Request

[Wayland]

Okay! Back behind the stick again. Testing continues, and this is a great ride. Thanks to everyone who is taking part in this, you are turning out a world class fighter plane.

Steve

[Wayland]

Have been testing the Beta La-11 against other piston aircraft of the same vintage, and it stacks up very well. Good acceleration, light on the controls, manouvers very well, hits hard. Takeoff is smooth, landings no problems. Somewhat limited forward vision. Got to re-download a Sea Fury to test against, mine isn't working for some reason, but it hangs in with the F8F-2, F2G-2, P-51D, Spit 22, Seafire 47, Spiteful and Seafang very well. I did notice that visually, the cannons all seem to fire at the same time in a salvo. You can see the tracers going out side by side. Due to the medium-low rate of fire (550RPM), in a maouvering fight, I have had an opponent fly in between the salvoes and nd escape. On the flip side, the NS-23 packs enough power to put a fighter out with 2-3 hits. All in all, I have no qualms about flying an La-11 into a serious fight.

Steve

[UncleTgt]

Hi Wayland, I'm nearly ready to give this aircraft some attention next. I'm sure I can tweak the dp to avoid the "opponent flying through salvoes" issue.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Hi Wayland, I'm nearly ready to give this aircraft some attention next. I'm sure I can tweak the dp to avoid the "opponent flying through salvoes" issue.

The DP I sent is just the LA-9's renamed. I've been working the last three nights. So should be able to get to it Saturday nite.

The Wing Tanks are mapped. I just have to finish the textures and do the DP for it. Then I can do the adjustments for them in the Air and CFG.

Have you tried the Panel Morton made for the LA-9? You might have better visibility.

UT,

I'll pass along the tanks once I have them finished. How should they be painted? I'm having a hard time finding pic for them. Were they the same color as the AC?

[Wayland]

I have a late lavochkin panel set I'm going to try on her today. I picked it up years ago from either Flightsim or Simviation, don't remember which. It's by Mike Eustace, that's all I know about it. It's supposed to be for late La7, La9 and La-11. As soon as I shake it down with a couple test flights, I'll start flying agains early jets. I noticed the Morten La-9 doesn't have as much problem with the guns salvoing, maybe It's just perception on my part. Off to maintain my munddane existenc, back to testing this afternoon or evening.

Steve

[Wayland]

As far as tank color goes, all the photos I've see seem to be of the same overall color as the main airframe. It's hard to tell with B/W photography, but that's my best guess.

Steve

[Blood_Hawk23]

They are all done.

What do you think?


Korean textured tanks


Russian VVS textures.

I made three tanks. one set is for left and right. They are painted to match the Russian textures. The last one is just a single tank that can go on either side. Thats for the Korean texture.

I had no pictures to go by for the Russian set. So they are fictional. I can repaint them if someone finds a good pic to go by.

Wayland and UT,

They are on thier way to you.

[Wayland]

Great! I'll fit them later tonight or tomorrow morning. Mundania invaded my life this weekend, so I haven't done any testing for 2 day. Back to it tomorrow.Thanks a lot!

Steve

[Blood_Hawk23]

I've done a little DP work. I'll send it to both of you. UT, I used your DP and changed out the tanks. I've also removed the bombs.

Try this for the guns and tell me what you think.

[GUNSTATIONS]
; Port NS-23 23mm Cannon
gunstation.0=0,24,2,0.111,690,2,0.05,600,4,40,1d1*35,-0.48,0.5,0.95,-0.11965,0,0,0,0,0,0,6.02
; Port NS-23 23mm Cannon
gunstation.1=0,24,2,0.109,690,2,0.05,600,4,40,1d1*35,-0.25,0.85,0.95,-0.11965,0,0,0,0,0,0,6.02
; Starboard NS-23 23mm Cannon
gunstation.2=0,31,2,0.107,690,2,0.05,600,4,40,1d1*35,0.25,0.85,0.95,-0.11965,0,0,0,0,0,0,6.02


From...

[GUNSTATIONS]
; outer Port NS-23 23mm
gunstation.0=0,24,1,0.138,686,2,0.05,712,4,40,1d1* 81.8,-0.48,0.5,0.95,-0.11965,0,0,0,0,0,0,6.74
; Port NS-23 23mm
gunstation.1=0,24,1,0.13,696,2,0.05,712,4,40,1d1*8 1.8,-0.25,0.85,0.95,-0.11965,0,0,0,0,0,0,6.74
; Starboard NS-23 23mm
gunstation.2=0,31,1,0.134,690,2,0.05,712,4,40,1d1* 81.8,0.25,0.85,0.95,-0.11965,0,0,0,0,0,0,6.74

So everything in red is what I changed.

