Might wanna be sitting down for this one...

[Kiwikat]

Certainly agree that its sad to see good people lose their jobs, but there may be a silver lining to this. The problem with both FS9 and FSX were that they were heavily entrenched in M$' doctrine of "force hardware upgrades" and "force people to buy our rubbish OS products" which led to some really crap code and resulting performance issues which is what split the community in the first place. Fact is only Microsoft can get away with that sort of behaviour. The FS franchise itself is a valuable title - possibly the worlds longest running game so the rights are worth $$$. What if someone like EA gets hold of it? Imagine a version of FS that runs smoothly on any machine...even a Mac, or Linux machine! Maybe MS selling off FS is the best thing that could happen to the title. And all those talented developers would find an open door if that occurred.

LPXO

This may be a bit off topic but I have to entirely disagree with you.

EVERY other type of "game" or entertainment title advances hardware or software design somehow. Hardly anyone could play Crysis a year ago, now its "easy" for computers to run. I don't want the next flight simulator to look like Xplane or FS9, I want it to look like FTX or better. If you want to play a version that runs on a 5 year old machine, play a 5 year old sim. I prefer cutting-edge technology.

[fliger747]

Gibbage:

Good luck with the future. There are always places for talented individuals, though the adjustment when you have finally advanced to the first circle, to shovel coal to feed the fires at some lower level can be difficult.

Good folks and good camaraderie here, so hope to see more of you!

Cheers and good fortune! Tom

[jmig]

Gibbage:

Good luck with the future. There are always places for talented individuals, though the adjustment when you have finally advanced to the first circle, to shovel coal to feed the fires at some lower level can be difficult.

Good folks and good camaraderie here, so hope to see more of you!

Cheers and good fortune! Tom

What an uplifting and positive post. I too wish everyone at Aces the best ion the future. It is not an end. Only the start of a new adventure.

[Pepere]

FSX Dead? Man if I were an addon developer I'd go for it. Now they can make addons that will really make this sim (pardon the expression) fly! This version of flight sim can go for years and only get better. :amen:

David

[Prowler1111]

and further - I would hope that some of the 3rd party groups would get in contact with any ACES people that might be available for hire directly or for consultation - to help with ongoing FSX related projects..or in Razbams case future 'from the ground up' flight simulations...EULA's and NDA's notwithstanding ofcourse

Well, just to add, we need the following:
- particles programmer (effects, flames, smoke trails, sparks, bombing/napalm/white phosphorus etc)

- interface programmer (menus, map, mission editor)

- campaign programmer (mission builders)

- gfx shaders programer (especially post production ones like HDR lighting)


Sorry for hijacking the thread............................................ .............................Not HighJacked at all.....Thanks for putting this out there for any former ACES members to see...It may help.....(Harleyman)

Prowler

[Gibbage]

Gibbage:

Good luck with the future. There are always places for talented individuals, though the adjustment when you have finally advanced to the first circle, to shovel coal to feed the fires at some lower level can be difficult.

Good folks and good camaraderie here, so hope to see more of you!

Cheers and good fortune! Tom

I cant say I agree with you fully. Doing 3rd part work is in now way lowering myself. Lowering my pay? Yes. But NOT in ANY way degrading. What I was doing at MS is the same thing I did when I was working on the 3rd party stuff freelance.

Here is how I look at it. I LOVE aircraft. I love creating things. I love flying. There is NO BETTER job I can think of that combine those 3 aspects into 1 nice little package. A lot of times I had to ask myself "They PAY me for this?" since I was doing what I love! Modeling aircraft!

Working with the guys at Aces was GREAT. An amazing group of people, and a vast wealth of knowledge. I will miss working with them very much, and will keep in contact with them as much as possible. Im just hoping that I can continue to do what I love, and model aircraft! I do have an F4U I need to wrap up. It was put on hold a bit once I got the job at MS.

Gibbage

[heywooood]

Well, just to add, we need the following:
- particles programmer (effects, flames, smoke trails, sparks, bombing/napalm/white phosphorus etc)

- interface programmer (menus, map, mission editor)

- campaign programmer (mission builders)

- gfx shaders programer (especially post production ones like HDR lighting)


Sorry for hijacking the thread............................................ .............................Not HighJacked at all.....Thanks for putting this out there for any former ACES members to see...It may help.....(Harleyman)

Prowler

Hijacking ??! Hell - just what I meant to see when I said it - prolly music to some ACES ears Prowler :ernae:

Razbams Korean Combat flight sim might just have found a bullpup to the fast track

[Smudge]

Bugger...

Firstly, my thoughts are truly with the boys & girls at Aces and their families. Regardless of the industry, jobs around the world are being lost and people are finding times hard. In this industry, sales are down...sure I'm managing to keep the bills paid and will continue to pump out planes until I have to get myself a 'real' job..lol. Hopefully then there'll be one for me!

In either event, generally when one door closes another one opens, which whilst probably unrealistic is a nice optimistic way of looking at things today.

I doubt if the guys at Aces decided to form their own design house outside of MS to focus on a new breed of civilian flightsim, would be able to make use of any FS branding, code etc due to it being MS IP, although someone with some legal experience might be able to shed some light on that. In that case, chances of MS renewing the FS product down the road would purely be on a profit basis.

