matter was clearly lifted from FS and is someone else's hard work with a new sky background. I wouldn't mind if he wasn't selling them or even asked for permission first....or even credited the 3D model and texturing to the original authors.Originally Posted by WarHorse47
I'm not seeing where he states he drew them himself. I see where he discusses getting into digital art which can mean almost anything.
As a youth I posed for an artist's painting. I had to wear certain clothes for a photo shoot, which was used with other photos for the painting. I guess that using FSX or FS9 images and enhancing them for sale as digital art is no different.
Art is in the eye of the beholder...as they say.
Real planes are the ultimate payware, so I see no difference in doing it in real life or in the sim. As long as he's the one who snapped the shutter or hit the V key, they're his.
I wouldn't pay for any of it, though.
So if I took a photo of the Mona Lisa and changed the background that is okay to pass off as my own work and sell it?
i don't think so.
Err, I take photos of aircraft I don´t own and sell them? Should be okay. So why not virtual aircraft...
I don't think this is even remotely the same thing, but as you are developer, I do understand where you are coming from. Granted, this man is cheating somewhat in selling this stuff as 'art'.
Interesting discussion.
Taking a photo of someone else's art, modifying it, and passing it off as my own digital art would seem improper.
So, are we considering FSX to be art??
To get back to your main post - which is to ask for an opinion - I don't see anything wrong with what he's doing. Perhaps it needs to be clarified as to the source of his digital art and what he is doing to modify or enhance the images.
-- WH
If at first you don't succeed, try, try,try again. ... or go read the manual.
This is really amateurish stuff but I'm not sure I recognize FS models? I've never considered screen shots as art anyway. All the work has pretty much been done for you. All you did was press a button. Having said that taking screens is a lot of fun, but I would never try to sell them. That's an interesting copyright question. It's Microsoft's sim, someone else's plane (maybe), possibly some addon textures, so who has the rights? I wouldn't think the screen shot taker can claim creative rights, even if you change the background.
As far as planes are involved, we all can do the same as this gentleman does. So we're all artists!
:-)
I see no harm in what he does.
Cees
Sometimes I'm slow to figure things out, so it just might be my slowness....but for the sake of argument, let's say that:
1. The guy selling them didn't take the screenshots
2. The guy selling them didn't do the altering of the background in the screenshots
3. They are clearly traceable to other people....
Now what? What is the "desired end state" in this thread if the guy is breaking all of the rules? Is the remedy to sue the guy for infringement of copyright? If so, who would sue him? Where would they get the tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees needed to do that? Are there actually people on this board willing to risk losing large amounts of personal capital to sue the guy over screenshots?
I understand being irritated about it, but I guess my real question is, how do we imagine this could be realistically resolved?
And not trying to be a smart a$$, I'm truly curious what people are thinking.
Kent
not sure what this fellow is really into. perhaps he is taking parts of other photos or screenshots and assembling these pieces into a final "artwork". Check out the Corsair dirty'd up and preparing to land from the front of the carrier.
A couple of years ago I had the idea of selling digital art for display on digital picture frames. I was going to contact various screenshot artist and see if I could license their work and offer it for sale on a website. But first I had to find out what Microsoft said about it. I never got a direct response from Microsoft but from others who had had similar ideas shared with me what they had found out. A person may create images and videos using Microsoft's products as long as the images remain hobby works or non-commercial. The moment a person makes a penny using a screen or video capture in whole or in part the work is considered "derivative" in that it's derived from Microsoft's product. The EULA specifically denies the right to make derivative work. The EULA for Lockheed/Martin's Prepar3d includes the same restriction.
I graduated from the Columbus College of Art and Design back in 1974, with a major in illustration. I learned early on not to get into discussions about what is and what isn't art. For me the more important question is, is it legal or not. If the aircraft or the backgrounds in the images come from FS or P3D in any form, regardless of how much they're modified, then it's not legal to sell them.
The Vulcan definitely looks like Kazunori Ito's version. (the giveaway being the smoothing groups on the ailerons). So that's something to think about.
All I would like is to have proper credit and/or the images featuring my work taken down. No point in going to court, they have been on sale for over a year, so nothing really to be gained except proper accreditation.
I just find it misleading that the fellow has not sought any kind of permission nor made any reference to flight sim as the foundation for some of his images.
If the images are being produced by the seller, then there's no real difference between this and - say - a still life.
I can't see that there's any harm in this, from the facts offered.
If you can prove that other people's work is being 'borrowed', then that's another issue.
If you can't, then it might be better to let it go.
Dave
Okay, (even I!) I get it now....
Thanks for the clarification.
Kent
Pretty sure that's my Beaufighter in there.
This pretty much sums up my opinion also.I just find it misleading that the fellow has not sought any kind of permission nor made any reference to flight sim as the foundation for some of his images.
I recognized your Beaufighter right off, Dave. Also, the OV-1D looks suspiciously like Tim Conrad's freeware model for FS9, and there are for sure some of the older Alphasim payware, (now freeware) models in there.
I don't see a problem if the bloke gives credit to the artist/developer who built the model. In the case of payware, that would help to promote sales. If he's saying that the work is his exclusively, then I have some pull with it.
BB686
"El gato que camina como hombre" -- The cat that walks like a man
I'm not going to offer an opinion one way or the other - it's a pretty hairy mess.
But - if you really want to get the stuff off the internet - then just issue a DMCA takedown order to his web hosting service. That requires the host to remove his stuff until he can prove to the host that it is legally his. You avoid court and all the legal fees - unless, of course, he turns the tables on you. But it is an easy first step.
"Being good is not enough when you dream of being great"
Author of NEUWUC family of programs
I sell digital artwork to publishers all the time, but it is my work. If the guy took the image on his computer, he has the right to post and/orsell it. If it isn't his image, he has no right to even post it.
Best, Michael
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