Sitting duck on water :)

[Navtech]

I have this aircraft:
Canadair CL 415 for FS2004 December 2013
FSDS model, panel design and Master Textures By Max Taccoli
FD Dennis Seeley
Copyright 2013 - www.Maxtac.it design
Problem:
I can land on water
I can't take off on water (sitting duck )
Question:
Why ?

Contact points: (originals no modified)

[contact_points]
static_pitch = 0.40
static_cg_height = 15.07
tailwheel_lock = 0
gear_system_type = 0
max_number_of_points = 12

point.0 = 1.000, 20.863, 0.000, -15.070, 3300.000, 0.000, 0.935, 42.000, 0.300, 2.500, 1.200, 7.000, 9.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.1 = 1.000, -3.159, -8.671, -15.000, 3300.000, 1.000, 1.693, 0.000, 0.400, 2.500, 0.800, 8.000, 9.000, 2.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.2 = 1.000, -3.159, 8.671, -15.000, 3300.000, 2.000, 1.693, 0.000, 0.400, 2.500, 0.800, 8.000, 9.000, 3.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.3 = 4, 25, -2.1514, -11, 3333, 0, 0, 30, 1, 2.5, 0.65, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
point.4 = 4, 25, 2.1516, -11, 3333, 0, 0, 30, 1, 2.5, 0.65, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0
point.5 = 4.000, -8.000, -7.000, -11.000, 3333.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 2.500, 0.650, 0.000, 0.000, 2.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.6 = 4.000, -8.000, 7.000, -11.000, 3333.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 2.500, 0.650, 0.000, 0.000, 3.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.7 = 2, -0.7772, -43, -7.6635, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 0, 0
point.8 = 2, -0.8526, 43, -7.6624, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6, 0, 0
point.9 = 2, -36.0753, 0, -7.9236, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 9, 0, 0
point.10 = 2, 22.5004, 0, -12.2503, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0
point.11 = 5.000, -37.810, 0.000, -7.176, 1600.000, 0.000, 0.000, 50.000, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 1.100, 1.500, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000

[Blackbird686]

I had this issue with several amphibian and float planes -- FS9 water is really sticky, versus FSX water. I discussed this problem with Milton Shupe and he suggested changing the prop pitch (on the Avia float models) going to full throttle and working the rudder pedals back and forth to "loosen" things up a bit. By Crikey, it worked! You might want to have a go with that little trick. Also... you may want to keep the flaps up until you get the model moving at a respectable speed, then drop them one notch.


BB686

[Navtech]

Thank you for answer
I think it's another thing running there ....
Even if I land on water at high speed and immediatelly apply full power .. the speed will decay to a stop of the aircraft ....
I do not have this with other seaplanes (like Alphasim Catalina or Arado .. etc ...)
It's really like it was a big break applied when this plane touch water
Mething that some contact points must be wrong ..... or something else ...

[Blackbird686]

Are you flying Swingman's Duck? I have that one installed and it seems fine....

BB686

[Dev One]

Static CG height of 15+ feet?????? Does not sound correct.
Keith

[Milton Shupe]

Did you download the update? http://www.maxtac.it/maxtac-en/index.php

First thing to try is commenting out the crash points, point 7, 8, 9, 10 with slashes.
Sometimes these can cause weird behavior if incorrectly stated, or act as a drag if too deep.

Generally the contact points look okay the best I can tell just looking at them. I would download to test but can't seem to do that without a donation.

[Milton Shupe]

Static CG height of 15+ feet?????? Does not sound correct.
Keith

That looks okay relative to the contact points vertical measurements. Apparently has the Ref point and CoG at wing level where the engine weight and fuel load is.

[Navtech]

Thank you for reply !

Did you download the update? http://www.maxtac.it/maxtac-en/index.php

Yes this the one I use
And YES .. you can download .. even without donation ... but you must be member of the Maxtac site
I will check and test your recommendations

[Navtech]

First thing to try is commenting out the crash points, point 7, 8, 9, 10 with slashes.

Thank you Milton, your trick work fine
BTW Check your PM

[Dev One]

Crash sensitivity.......thats what I forgot about......I needed to reduce it when I was testing Dave M's Walrus! CG height was also a problem when porting over to FSX IIRC.
Keith

[Blackbird686]

Glad you got it sorted... For some reason I thought you were talking about the Grumman Duck... when I saw the thread title. Reckon I should pay more attention to the fine print...

BB686

[Milton Shupe]

Downloaded, installed and tested. Tweaked the contact points for floats and scrapes a bit.

You may try this to see if you feel it improves the overall feel and function. (Save a copy of your original first)

[contact_points]
static_pitch = 0.40
static_cg_height = 15.07
tailwheel_lock = 0
gear_system_type = 0
max_number_of_points = 12

//Wheels
point.0 = 1, 20.863, 0.000, -14.970, 3300.000, 0.000, 0.935, 42.000, 0.300, 2.500, 1.200, 7.000, 9.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.1 = 1, -3.159, -8.671, -14.800, 3300.000, 1.000, 1.693, 0.000, 0.400, 2.500, 0.800, 8.000, 9.000, 2.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.2 = 1, -3.159, 8.671, -14.800, 3300.000, 2.000, 1.693, 0.000, 0.400, 2.500, 0.800, 8.000, 9.000, 3.000, 0.000, 0.000


//Floats
point.3 = 4, 25, -2.1514, -10.7, 3333, 0, 0, 30, 1, 2.5, 0.65, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
point.4 = 4, 25, 2.1516, -10.7, 3333, 0, 0, 30, 1, 2.5, 0.65, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0
point.5 = 4, -8, -7.0000, -9.5, 3333, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2.5, 0.65, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0
point.6 = 4, -8, 7.0000, -9.5, 3333, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2.5, 0.65, 0, 0, 3, 0, 0


//Crash Points
point.7 = 2, -0.7772, -43, -7.6635, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 0, 0
point.8 = 2, -0.8526, 43, -7.6624, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6, 0, 0
point.9 = 2, -36.0753, 0, -6.9236, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 9, 0, 0
point.10 = 2, 22.5004, 0, -7.2503, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0


//Rudder
point.11 = 5.000, -37.810, 0.000, -7.176, 1600.000, 0.000, 0.000, 50.000, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 1.100, 1.500, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000


I also changed the fuel setup as with a water load, the aircraft was 9000 pounds overweight. Since water carrying weight is built into the cfg, I reduced the fuel capacity so you would not have to change fuel each time you fly it. I maintained the original numbers as comments.

[fuel]


//Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)


fuel_type = 2
number_of_tank_selectors = 1
electric_pump = 0


Center1 = 0, 0, 0, 1045, 0 //2045 capacity
LeftMain = 0, -17, -0.41, 376, 0 //776 capacity
RightMain = 0, 17, -0.41, 376, 0 //776 capacity

[Navtech]

Thank you Milton all work perfect and I have now a nice yellow duck !

[Milton Shupe]

You are welcome Sir. It was my pleasure and I am happy that it worked out well.

Have fun :-)

[Tom Clayton]

Only slightly off-topic, but has anyone seen a paintkit for the 415? I see the one for the 215 radial bird, but not the t-prop.

[Txmmy83]

Only slightly off-topic, but has anyone seen a paintkit for the 415? I see the one for the 215 radial bird, but not the t-prop.

have you asked Massimo?

Best Regards
Thomas

[Tom Clayton]

Not yet - I've barely had time to keep up with the forum for the last few days - much less fire up the Sim...