Uboat Opinion Needed

[_486_Col_Wolf]

Gentlemen,

Out of sheer boredom and a touch of madness I have created a "flyable" Type VII Uboat with torpedoes and an 88mm "forward facing only" deck gun using various uploads from here at SOH. I plan on creating a seperate CFS2 install called Uboat Commander in which the missions will have you hunting convoys in the Atlantic while being shelled by escorts and chased by sub hunter planes.

Is there any interest in such a project here?

Also before I go too far with this I would like to ask the permission of:

VN for use of the Gato submarine files
Shessi for use of the U441 files
CG's Shipyard for use of the merchant0141, 0241 and 0341 files

If this is not the correct way to ask for permission to use these files someone please let me know!

[Blood_Hawk23]

Gentlemen,

Out of sheer boredom and a touch of madness I have created a "flyable" Type VII Uboat with torpedoes and an 88mm "forward facing only" deck gun using various uploads from here at SOH. I plan on creating a seperate CFS2 install called Uboat Commander in which the missions will have you hunting convoys in the Atlantic while being shelled by escorts and chased by sub hunter planes.

Is there any interest in such a project here?

Also before I go too far with this I would like to ask the permission of:

VN for use of the Gato submarine files
Shessi for use of the U441 files
CG's Shipyard for use of the merchant0141, 0241 and 0341 files

If this is not the correct way to ask for permission to use these files someone please let me know!

If you provide the links as Rami does then you don't need the perms. people simply have to follow your install instructions.

If you want perms for Collin's ships I would contact Tom Sanford (Tango_Romeo).

I'm sure Shessi wouldn't mind with his work. he might be willing to help if he has time.

If you don't have any luck with the VN ships try the Groundcrew's. Shessi could probably help with that.

That reminds me. I have a CAM ship to finish.

Till Later,
John

[Shessi]

Hi 486,
Please be my guest, use anything of mine you need.

More power to your mouse, if you need a hand then let me know.

John, myself and others have done a few bits and pieces that may be of help.


Sounds like an exciting and interesting project.

Cheers

Shessi

[_486_Col_Wolf]

Thanks guys, I'll keep you all posted on the progress. I have alot of tinkering yet to do but some of the hardest parts are over for now.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

Does anyone know how to make a torpedo last more than the standard 42 seconds? I'm using the MK10 provided with the VN-Gato. However, this torpedo gets put into the aircraft folder. It's DP file seems to be the same as standard torpedoes. I've tried doubling the fuel weight in the AIR file, adding more fuel in the AIR file with no success.

[glh]

Sounds good. I always got my butt shot down in the air wars anyway so now let's see if I can sink some ships and win the war for Der Fuhrer !!!

[Blood_Hawk23]

Does anyone know how to make a torpedo last more than the standard 42 seconds? I'm using the MK10 provided with the VN-Gato. However, this torpedo gets put into the aircraft folder. It's DP file seems to be the same as standard torpedoes. I've tried doubling the fuel weight in the AIR file, adding more fuel in the AIR file with no success.

does speed effect range?

I would run a test with the know speed setting of German torpedos. Its just a thought.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

Yes BH speed should effect range. Right now the torpedo moves at about 25-30 Kts but I have no way to change that that I am aware of. I'd like to keep the speed a constant as it is. I just need a way to make it last longer. The 42 second mark gives it 1000 Yds range. I would like to increase that to about 3500 Yds at the same speed.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

Sorry it's been so long on the update for this. I've created the install called Uboat Commander. The sub is a mishmash of TG's Type VII and others with torpedos and a forward firing 88mm deck gun. The sub runs great! I modified some convoy ships to be armed and unarmed (sinkable with torpedos and 88MM gun). I've created a few missions where you hunt convoys in the Black Gap. I also modified the GC series warships to fire on the sub by converting the flak cannons to guns. But here's the hitch... they pound the poop out of my sub, explosions, fire ect.. but the sub never sinks or dies. I've tried modifying the DP file with BOMB, BREAK even the DEATH effect but no joy. Seems a player ship, plane ect.. will not be destroyed on the water. Is there something I'm missing to make the sub destroyable?

[Blood_Hawk23]

Sorry it's been so long on the update for this. I've created the install called Uboat Commander. The sub is a mishmash of TG's Type VII and others with torpedos and a forward firing 88mm deck gun. The sub runs great! I modified some convoy ships to be armed and unarmed (sinkable with torpedos and 88MM gun). I've created a few missions where you hunt convoys in the Black Gap. I also modified the GC series warships to fire on the sub by converting the flak cannons to guns. But here's the hitch... they pound the poop out of my sub, explosions, fire ect.. but the sub never sinks or dies. I've tried modifying the DP file with BOMB, BREAK even the DEATH effect but no joy. Seems a player ship, plane ect.. will not be destroyed on the water. Is there something I'm missing to make the sub destroyable?

