I could use a motley crew of helpers...
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  1. #1
    Senior Administrator Rami's Avatar
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    Question I could use a motley crew of helpers...

    Good afternoon,

    Over the years there have been a number of conversions for FS9 aircraft into multi-lod CFS2 models. These include the P-40 Tomahawk, Westland Whirlwind, Vickers Wellington, Avro Manchester, and soon I hear the Armstrong-Whitworth Whitley and Handley-Page Hampden.

    With that in mind, for the Mosquito project I have had several requests for the Phillips raid. To do this, I would really like to have a Lockheed Ventura, an aircraft used by 487 Squadron of the RNZAF.

    Luckily, there is an example of one currently being constructed by Milton Shupe. I inquired to him about this model, and received the following response...

    Originally Posted by Rami

    Milton,

    By the nature of your work, I have become increasingly interested in the progress / status of the Lockheed Harpoon / Ventura that you are developing. Because I plan to use this in CFS2, I had some questions for you about it.

    1) Is the model multi-lod?

    2) Have you, or will you produce a paint kit for it?

    3) Would you have any objection to a CFS2 conversion?

    I am asking these questions specifically because the Lockheed Ventura / Harpoon was used operationally in Europe by three RAF squadrons, and we are getting close to assembling all major models of British bombers in the ETO. (These would be the Whitley, Hampden, Wellington, Ventura, Halifax, Hudson, Mosquito, Mitchell, Boston, and Lancasters)

    This model would be an excellent leap forward in that regard.

    Thanks in advance,

    His response...

    Rami,

    Thank you for the interest.

    1) Not multi-LOD.

    2) There will be a paint kit.

    3) I always provide for a CFS2 or 3 conversion by gmax source or an FS2002 or FS2004 exported model.

    It will be at least 2 months before I get back to the Vega Ventura.

    The external model is complete.

    The internal VC model basics are in place.

    No mapping has been done.

    I would be willing to provide the gmax source at this point if you want it if you have someone who would like to tailor it for CFS2, do the LODs and map it.

    Otherwise it will likely be November/December before it is ready.

    I understand the importance of LOD's for your project so the gmax source to a knowledgeable CFS2/Gmax person may be the best option.

    Optionally, I could map the exterior for you for the AI type aircraft and get that done in a couple weeks.

    I am open to variants of the above suggestions and would do what I can to help.

    Let me know your thoughts.

    Milton

    Now...is there anyone who has the Gmax skills to be able to work on this and would be willing to help? Sounds are available for it, but well need panel tweakers, VC helpers, a working .dp file, the whole deal.

    Please let me know, and PM myself and Milton with ideas, suggestions, or offers to help!
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

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  2. #2
    What's the Ventura we've already got like? Well it was a repaint of the Alpha PV-2 IIRC

    Could that be cannibalised for .dp and .air files to save building them from scratch?

    I've just checked and it doesn't appear to be there
    Attached Files Attached Files

  3. #3
    Senior Administrator Rami's Avatar
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    Icon22 Reply...

    Hewman100,

    The Lockheed Ventura from Alphasim pales in comparison. Gavinc started on a conversion for the AI model already, but once Milton finishes the model for the player version, we will be ready to go.

    http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...id=52&id=16264

    Hopefully if someone can start painting this model, the conversion to the player version should be minimal. I will check the .air and .dp files.
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

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    Senior Administrator Rami's Avatar
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    Icon22 Reply...

    Hewman,

    A picture is worth a thousand words.
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

    My campaign site: http://www.box.net/shared/0k1e1rz29h
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  5. #5
    Redding Army Airfield Allen's Avatar
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    Trying to LOD a complex model is a pain. The best thing to do is go Q&D and make somthing that kind of looks like the aircraft and the texture is okayly applyed.
    "Let Being Helpful Be More Important Than Being Right!" Some SOH Founder.

  6. #6
    Senior Administrator Rami's Avatar
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    Icon22 Reply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen View Post
    Trying to LOD a complex model is a pain. The best thing to do is go Q&D and make somthing that kind of looks like the aircraft and the texture is okayly applyed.
    Allen,

    Agreed, but it certainly can be accomplished. The Manchester, Wellington, and others are proof of this.
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

    My campaign site: http://www.box.net/shared/0k1e1rz29h
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  7. #7
    I didn't notice any mention of breaking parts. Will it have them?

    It will need a new DP. I hate reused DP files. They never match the model correctly.

    A new Air and CFG would be nice but a modified Airfile would be best. The CFG can be built off of the modified airfile easy enough.

    LODs are needed the most. Its just who ever does it might as well be building the whole model. Like Allen said, "Trying to LOD a complex model is a pain." Unless Milton is willing to do the animation work after the LODs are made.

    Just my thoughts.
    "Courage is the discovery that you may not win, and trying when you know you can lose."-Tom Krause

    My works Here: http://www.thefreeflightsite.com/JFortin.htm

  8. #8
    Senior Administrator Rami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood_Hawk23 View Post
    I didn't notice any mention of breaking parts. Will it have them?

    It will need a new DP. I hate reused DP files. They never match the model correctly.

    A new Air and CFG would be nice but a modified Airfile would be best. The CFG can be built off of the modified airfile easy enough.

