Shupe Beech D18S Manual Start Not Working (FSX)

[Badger85]

Hi!

I've recently installed Milton Shupe's excellent Beech D18S aircraft port-over for FSX. I really like the plane, but unfortunately I can't get the engines to manually start. I've followed the procedure to a tee. I select the right engine, get the fuel pump running, select all batteries to ON, prime, hit the starter switch, wait... and nothing happens. I've waited until the battery dies. I've also noticed that if I start clicking on the Starter Selector (from LEFT to OFF and back to RIGHT again) the engine then tries to start but apparently lacks the torque to actually get started all the way. I've raised the "normalized_starter_torque" value in the Aircraft.cfg file, and then the engine starts. Obviously this latter part isn't the correct way of starting the engine, so . . . what do I need to do to get the manual start in this great bird to work?

I've tried this with both the Carroll FSX model and Shupe's own port-over to FSX and the same thing happens. Any ideas? I've tried resetting my fsx.cfg file and can't imagine any other addons that I have (PMDG 737NGX, feelThere ERJ 145, and a few other aircraft addons plus Solomons freeware scenery) would interfere with this operation. Your help would be greatly appreciated!

[Portia911]

2-3 clicks of primer? (Turns left or right depending on the engine you want to start)
and maybe try with the throttle 'cracked' (ie. ~12% open)?

[Badger85]

Yup, I've been doing all those things. Still no go.

[Portia911]

Hey Alex,
Just reloaded D18Sfsxport and tried some cold and dark starts. There is something not quite right with the start procedure, but as you already found, it seems the left/off/right selector is the key (no pun intended) to making things happen.
As the magnetos and master ignition switch are already at 'both' and 'on' respectively, there's nothing to do there. It seems the fuel boost is not actually required.
So full rich, throttle cracked and both battery switches on. Then primer (not sure if this is essential), starter (and the red button appears to stay down), then click the starter selector switch.
It doesn't seem to matter which position this selector switch is in to start with, it's the sequence of switching this (once) and then clicking on 'ignition boost', 'starter' (even tho the red button may appear to stay down) and 'primer' - then repeat until one or other of the engines start! Not very scientific, but it works!

When I was using this plane earlier this year, I installed a few different varieties (all based on Milton's original), and found the Expeditor packs by Vladimir Gonchar - which come with a completely different VC layout - have better switch animations and start as per the checklist. If you have no luck starting with the version you currently have, it might be worth trying. Available at simviation and flightsim.

Good luck!

[modelr]

Badger85, wondering if we have a wording problem here understanding your problem. As I read your first post, I get the impression your engines are not CRANKING. (The first requirement for starting.) I guess this because you mention increasing the starter torque in the cfg. which then allows the engines to start. I ask this because there are three stages of start/run.
1: CRANK. Does the engine turn over fast enough and long enough to fire?
2: Fire/ignition: Does the fuel get ignited to make the engine run?
3: Run steadily: Once ignition occurs, does the engine continue to run smoothly?

As each stage is controlled/operated by different systems, it helps immensely to know what is occurring, and what isn't.

The answers from Portia911 seem to be answering the second step, ie ignition, while you seem to be speaking of cranking. Am I on the right track? If so, sometimes, on individual setups, increasing starter torque is a requirement. I have a couple where that was the only fix that would work when it would seem to crank only one or two blades, very slowly, if at all. That is, after checking battery voltage. If you don't have FSUIPC, and you spend to long getting other things done, the battery unrealistically goes low/dead much to quickly in FS. This will cause a no crank situation also. The only way to fix when it does happen is to restart FSX. Just reloading the aircraft doesn't help.

Just a suggestion.

[Badger85]

Thank you for your replies!

For me, the problem is twofold:

1. Cranking: The engine won't even start to crank (or even make any kind of noise) when I follow the correct procedure.

3. Fire/Ignition: When I start to play around with the Starter Selector switch and moving it through various positions (i.e. departing from correct procedure) one of the engines will (seemingly randomly) start to crank but will never have enough torque to fire. Hence my experimenting with the torque setting.