Send me a copy. I'll take a look.

Check PMs

[mvg3d]

Italian Submarine at Bordeaux Base during 1942.....

http://uboat.net/flotillas/bases/bordeaux.htm

[Allen]

Sorry it's been so long on the update for this. I've created the install called Uboat Commander. The sub is a mishmash of TG's Type VII and others with torpedos and a forward firing 88mm deck gun. The sub runs great! I modified some convoy ships to be armed and unarmed (sinkable with torpedos and 88MM gun). I've created a few missions where you hunt convoys in the Black Gap. I also modified the GC series warships to fire on the sub by converting the flak cannons to guns. But here's the hitch... they pound the poop out of my sub, explosions, fire ect.. but the sub never sinks or dies. I've tried modifying the DP file with BOMB, BREAK even the DEATH effect but no joy. Seems a player ship, plane ect.. will not be destroyed on the water. Is there something I'm missing to make the sub destroyable?

This may sound odd but thave you tired using Port Wing Structure or Starboard Wing Structure in the DP? Once they reach 100% damage the game may let the sub roll and sink much like aircraft do with out a wing and with a wing gone in CFS2 landing gear and the contack point that are used with the wing are no longer used.

[baldy]

Hi

Just a thought - but in the game 'Settings' / 'Realism settings' there's a box marked 'player is invincible' - if that has got a cross in it nothing will sink your sub ( I had the same problem some time ago with Capt Nemo's Nautilus ) just uncheck the box and you should explode especially if rammed.

All the best

baldy

[_486_Col_Wolf]

Allen, there are scrape points a few meters out to the side of the sub in the DP file but I'm not sure if they do the same as you're suggesting. Bloodhawk is taking a look at the DP file for me and can hopefully come up with an answer.

Baldy, this was the first thing I looked at but I always use 95% in the realism settings, choosing med model as my only "off" setting.

As for the rest of the project, the torpedo still only ranges about 1000 yards (40 seconds) but the deck gun if timed right on the up or down swing of the Uboat can hit a ship at around 2200 yds. the sub when submerged still is "seen" by the enemy ships and can be damaged as if it were surfaced but this is something I'll just have to live with. If you set the merchant and destroyer way points on "Do Not Evade" it's almost as if they don't see you. I made a seperate install of CFS2 to run this since ship DP files are different from my European install. I also changed control settings using my simpit's landing gear lever as the "canopy open/close" command for submerging and resurfacing giving me a nice handle to engage. Also since the subs only control inputs are rudder and throttle I have changed some of the stick input commands to sub functions.

The sub lacks a virtual cockpit leaving you floating in mid air with nothing but ocean under you in VC view. My building knowledge is very limited in this area so if anyone is interested in creating a VC view as if you were outside on the conning tower it would be greatly appreciated.

I believe when this project is completed it will be a really fun variation to the CFS2 world. Because CFS2 is so open ended it may lead to other areas of battle....Tank warfare anyone?

[CrisGer]

Good to hear esp if you have solved the "how to make ships fire on other ships and do dammage" problem we have struggled with for years. The cockpit view of the bridge would be a nice touch hopefully some of the hands here who are skilled artificers can land a hand with that. this potentially has a great ability .your misison..to expand CFS2 into an essential part of the WWII story. The convoy and sub battle was one of the main efforts of Germany in the naval sphere due to Hitler's total lack of understanding of surface warfare and naval strategy and doctrine. But it was terrible effective and almost lost the war for the UK. thanks for your efforts.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

CrisGer,

It's not actually firing on another ship. The Uboat you "pilot" is entered into the Aircraft folder so CFS2 thinks it's firing on an aircraft. But most armed ships have flak cannons and won't fire at a low angle. The simple fix was to make the deck guns into machine guns but keep mostly the same parameters as a flak gun and just increase the damage dice value and slightly increase the AI attack range.

[Allen]

Well using the Port Wing Structure or Starboard Wing Structure in the DP don't work. All it did was stop the engines when one reached 100% damage.

Another idea is from when I was messing with drive-able tanks. They wouldn't below up so what I did was at 99% damage add a bunch of fx_fatal_explosion_l that would toss the tank in the air and when it came down the game would think you crashed into the ground.