    LODs are needed the most. Its just who ever does it might as well be building the whole model. Like Allen said, "Trying to LOD a complex model is a pain." Unless Milton is willing to do the animation work after the LODs are made.

    Just my thoughts.
    Blood_Hawk23,

    I modified the .air and .cfg files myself last night for CFS2, building on the work of Gavin Cole. I would love someone to check me over. (I'll post it when I get home from work) Since the final model is being built in Gmax with a VC, I know that some people are reasonably adept at creating multi-lod models in this situation, like what Oldwheat, Shessi, and JD Tinballs have done.

    Because the final model is still in development, those who are interested in doing the modelling work may want to contact him via PM and offer their help.

    Your .dp suggestion is a worthwhile one.

    For the Phillips mission, I will use the Hudson as a substitute until this model is finished.
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

    My campaign site: http://www.box.net/shared/0k1e1rz29h
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  9. #9
    The PV-1 Ventura model is about completed with only some VC work remaining.

    The models have been mapped for textures inside and outside.

    The cfg and air files are mostly complete.

    Gauge work is basic and of course will have to be replaced for CFS2.

    We are currently using Harpoon sounds but that may change.

    I am curious if you can read the cfg and air files into the Airwrench or FDWB tools and then output files for CFS2. This seems to be an option available.

    The interior for the flyable model can be complex or simple. My intent is to provide full radio, navigation, and radar areas. These can be easily removed of course for CFS2 if the model is too "heavy".

    The exterior model contains quite a bit of detail in parts but is not poly foolish. Many/most of these parts can be eliminated on LOD models.

    If someone wishes to take on the gmax modeling for LODs and breakable parts, I will be happy to provide the source.

    EDIT: to clarify, the interior shot is of the Harpoon cockpit but the radio, nav, and radar areas are the same for the PV-1. It has a different panel setup and only a single pilot figure.
    Last edited by Milton Shupe; October 2nd, 2014 at 15:45. Reason: clarification
    Milton Shupe
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  10. #10
    Senior Administrator Rami's Avatar
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    Hey guys,

    Here is the modified .cfg file for the AI Harpoon. I essentially eliminated all the FS9 elements in the .cfg file which are duplicated in the .air file. Milton's engine and performance data is pretty much on the mark, so not much modification needed to be done there.
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

    My campaign site: http://www.box.net/shared/0k1e1rz29h
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  11. #11
    A solid nose PV-1 and PV-2 Harpoon, very nice indeed. The former could be used for some GR.Vs and with a painted on glazed nose others for AI work.
    Can only be used as a placeholder player aircraft for Eindhoven.

    Glazed nose PV-1 with Martin dorsal turret is equivalent to Ventura IIA.
    Ventura I and Ventura II were only distinguished by engines, MkI had the commercial R-2800-S1A4G and the MkII the R-2800-31.
    Both were fitted with the Boulton Paul Type C MkII 2-gun dorsal turret, although I have definitely seen film footage of some with Boulton Paul Type A MkVIII 4-gun turret.

  12. #12
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    Here are the Venturas of RAF 21, RAAF 464 and RNZAF 487 Squadrons which took part in Operation Oyster. All are painted in the standard dark green, dark earth and duck egg blue camouflage scheme.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ventura I RAF 21 Sqn Feltwell 1942 #1jpg.jpg   Ventura I RAF 21 Sqn Feltwell 1942 #2.jpg   Ventura I RNZAF 487 Sqn Feltwell 1943.jpg   Ventura II RAAF 464 Sqn Feltwell 1942.jpg  

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by kdriver View Post
    Here are the Venturas of RAF 21, RAAF 464 and RNZAF 487 Squadrons which took part in Operation Oyster. All are painted in the standard dark green, dark earth and duck egg blue camouflage scheme.


    ..............like this one ?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Vent.jpg  

  14. #14
    And there he goes jogging the old memory. It's even got the modified dp to add the nose guns and extra two in the dorsal turret which was the 'quick fix' after I posted some screen captures from the film footage.

    IIRC you did the aircraft Len Trent won his VC in as part of the pack too?

  15. #15
    Rami,

    How is it doing with the MOIs up that high, Any issues?

    I ran it through Airwrench and FSEdit and both suggested MOIs for the player to be higher for Pitch and Yaw. 70000-85000 Pitch and 115000-125000 Yaw. If its handeling fine I'd leave it. The both tend to suggest higher MOIs.

    If it starts to nose dive you can lower the AIRfile Pitch MOIs by 15k. Though too low could make it harder for them to drop Alt.

    Other then that it looks good at a glance. I'd have to fly it to see if there was anything else.
    "Courage is the discovery that you may not win, and trying when you know you can lose."-Tom Krause

    My works Here: http://www.thefreeflightsite.com/JFortin.htm

  16. #16
    Senior Administrator Rami's Avatar
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    John,

    I haven't tested it in missions, waiting for a multi-lod model. Right now, I was just concentrating on eliminating the excess stuff from the .cfg file. Have you had issues with it?
    "Rami"

    "Me? I'm just a Sea of Tranquility in an Ocean of Storms, babe."

    My campaign site: http://www.box.net/shared/0k1e1rz29h
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