I speed up the RPM to...
g.0= 540rpm
g.1= 550rpm
g.2= 560rpm

that should give a good spread.

damage was reduced. round weight was reduced. I also changed the spec to cannons. thats the "2" three numbers in. I also put the range to 600m. now the down side to this is that you use more ammo per kill and faster. but less weight to help with range. its more to the true specs. though I wonder how the AI will handle it.

[UncleTgt]

Thanks John, got the tanks, will look at them tonight. Does anyone have an idea on their capacity? The only data I can find says they added 275ltrs to the 2nd prototype but that included internal tanks & the wing tip tanks.

I would leave the gun trigger as 1 rather than 2, the AI doesn't seem to recognise the "cannon" button. They'll fly into position, just won't take the shot.

I guess the other changes are largely subjective, & I will always roll with more accurate data. A couple of the russian sites quote 2 x 100kg bombs as a warload, but I've not been able to find photos that show anything other than the wing tip tanks.

However the biggest issue I think will be deciding the hit points for the 23mm. This is not easily solved, as the dp box hit points of what you're shooting at plays a part here, & without some hard & fast rules to calculate everything out with, every aircraft seems to be a little different.

I chose a figure in an old gun data zip file I downloaded some years ago. But it does feel right that it should hit harder than the Hispano 20mm & Mauser 20mm, & even the Jap Type 99 20mm is often quoted in dp files at 39 hit points. Do we really think it's only 2 x better than the 50 cal (often quoted at 17-18pts)?

[Wayland]

On the gun issue, have you checked on Tony Williams site? He seems to have some very accurate data and a couple of formulas for calculating various efficency factors. It's at http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/. He also has a forum at Delphi, it is here: http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=autogun&nav=messages&prettyurl=%2F autogun%2Fmessages%2F&gid=2005183900 . He collaborated with Dr. Emmanuele Gustin on the "Flying Gun" series of technical books on aircraft gun armament. Her website is here: http://users.telenet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/ .

I'll install the whole works this morning sometime and wring it out over the rest of the day. I didn't get too far on the early jet tests due to life intervening over the weekend, but I'll be back on the test program today.

Thanks, guys, you have all been "above and beyond" on this.

Steve

[Blood_Hawk23]

check this site...

http://www.russianammo.org/Russian_A...ge_25mm.html#8

might give you an Idea.

also this is the arms dat

Nudelman-Suranov NS-23 23mm Cannon (1945),1,-99,2,0.11,690,2,0.05,400,4,40,1d1*38,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,7.05,Soviet Union
Nudelman-Suranov NS-23 23mm Cannon (1945),1,-99,2,0.1,690,2,0.05,400,4,40,1d1*32,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,6.6,Soviet Union
SchWAK 20mm Cannon (1937),1,-99,2,0.08,830,2,0.05,500,4,99,1d1*31,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,3.39,Soviet Union
Vja 23mm Cannon (1941),1,-99,2,0.1,900,2,0.05,500,4,40,1d1*33,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,7.05,Soviet Union
AM-23 23mm Cannon (1954),1,-99,2,0.05,690,2,0.04,400,4,40,1d1*38,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,6.61,Soviet Union
B-20 20mm Cannon (1944),1,-99,2,0.08,800,2,0.05,400,4,40,1d1*28,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,3.39,Soviet Union
GP-9 23mm Cannon-zwilling (ca. 1965),1,-99,2,0.03,1000,2,0.06,500,4,40,1d1*39,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,7.05,Soviet Union
GSh-2-23 23mm Cannon (ca. 1965),1,-99,2,0.02,740,2,0.06,400,4,40,1d1*45,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,6.17,Soviet Union
GSh-23L 23mm Cannon (ca. 1965),1,-99,2,0.02,740,2,0.06,400,4,40,1d1*45,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,6.17,Soviet Union
GSh-6-23 23mm Cannon (ca. 1965),1,-99,2,0.01,740,2,0.06,400,4,40,1d1*45,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,6.17,Soviet Union
Nudelman-Richter NR-23 23mm Cannon (1949),1,-99,2,0.07,690,2,0.05,400,4,40,1d1*38,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,7.05,Soviet Union


that is everything for 20mm and 23mm. so you can see why I chose the value that I did.

on to the fuel...

Here is what I calculated. it might not be correct...

All in gallons;
Total=290.59 - LA-11's total fuel load
MainOnly=217.94 -original LA-9
Wing Tanks=72.65 - the extra added

from that this is what I came up with.

again all gallons;
Wing tank1=39.325
Wing tank2=39.325
Main1=130.764
Main2=87.176

Now I used the LA-9 as my starting point. then just did the math.

I'll send what I have.

