Is the Ground Crew He-111 model shineable?

[hewman100]

Great job Brian. Only glitch I can see is that the model you're using hasn't got the X-Gerat aerials on the fuselage removed.
I can't remember without looking but were they alpha'd out in some way, or was there two separate models?

[RobH]

Good catch! Thanks. I forgot to include the proper alpha channel for that texture sheet. Oops!

[RobH]

I think the model needs a little shine and was wondering if anyone here had added shine to theirs? Also, since I am on Windows 7, I was curious if anyone was successful before I start creating a virtual machine just so I can run the utility mk_mdl_v2. It's been a long time since I played around with the He-111 and I keep thinking that this model wouldn't let you add shine to it, but I could be wrong.

Thanks

[Sarg Willy]

Now that,s a good question , I think it was the tail end of Fds-vr1 , so probably not shineable , the modelers could probably check the source file , to see if Fds-vr-2 , was used to confirm that ,

[RobH]

Now that,s a good question , I think it was the tail end of Fds-vr1 , so probably not shineable , the modelers could probably check the source file , to see if Fds-vr-2 , was used to confirm that ,

Thanks Sarg. I checked the read me and it says it was built in Gmax. Does that help?

[Sarg Willy]

Gmax , sure does ,Shine away

[RobH]

Gmax , sure does ,Shine away

Thanks! I will give it a shot tomorrow morning, when I'm not so tired.

[kelticheart]

Thanks! I will give it a shot tomorrow morning, when I'm not so tired.

Hi Brian,

you can shine it with Morton/Hsu's mkMDL utility. I set mine 02-04 resulting in a soft satin finish, the only shine that a camo flat paint would give under direct sunlight.
With natural metal aircrafts, or late war US Navy night blue glossy finish, I increase the shine factor to 05.

Cheers!
KH

[RobH]

Thanks Kelti! That's exactly what I am wanting to do.

[RobH]

Well apparently I cannot create a virtual XP machine on mine without having a XP operating system disc.

Anyone got a suggestion on how to create a virtual XP machine on Windows 7 home premium? I have tried both Vm player and Virtual Box.

[ElsnerMarkus]

I Have installed the HE with V 1 but the V 1 works with a normal Bomb, not raket attack?

[Cody Coyote]

Did you try using Windows XP Mode? XP Mode is free and is designed to run on Windows 7. You don't need an XP disk.

I used it on my first Win 7 machine. It worked perfectly and allowed me to run any of my older programs (like CFS2) in XP. Eventually I realized Win 7 was everything XP was and more so I didn't bother to install it on my next PC. If you have an old program that ran great on XP but not on Win 7 then XP Mode is the way to go. You do need to be running Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, or Ultimateto install it.

Here's a link to the Windows site explaining it and leading to the download page: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/w...e-in-windows-7

[Desert Rat]

....or you could download MDLmat from Martin Wrights site (click program list on left) and manually add shine to each material individually, not as straight forward but one benefit is you can add extra shine to the transparent materials to make your glass a bit shinier.

Jamie.

[michaelvader]

Hallo,

of course for the "beauty" it would be nice to have the aircraft have siny surfaces. BUT, the camouflage paint was mat just to avoid also shiny effects!
Today you might see warbirds with shiny camouflage paint and factory fresh.
Sorry but this goes totaly against the reality in wartime use.
Later especially US airforce planes did come over the war theatre with out camouflage and also natural aluminium or othe fresh paints. Those might have gloss or shine. Also please think to this that the german paint especially at the end of the war was of poor quality and just aplied as less than possible.
To help you please try to search over the net old wartime photos and you will see - no shine.

Happy landings
yours
Michael "Papi" Vader

[Shessi]

Hi Michael,
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

Most, if not all ac paint had a sealer either mixed in with it or was applied afterwards over the top. Yes, after use it did matt down but it always still had some residual sheen (subtle sheen or subtilen glanz) on it. As shown with late war german paint quality, which reduced greatly, and even became water based at the end, even then the metal underneath would add a sheen through to the surface paint.

The Brits thought that true matt black on night fighters would be harder to see at night. This was proved to be incorrect, and it also took some 20mph (32Kph) off the top speed, so they reverted back to standard paint types. This is why truely matt paint was never used by any airforce (the shine also protects the paint, so lasts longer).

Yes, wear on paint may matt it down, but oil, petrol, hydraulic and brake fluids on paint and then being wipped off would shine the surface. If you look at an old car that has not been re-painted and has gone matt, in bright light or sunshine, it still has a sheen to it, in german, 'subtilen glanz'.