I've tried the procedure Portia911 mentioned above and I'm still getting the same results. Any other ideas?

[modelr]

I would say to go ahead and experiment with the starter torque figures, a little at a time, until you get a good cranking action allowing the engine to fire and run. Since most everyone else's (who have answered,) is working correctly, it may be something peculiar to your system/setup. As long as the procedures work properly once the required amount of starter torque is found, then you should be good to go. On a real 1:1 vehicle/aircraft, this can be the equivalent of simply cleaning the ground wire attachment at the battery, which effectively increases the starter torque.

[Badger85]

modelr, thanks for the tip and the real-world equivalent. It helps to justify such a customization

[Portia911]

As previously suggested, try a different version. Search 'Shupe Beech' at simviation or flightsim.com and you'll see other 'fsx' options. The Expeditor works well for me, but due to their common parentage, the skins are usually transferable between versions and models (ie swapping a skin from a wheeled model to a float model) - so you could do this and still have the original C45 paint if you wanted.
Guess you could also try re-downloading the one you have in case there was a glitch with your initial download and/or install (?)
Hope you get it sorted, Alex.

[Milton Shupe]

I tried it here on FSX/SP2 and get the same results.

Here is the starter code as located in the ST_D18.cab. I cannot see an issue with this but I am an XML novice.
If anyone sees an issue, I will change it and test it, or feel free to do that yourself.

<gauge name="Starter" version="1.0">

- <Gauge Name="Starter" Version="1.0">
- <Element>
- <Select>
<Value>(G:Var1) if{ (L:Start Selector, enum) 1 == if{ (A:Circuit general panel on, bool) (A:GENERAL ENG2 RPM,RPM) 500 < && if{ 0 (>K:TOGGLE_STARTER2) } els{ (G:Var1) -- (>G:Var1) } } (G:Var1) 0 != (A:General eng2 starter, bool) || } if{ (L:Start Selector, enum) 2 == if{ (A:Circuit general panel on, bool) (A:GENERAL ENG1 RPM,RPM) 500 < && if{ 0 (>K:TOGGLE_STARTER1) } els{ (G:Var1) -- (>G:Var1) } } (G:Var1) 0 != (A:General eng1 starter, bool) || }</Value>
- <Case Value="0">
<Image Name="Start_Off.bmp" />
</Case>
- <Case Value="1">
<Image Name="Start_On.bmp" />
</Case>
</Select>
</Element>
- <Mouse>
<Help ID="HELPID_GAUGE_STARTER_SWITCH" />
<Cursor Type="Hand" />
<Click>(L:Start Master, bool) if{ 3 (>G:Var1) }</Click>
</Mouse>
</Gauge>

</gauge>

[Milton Shupe]

I tried it here on FSX/SP2 and get the same results.

Attached here is the starter code as located in the ST_D18.cab. I cannot see an issue with this but I am an XML novice.
If anyone sees an issue, I will change it and test it, or feel free to do that yourself.

[Bjoern]

The code looks a bit complicated.

Is each starter supposed to engage when the button is pressed and there's electrical power and the engine RPM is below 500? And there's a starter selector that switches between engine 1 and 2?

[Milton Shupe]

The code looks a bit complicated.

Is each starter supposed to engage when the button is pressed and there's electrical power and the engine RPM is below 500? And there's a starter selector that switches between engine 1 and 2?

Yes, it's called HW_start_selector and resides in the ST_D18.cab file.

EDIT: My version here in FSX did not have the cab file in the panel folder. I copied it from the FSX/Gauges folder to the panel folder.
Afterwards, although a little clunky, I got a start every time but only after returning the left right switch to neutral.

I will continue to look at this to find a better alternative xml code.

[Badger85]

Thank you, Milton!! I look forward to trying it out.