[Wayland]

Oh, excellent. I can see why you used this source data. Williams admits he found varying data when he did his research, so no one really knows without a head-to-head, hands-on test. This looks pretty comprehensive, and accurate to me.

~40 gallons looks about right for the tip tanks, they are not very big. The -11 structure was beefed up, but they can't have done much more with the other added weight from the heavier landing gear, etc. Too much weight on the ends of the wings would also cut down the manouverablity.

Steve

[Blood_Hawk23]

UT,

What are the FF gun setting on the migs?

[Blood_Hawk23]

nevermind I found them.

Thats the FF Mig-15;
; Upper Nudelman-Suranov NS-23mm Cannon
gunstation.0=0,24,2,0.1,690,2,0.05,400,4,50,1d1*36 ,-0.447,-0.41499999,3.73000007,-0.161823,0,0.0511202,0,0,0,0,6.61000013
; Lower Nudelman-Suranov NS-23mm Cannon
gunstation.1=0,31,2,0.1,690,2,0.05,400,4,50,1d1*36 ,-0.7000001,-0.623,3.99999996,-0.174174,0,0.0411706,0,0,0,0,6.61000013

oh the trigger on mine is still at 0. so they are still set to the gun and not the cannon trigger.

I just went through most of the mig-15s that I have. Nole has his as 52 for the 23mm. Thats the highest I've seen. Other wise 38 seems to be the norm. 45 would be the half way. i guess it will require testing. personally i'd rather be shot at by 38 then 52. but i'd rather have 52 for my guns.

let me know what you think.

[Blood_Hawk23]

UT,

I'm having trouble sending you some files. It keeps kicking back to me.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Hey UT,

Ok I've sent it again. sorry but I sent it too both. Just delete the extra.

I seem to have forgotten to move the location of the tanks in the air and cfg. os the actual balance might be off.

I think all that is left is a good panel and maybe some VC tweeks. I know the basics but in no way do I want to attempt this.

[Wayland]

Been doing test flights agains a variety of early jets. The current Beta version stacks up suprisingly well at surviving. I threw a bunch of late WWII piston fighters, early jets and other stuff into the test install and started running QC against random opponents. I selected things so that I flew aginst both eastern block and western. I actually shot down MiG-15's on two seperate flights. It wasn't easy, but I survived most fights with jets. Only got waxed 6 times out of 20 flights, survived in 14. Total kills for me, 9, including the 2 MiGs. Didn't do too much in FF, this was a combat capabilities test. So far, so good.

Steve

[kelticheart]

Ahem....forgive me for nosing in.....

is this LA-11 beauty going to be uploaded sometimes in the future?

Cheers!
KH

[Wayland]

Hi, KH

I just came up with the idea, the others are doing the real work. I think its a good idea, after all it was a significant aircraft of the time period, even if not used widely outside the Soviet Union. I've only been able to find it in Soviet, Chinese, NKPAF and Romania. I've seen one reference to it in Bulgarian service, but haven't found any supporting documentation. The early Cold War is one of my favorite periods, but not a lot of aircraft available for it, at least not that I have been able to find.

Steve

[Blood_Hawk23]

Well the models are converted. The Tanks are made. UT is doing some final work on the panel. I think Pepe is helping with that bit. Once everything is back together I think we can release it.

Pepe thinks its still a bit to much. So the air and CFG need to be looked into a little more. Do we want this one set for AI use? Might be too frame rate heavy.

[Wayland]

I'v only noticed it when I'm up against an opponent that's a frame rate-heavy aircraft. For example, with 4-8 KM PB4Y-2s. It dogs a bit, but that's also a given with my 15 year old antique steam-powered computer, too. I'll try it on my 3-year old laptop and see what happens.

Steve

[UncleTgt]

Pepe's done a pretty good airfile & panel, so I've been spending time on the textures.
I ended up pretty much redrawing the textures for the Russian model from scratch.
Here's some WIP shots of a "cherry red" La-11 from 911IAP, circa 1949 that I'm using to test out the redrawn bitmaps. Once I've got this worn & dirtied up, I'll start on some Korean & PLAAF skins (although aircraft from both these air forces were reportedly flown by Russian pilots...).

[UncleTgt]

All dirtied up (may be a little too much )

[Wayland]

Hi All

Finally got CFS2 installed on the laptop and sorry to report it is even more frame rate sensitive than my desktop machine. I notice a distinct impact on nearly half the aircraft I installed. I suspect that it's mainly due to the fact the laptop is a general purpose, entry level machine that is mainly used for word-processing and traveling to and from the local wi-fi hotspot for updates, etc. No seperate video card, basic everthing. I'll continue to tinker with it and see what can be done.

UT, that skin is gorgeous! I've always liked the artic visibility schemes, and that one looks particularly good.

Back to flight testing.

Steve