It is one of my great frustrations that people either produce or convert an ac and believe they are doing it justice by making it matt or forgetting to add a touch of shine, it is not realistic at all. In the model world it would be described as not being 'scale' ie not realistic.

These two pics are of the WoP Fw190D9 in CFS2. The first pic is of a matt painted aircraft, the second is of a lightly shined ac. Personally I think that the subtle areas of highlighted shine or sheen, bring the ac to life and make it look more realistic in the sim. Also here are a load of photos showing shine and sheen on german, japanese and british ac. I agree, bright shiney WWII ac are very rare, but lightly shined with a subtle sheen is a must.

Cheers Shessi


P.S Brian, and yes the GC He11 does shine up well...

[RobH]

Did you try using Windows XP Mode? XP Mode is free and is designed to run on Windows 7. You don't need an XP disk.

I used it on my first Win 7 machine. It worked perfectly and allowed me to run any of my older programs (like CFS2) in XP. Eventually I realized Win 7 was everything XP was and more so I didn't bother to install it on my next PC. If you have an old program that ran great on XP but not on Win 7 then XP Mode is the way to go. You do need to be running Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, or Ultimateto install it.

Here's a link to the Windows site explaining it and leading to the download page: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/w...e-in-windows-7

Thanks Cody. I have Windows 7 Home, so it will not run in XP mode. Years ago, I made a virtual Xp machine on mine, but something in the rules must have changed I guess. When I did it the first time, I did not have to have a XP disk to install, now I do.

[RobH]

....or you could download MDLmat from Martin Wrights site (click program list on left) and manually add shine to each material individually, not as straight forward but one benefit is you can add extra shine to the transparent materials to make your glass a bit shinier.

Jamie.

Thanks Jamie. I tried that too, but not exactly sure what I am doing with the program yet. I have used it before successfully in FSX, but picking what you want to change in CFS2 is different and harder. (for me).

[RobH]

Hallo,

of course for the "beauty" it would be nice to have the aircraft have siny surfaces. BUT, the camouflage paint was mat just to avoid also shiny effects!
Today you might see warbirds with shiny camouflage paint and factory fresh.
Sorry but this goes totaly against the reality in wartime use.
Later especially US airforce planes did come over the war theatre with out camouflage and also natural aluminium or othe fresh paints. Those might have gloss or shine. Also please think to this that the german paint especially at the end of the war was of poor quality and just aplied as less than possible.
To help you please try to search over the net old wartime photos and you will see - no shine.

Happy landings
yours
Michael "Papi" Vader

Thanks Michael. Shessi explained it perfectly. My intention is to add a 'sheen' to the aircraft. In some angles, light will still reflect off flat paint. You are right, they were not necessarily shiny. I only used the word shine, since that is what the setting is called in the MK-MDLC program.

I think aircraft in CFS2 look unreal without some light reflecting off the paint. Even in the reflection is very subtle.

[RobH]

Hi Michael,
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

Most, if not all ac paint had a sealer either mixed in with it or was applied afterwards over the top. Yes, after use it did matt down but it always still had some residual sheen (subtle sheen or subtilen glanz) on it. As shown with late war german paint quality, which reduced greatly, and even became water based at the end, even then the metal underneath would add a sheen through to the surface paint.

The Brits thought that true matt black on night fighters would be harder to see at night. This was proved to be incorrect, and it also took some 20mph (32Kph) off the top speed, so they reverted back to standard paint types. This is why truely matt paint was never used by any airforce (the shine also protects the paint, so lasts longer).

Yes, wear on paint may matt it down, but oil, petrol, hydraulic and brake fluids on paint and then being wipped off would shine the surface. If you look at an old car that has not been re-painted and has gone matt, in bright light or sunshine, it still has a sheen to it, in german, 'subtilen glanz'.

It is one of my great frustrations that people either produce or convert an ac and believe they are doing it justice by making it matt or forgetting to add a touch of shine, it is not realistic at all. In the model world it would be described as not being 'scale' ie not realistic.

These two pics are of the WoP Fw190D9 in CFS2. The first pic is of a matt painted aircraft, the second is of a lightly shined ac. Personally I think that the subtle areas of highlighted shine or sheen, bring the ac to life and make it look more realistic in the sim. Also here are a load of photos showing shine and sheen on german, japanese and british ac. I agree, bright shiney WWII ac are very rare, but lightly shined with a subtle sheen is a must.

Cheers Shessi


P.S Brian, and yes the GC He11 does shine up well...

