2015 NASCAR Silly Season

[Panther_99FS]

Chase Elliot to replace Kasey Kahne?
All the other Hendrick drivers are supposedly locked in for a few years except Kasey...

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

That would be dumb. I doubt it.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

Whoops false rumor.
Ernie Cope is supposed to be Chase's crew chief for 2015...

[Panther_99FS]

Kasey musta' read this thread!

[Bushpounder]

Kasey hung in there! Good to see all four Hendick drivers in the Winner's Circle. And Danica came in sixth! Good race - Jimmy didn't win!

BP

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Kasey the man!! His year has been krap but tonight puts him in. When the chips are down some drivers know how to step up! Always bet on those guys. I don't think for a second Rick Hendrick would have given up on Kasey.

Once again Kyle proves what a no talent he is.

And I'll comment on something you said a week or so ago. You like Penske but not his drivers. Well Penske has figured out if you want to win in NASCAR hire stock car drivers not open wheeler stock car wannabes. Look at the comparison open wheelers in NASCAR and Kurt Busch as a rookie does what at Indy? No comparison.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

And I'll comment on something you said a week or so ago. You like Penske but not his drivers. Well Penske has figured out if you want to win in NASCAR hire stock car drivers not open wheeler stock car wannabes. Look at the comparison open wheelers in NASCAR and Kurt Busch as a rookie does what at Indy? No comparison.

-Ed-

And I will comment on your comment....
Generally speaking, in Indycar, I never much liked Penske drivers either....But I still respected the man and what he accomplished.

You are simplifying things too much to try and prove something that only exists in your mind - But I've got you figured out now & thus, you can't rile me up anymore...

[Panther_99FS]

Once again Kyle proves what a no talent he is.

-Ed-

Kyle has talent - but he has regressed mentally this year.
So far, his brother seems to have learned a thing or two.

If Joe Gibbs were to drop Kyle - IMHO, none of the big/fast teams would pick him up.

[Panther_99FS]

Kasey hung in there! Good to see all four Hendick drivers in the Winner's Circle. And Danica came in sixth! Good race - Jimmy didn't win!

BP

Yes - overall, The Chase is going to be interesting. "Win you're in" is one of the better rule changes in recent years....

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

It only exists in my mind and in fact. The recent record speaks for itself - I do not need to

Racing has evolved beyond the man (driver) clearly being the dominant factor where a man could race multiple types of cars and still be the dominant factor. This 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s to some extent kind of racing may be what you want but it no longer exists and never will again unless rules bring it back. NASCAR has evolved to where turning left (everybody is skilled a turning left or right) is less important than the ability to communicate and fine tune a car with a CC. I've little doubt the ability to provide the input into an Indy car plus ability got Kurt the success at Indy.

-Ed-

PS Mental problems/regression is not the hallmark of a great race car driver.

[stansdds]

Kyle has talent - but he has regressed mentally this year.
So far, his brother seems to have learned a thing or two.

If Joe Gibbs were to drop Kyle - IMHO, none of the big/fast teams would pick him up.

Kyle seemed to be showing a lack of something last night.

I see that Carl Edwards will be driving the fourth Joe Gibbs car, guess Elliot Sadler needs to either get used to being a permanent full time Nationwide Series driver or look elsewhere.

[Panther_99FS]

Kyle seemed to be showing a lack of something last night.

I see that Carl Edwards will be driving the fourth Joe Gibbs car, guess Elliot Sadler needs to either get used to being a permanent full time Nationwide Series driver or look elsewhere.

Agreed about Kyle! In light of all the Stewart stuff going on, you think he would have learned something.
Also agree about Elliot. I don't see him getting a full time cup ride anymore either - especially with some of the fast young guns in Nationwide....

[Daveroo]

Hey All,

It only exists in my mind and in fact. The recent record speaks for itself - I do not need to

Racing has evolved beyond the man (driver) clearly being the dominant factor where a man could race multiple types of cars and still be the dominant factor. This 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s to some extent kind of racing may be what you want but it no longer exists and never will again unless rules bring it back. NASCAR has evolved to where turning left (everybody is skilled a turning left or right) is less important than the ability to communicate and fine tune a car with a CC. I've little doubt the ability to provide the input into an Indy car plus ability got Kurt the success at Indy.