I used the below on my test sub (CFS2 Sub model) it's empty weight was 7055 lbs so if you sub is heavy-er you may need to add more fx_fatal_explosion_l

[EFFECTS.0]
; System = Hull
effect.0=10,LIBRARY,fx_airexpl_l,
effect.1=40,LIBRARY,fx_ship_s,
effect.2=60,LIBRARY,fx_ship_m,
effect.3=99,LIBRARY,fx_fatal_explosion_l,
effect.4=99,LIBRARY,fx_fatal_explosion_l,
effect.5=99,LIBRARY,fx_fatal_explosion_l,
effect.6=99,LIBRARY,fx_fatal_explosion_l,
effect.7=99,LIBRARY,fx_fatal_explosion_l,
effect.8=99,LIBRARY,fx_fatal_explosion_l,
effect.9=99,LIBRARY,fx_fatal_explosion_l,
effect.10=99,LIBRARY,fx_fatal_explosion_l,
effect.10=100,LIBRARY,fx_fatal_explosion_l,

[_486_Col_Wolf]

Allen,

The only weight I can find is in the AIR file under Flight Dymanics it lists the dry weight as 18370. Might be too much to lift it. There is no empty weight listed in the CFG or DP file.

[Allen]

Add more fx_fatal_explosion_l so that it gets tossed up!

[_486_Col_Wolf]

OK, again, I apologize for the long time between updates. I've managed to get the warships to sink (blow up) the sub with deck gun fire. The armed merchant vessels will also do enough damage so that after the health of the sub goes below 75% the mission will tell you that you've received too much damage to continue and ends after a message telling you to return to port. I think I can live with these scenarios.

Now on to the next issue LOL. Since the sub is in the aircraft folder, torpedo planes and bombers armed with depth charges won't attack it with those weapons. Coincidentaly they won't attack sea planes on the water in this manner either. Does anyone know how to trick the bombers into attacking sea planes on the water? If there is a way to do it, it might allow me to get the bombers to hit the Uboat.

[Blood_Hawk23]

OK, again, I apologize for the long time between updates. I've managed to get the warships to sink (blow up) the sub with deck gun fire. The armed merchant vessels will also do enough damage so that after the health of the sub goes below 75% the mission will tell you that you've received too much damage to continue and ends after a message telling you to return to port. I think I can live with these scenarios.

Now on to the next issue LOL. Since the sub is in the aircraft folder, torpedo planes and bombers armed with depth charges won't attack it with those weapons. Coincidentaly they won't attack sea planes on the water in this manner either. Does anyone know how to trick the bombers into attacking sea planes on the water? If there is a way to do it, it might allow me to get the bombers to hit the Uboat.

Make the Sea plane a ship. We may have to do some model work to get it to work right. if they aren't moving then use the invisible tender as the target. Just a thought.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

BH, the sea planes are not the problem. I just thought that since they were also in the aircraft folder and if there was a way to get planes to attack them on the water with bombs or torpedos I could apply any such method to the Uboats and have bombers attack them with those weapons also. Since the Uboat is the "player aircraft" in the missions, I need a way to get the bombers to attack it with anti-ship weapons.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Yea they won't do that. now you can have them attack targets placed in the water and use event triggers. but that would be complex and most people won't just sit and wait for an event to happen. The best you will get is straifing attacks. Even then that might not happen.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

The bombers do strafe the Uboat. Unfortunatly, they just will not use bombs/depth charges/torpedos against it. Here's a list of what I have tried:

Entering the Uboat folder into ships to trick CFS into thinking it's a ship

Mounting invisible targets such as ships or static objects to the uboat hoping boombers would target the on board target

Changing catagory and class Misc Data in the Uboat DP to reflect it as a ship/sub

All of these have resulted in no attack with ground/water weapons by bombers.

My next thought might be to change the DP file of the bombers so that the gun they strafe with acts as a bomb or depth charge. Maybe only 3-5 rounds firing super slow with super high damage dice numbers. At least that may simulate a low level attack that was common by bombers on Uboats. Might also have to make it a gun position firing down from the bomb bay.

[_486_Col_Wolf]

I think the problem is solved!! I created a slow muzzle velocity cannon for the Whitley V. It fires down and back with limited movement. Then plane is forced to fly directly over you, fire then move on. Since it fires slow, the cannon rounds only hit you once the plane has passed creating the illusion of a bomb/depth charge run. The large damage dice number makes the hits react like bombs or depth charges, blowing the Uboat out of the water with a direct hit. Severe damage is done with a slight hit. Unfortunately there is no way to simulate a bomb splash if they miss. After the 10 cannon rounds are away the plane continues to strafe you with guns also. So we now have a player flyable Uboat that can be attacked by these modified bombers!

I am continuing my mission building of the Uboat campaign and and finishing up the "Happy Time" section. Next will come the miserable time for the Uboats with escorts joining the convoys followed by a "Second Happy Time" hunting ships off the US mid Atlantic coast. Then the final phase, long range aircraft to hunt you in what was once the Black Gap.