Thanks Shessi. Thanks for the explanation and pictures! Even with flat paint, light still has to reflect off the surface causing a very subtle, shine or sheen, just like your photos are showing.

The picture of the Ground Crew He-111 is exactly what I am wanting

[Allen]

Well apparently I cannot create a virtual XP machine on mine without having a XP operating system disc.

Anyone got a suggestion on how to create a virtual XP machine on Windows 7 home premium? I have tried both Vm player and Virtual Box.

Have you tried DOSBox? Mdlc.exe is DOS program. The mk_mdlc.exe is nothing but a nice interface. You should be able to use Mdlc.exe in basic cammand line with DOSBox.

[RobH]

Have you tried DOSBox? Mdlc.exe is DOS program. The mk_mdlc.exe is nothing but a nice interface. You should be able to use Mdlc.exe in basic cammand line with DOSBox.

Thanks Allen. I looked at it yesterday, but wasn't sure what is was. I will take a look at it some more.

[Allen]

I haven't used DOSBox my self (still using XP) but has been recommended to use for similar 16 bit DOS intefrace programs that I use for Command & Conquer.

[michaelvader]

Hallo Shessy,
as you explained in your answer to my reply you are relly very right (oups a bit wrankle my english).
I meant the general paint and did not go into detail as you do.
I would be glad if I could do so detailed paint - also on my panels to add a touch of "use".
I remember suddenly a little story from my father who flew on Ju 87 till the end at the Kurland siege.
He told me that they tried to "polish" their StuKa's to gain a little bit speed on their old birds. And he so told me also that we hoped that it would brings us a little but knowing that our engines were tired.
So OK Shessi, and thank you for your detailed explanation.
Happy Landings
Yours Papi

[Shessi]

Hi Papi,
Please, your english is superb, I wish my german was as good!

No problem at all, sorry but I think I was using your statement to make a point (one that's been festering inside for years..), as I have never understood people who do not see or miss this effect, and it makes such a big difference, especially in CFS2.

Your father was certainly a brave crew member, tired Ju87's at that late stage of the war...gulp! , he is a lucky man to have survived.

Prost!

Shessi

[kelticheart]

Hi Michael,
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

Most, if not all ac paint had a sealer either mixed in with it or was applied afterwards over the top. Yes, after use it did matt down but it always still had some residual sheen (subtle sheen or subtilen glanz) on it. As shown with late war german paint quality, which reduced greatly, and even became water based at the end, even then the metal underneath would add a sheen through to the surface paint.

The Brits thought that true matt black on night fighters would be harder to see at night. This was proved to be incorrect, and it also took some 20mph (32Kph) off the top speed, so they reverted back to standard paint types. This is why truely matt paint was never used by any airforce (the shine also protects the paint, so lasts longer).

Yes, wear on paint may matt it down, but oil, petrol, hydraulic and brake fluids on paint and then being wipped off would shine the surface. If you look at an old car that has not been re-painted and has gone matt, in bright light or sunshine, it still has a sheen to it, in german, 'subtilen glanz'.

It is one of my great frustrations that people either produce or convert an ac and believe they are doing it justice by making it matt or forgetting to add a touch of shine, it is not realistic at all. In the model world it would be described as not being 'scale' ie not realistic.

These two pics are of the WoP Fw190D9 in CFS2. The first pic is of a matt painted aircraft, the second is of a lightly shined ac. Personally I think that the subtle areas of highlighted shine or sheen, bring the ac to life and make it look more realistic in the sim. Also here are a load of photos showing shine and sheen on german, japanese and british ac. I agree, bright shiney WWII ac are very rare, but lightly shined with a subtle sheen is a must.

Cheers Shessi


P.S Brian, and yes the GC He11 does shine up well...

Thanks for this very detailed explanation, Shessi!

I agree with you, I call it a "soft satin finish". I remember the emotion I had as a child when Humbrol matte WWII paint sets became available here.

They were expensive for child's pockets at the time, buying one meant giving up two or three airplane kits. But the models had to be painted and the first time I painted Frog's Spitfire MkIa QV-K with Humbrol RAF set enamels, I admired the results for hours afterwards. I went out and bought me the Luftwaffe set immediately, but then I had no more money to get something to paint for weeks!

It's then when I first saw that satin sheen effect on the model surfaces. I think it's best reproduced with Morton's mkMDL 02-04 settings, as I wrote above. Every camouflaged aircraft I downloaded is treated this way, while 02-05 suits natural metal and glossy paints very well.

Cheers!
KH