-Ed-

PS Mental problems/regression is not the hallmark of a great race car driver.

when you speak of "open wheel" are you indicating only "Indy Cars"?,and i dont really see what kurt busch's one off good drive at the 500 is something specail,and needs to be used to say "stock car drivers" havent got it unless they came from,or can drive open wheelers. or maybe im totally missing your point.

bottomline,"open wheelers" come from the sprint car and midget ranks too,....and some are damned good,,Jeff Gordon,Tony Stewart (remember he was a championship winning sprint car driver long before he ran his first indy car race,Jason Leffler,AJ Allmendinger,JJ Yelley ,they may not be big winners in nascar,but theyre competitve,then theres guys like Kyle Larson...oh never mind...

[Panther_99FS]

Dave,
The problem with Indycar these days is that (IMHO) the damage done by Tony George is now virtually beyond repair. At it's peak, the cars had close to 1000 HP with turbo. They were tough to drive & separated the good from the great drivers.

Then came Tony George & his go kart powered IRL cars. Now, an individual who couldn't make it in CART could potentially be an IRL champ!

The turbos are back on the current Indycars but horsepower is still woefully low (around 600-750). IMHO, if Indycar is going to get any respect back, then the horsepower is going to have to get back to the 900+ range which will turn re-separate the good from the great drivers!

[Panther_99FS]

when you speak of "open wheel" are you indicating only "Indy Cars"?,and i dont really see what kurt busch's one off good drive at the 500 is something specail,and needs to be used to say "stock car drivers" havent got it unless they came from,or can drive open wheelers. or maybe im totally missing your point.

Exactly!
Tony George created the all-Oval IRL specifically for American oval racers who came up through the Sprint (USAC) Car ranks!

Problem is, TG got it all wrong when he lowered and IRL car's horsepower to some 300hp LESS than Sprint Cars....

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Why was the horsepower lowered?

-Ed-

[joe bob]

I think TG's problem was to quickly get a car that was inexpensive for team owners but also the series was going to focus on oval racing which presents several issues
By the end of the CART series the technology was such that speeds had reached very dangerous number. There was a collective sigh of relief when you left a track like Michigan without anyone getting seriously hurt.
Now the new series was going to be all about that type of track plus the 1-1.5 mile tracks where packing that many open wheel cars into that small a space was going to ramp up the contact.
Every major league series has struggled with the problem of slowing down fast cars, and I don't think a solution that pleases everyone has been found. TG had to quickly come up with at least a quick and dirty solution.

With that said, he destroyed open wheel racing in the US. I have come to understand some of his reasons for what he did,Roger Penske had much more blame than meets the eye, but Tony George decided to take the nuclear option
Indy car has been a sad back water series ever since.

[Panther_99FS]

I think TG's problem was to quickly get a car that was inexpensive for team owners but also the series was going to focus on oval racing which presents several issues
By the end of the CART series the technology was such that speeds had reached very dangerous number. There was a collective sigh of relief when you left a track like Michigan without anyone getting seriously hurt.
Now the new series was going to be all about that type of track plus the 1-1.5 mile tracks where packing that many open wheel cars into that small a space was going to ramp up the contact.
Every major league series has struggled with the problem of slowing down fast cars, and I don't think a solution that pleases everyone has been found. TG had to quickly come up with at least a quick and dirty solution.

With that said, he destroyed open wheel racing in the US. I have come to understand some of his reasons for what he did,Roger Penske had much more blame than meets the eye, but Tony George decided to take the nuclear option
Indy car has been a sad back water series ever since.

Yes and that IRL car's safety was terrible at best - and bringing down the horsepower did absolutely nothing for safety...that car was simply unsafe.
That being said, I agree that in the big scheme, Roger Penske wasn't innocent...neither was Ganassi....(i.e., the CART owners).

Things should've been worked out but you are correct again - TG took the nuclear option and with the IRL's bad management (remember Andrew Craig?),....Indycar most likely will never recover.

The current cars brought a LITTLE bit of horsepower back (50-100) & the turbos are a welcome addition. Nice to see the current leadership thinking aero reduction first to reduce speed rather than lopping off horsepower...

Current turbocharged Indycars produce from 550-750 HP depending on how they're tuned. In comparison, the IRL cars produced 650-700HP with no turbos.

[stansdds]

I think TG's problem was to quickly get a car that was inexpensive for team owners but also the series was going to focus on oval racing which presents several issues
By the end of the CART series the technology was such that speeds had reached very dangerous number. There was a collective sigh of relief when you left a track like Michigan without anyone getting seriously hurt.
Now the new series was going to be all about that type of track plus the 1-1.5 mile tracks where packing that many open wheel cars into that small a space was going to ramp up the contact.
Every major league series has struggled with the problem of slowing down fast cars, and I don't think a solution that pleases everyone has been found. TG had to quickly come up with at least a quick and dirty solution.

With that said, he destroyed open wheel racing in the US. I have come to understand some of his reasons for what he did,Roger Penske had much more blame than meets the eye, but Tony George decided to take the nuclear option
Indy car has been a sad back water series ever since.

And NASCAR is looking to do the same thing with horsepower and for the same reasons, expense and safety. The end result might be the same too, a glorified and very expensive go-kart race.

[Panther_99FS]

Some food for thought about the safety of these reduced horsepower cars:

-Dan Wheldon, Paul Dan, & Tony Renna all died.
-Sam Schmitt is paralyzed from the neck down.
-Dario Franchitti & Kenny Braack can never race again.

[Terry]

The best way to make them safer is to leave the HP where it is, remove ground effects leaving stock body height, remove the spoiler and splitter, also use a harder tire with less grip. This will force the drivers to slow it down a lot entering the corners. It would be nice to see them have to drive again rather than just aim.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Some food for thought about the safety of these reduced horsepower cars:

-Dan Wheldon, Paul Dan, & Tony Renna all died.
-Sam Schmitt is paralyzed from the neck down.
-Dario Franchitti & Kenny Braack can never race again.

Obviously open wheel need to bring in NASCAR experts on safety to render the cars safer. Look at NASCAR - they can now have horrendous looking crashes and everybody can have a juicebox afterwards. Can you seriously make the argument that any of these drivers would be fine if they crashed in the same way in a higher hp car faster? Of course not.

The point is racing is no longer and probably never again be truly about innovation, speed and pushing the edge of man's control over a car. Never again be about separating men from boys based on courage due to fear of bodily harm.

Racing is all about SAFETY because you must at all costs preserve the financial wealth of track owners and insurance companies. So safety trumps the freedom of driver courage and innovation because of money. Every fan, track worker, pit crew member and driver has a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT to go home safe and sound sucking on a juicebox after every race ------ and then there is the MONEY (see above). Safety ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS trumps freedom - see NSA DHS etc for the country but it applies to racing too. Any strategy that tries to allow increases in hp that tempt a man to do more than possible risking safety CANNOT be allowed. Max speed is what must be controlled/prepared for hence we are where we are. NASCAR, IRL and F1 have ALL slowed down.

Think of it this way - Dale Earnhardt died doing what he loved but maybe everybody looking at that crash understood - he should have lived - the car/track/rules just didn't allow it - there wasn't enough safety. Hence we MUST do everything in our power to enable the next Dale Earnhardt to live through a crash like that and race again. That is the lesson of Dale Earnhardt. Racing MUST inherently be made to be a SAFE sport.

I've said all of this so many times it makes me ill to do it again. I've never said I think it fundamentally right - I'm saying this is how it is. As long as we have societies that can sue for BIG MONEY based on lack of safety - even if lack of safety is what we want (cuz it cant happen to me) this will never change.

The solutions - tort reform, people's education about expectations, spend the money on tracks to handle more speed... Until some combination of these happen - get over it get used to it and enjoy some actually pretty good racing that just empathizes different aspects of racing. Oh an what good is bitking about missing a past that cannot be again.

JMBO! (translated - Just My Blunt Opinion) for whatever it is worth.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

Actually,
A combination of F1 & NASCAR safety experts would be best.

F1 hasn't had pro death since Senna in 1994 - the same cannot be said for NASCAR
Dario Franchitti's career ending crash on a street course has absolutely nothing in common with NASCAR whereas outside the obvious aero similarities in construct, F1 also races on street courses.

However, NASCAR expertise could be brought in the case of Sam Schmidt's paralysis causing crash on the Walt Disney World Oval...

With Wheldon's crash, a combination of F1 aero expertise and impact energy reduction expertise could be used with NASCAR back injury data.

Due the spring head injury received by F1s Felipe Massa (and argually Senna too), Indycar has now adopted the carbon fiber piece on the helmet for added driver protection. This is something that's not a necessity in NASCAR due to the closed cockpit. However, Sprint car drivers could probably benefit from this helmet mod.

[Panther_99FS]

And that's the other side of the debate Wombat.

One could also debate that NASCAR vehicles are so safe now that restrictor plates are there only for fan safety & not driver safety.

[b52bob]

Would very much like to see JJ in a F1 car. Not that we will, there is big $$$$ involved in sponsorship and I doubt JJ has that big of an ego like others.

Still......