One thing I though about after the 'oh my god' feeling subsided is the simple fact that the main reason FS is STILL going after all these years is one major point... US. The flightsim community is a varied and close knit group of people, and regardless of your point of view, many would agree it is the FS community and fans that keep the product alive.

WE keep buying it every new version, WE keep downloading freeware work from talented designers who have a passion for one aircraft, airfield or another. WE keep a plethora of small businesses in the payware industry afloat (a point that I am immensely greatfull for!) because WE purchase their work, be it good, bad or ugly..

Whilst ACES is no more, and whilst MS may well have put the stop on any FS releases for the forseeable future, please let us all remember that WE as a community of flightsim fans are the glue that holds it all together. Providing WE continue to support commercial developers, freeware developers, virtual airlines, military fans etc, there will ALWAYS be an avid flightsim following, because simply it is of our making.

I only have to think of the huge fan following of the Falcon 4 sim.. That sim was dropped more than a few years ago from Microproses stable (If I remember correctly) yet its huge fan following, and large ability to mod (much like the FS product) has kept it going to the point where the source code was released many years after for a new build. (again, someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

My heart goes out to the families of those affected by the job cuts, however what would be an even bigger shame would be for the community to drop the hobby just because MS has ceased development of the core program. There are many years left in FSX, many many years in the hobby, and many people who have invested years of their lives at keyboards, mice and joysticks, often to the chargrin of wives/sons/daugters/husbands/dog and/or cat!

I for one will be developing my wares right until Karen tells me to get a real job..lol.

And so it should be.

:woot:

[n4gix]

Wow, I really feel for the employees, but can't help but be angry, especially if the decision came from the bean counters. That would probably mean that the console design studios within MS are still going strong, at least for now. if true, yet another reason to NOT support consoles for me.

According to another article from Gamasutra:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=21971

"The company says that while Xbox 360 platform and PC game revenue drove the increase, it was offset by a decrease in revenue from the company's Zune music player."

How does it make any financial sense to kill one of the cash cows to support a spavined mule? :faint:

[CodyValkyrie]

Gibbage, I sent you a message. I'm sure you already know. I would like to talk if you don't mind.

[stlkrash]

This is UNREAL. This is like the Navy baggin the Tcat. To the guys effected. I am sorry to hear this news and hope you guys get work ASAP. The dev community just made a big gain, M$'s loss. But being as we the flightsim community have one if not the biggest true community following, I am sure things will look up.

[N6722C]

Maybe MS selling off FS is the best thing that could happen to the title. And all those talented developers would find an open door if that occurred.

LPXO

How did laying off employees suddenly JUMP to "selling off MSFS" :gossip:

Temporary setback -- current ecconomic times -- will not last.

Consider ESP, and its potential. No way will ESP die. It might sleep for a bit, but it's potential is to far to great to be burried.
And with ESP, comes Consumer Spin offs like MSFS.

Naturally, we all feel for the ACES employees, but this is happening to many Worldwide.

As far as the USA is concerned - BIG changes for most .. but not the end of the world.

Geoff_D

[PlaneEater]

Until about 2pm today, I shared an office with Gibbage.

I was at ACES as a contractor in 2007 when we shipped FSX:Acceleration, and I built some of the mission set pieces - the Beamtrawler, the Sugarloaf cable cars / facility, the big SAC hangars at Kirtland AFB, some others - plus painted the liveries for Xpack's P-51 (and cleaned up the mess of a model).

I returned to ACES this August, and I dragged Gibbage up here in October to join the team because there was another contractor spot open. We'd known each other since we were in the IL-2 community and worked together on Pacific Fighters, and we'd stayed in touch over the years in between. About a week ago, our boss - who is a flat-out awesome guy - extended my contract to the full span, scheduled to take my 100 day break in July. That's not going to end up being the case.

The only thing I can add is that I can verify what Gibbage has said, and that I lost my job today as well.

One thing that every person at ACES will tell you is that the community and each of you in it mean the world to us for sharing our passion of flight, and so it really hurts that Gib and I can't tell you more. I was a FS fan before I joined the FS team, and being able to work on the sim we all love so much was a dream come true. I just want to thank everyone here for the time and passion they've poured into Flight Sim for so many years, and to let you all know that every person at ACES is in awe of how much the community cares about what we build.

Gib and I both got to keep our plane-buildin' skills, and I'm looking for paying work as well. If anybody wants an ACES-trained aircraft artist (and I can provide other work experience and references... go ahead and ping me here, or hit my web-portfolio: www.garagebay9.com

Thanks again for all the kind words and encouragement during times like this, folks. It really is helping make things a little easier.

- PlaneEater

[warchild]

I for one will be developing my wares right until Karen tells me to get a real job..lol.

And so it should be.

:woot:

And I for one will be right there with ya. Just, at my age, dont expect me to look for a "real" job anytime soon, or in this lifetime even..

There's lot of negatives here, but that said, theres a lot of positives as well. You folks at Aces: Maybe you couldnt write an fde to save your skins, but you more than knew how to create flight physics in the main engine. Just because Aces may be gone doesnt mean that fs is going away. It'll be here for a very long time to come, as long as we, as a community of developers and enthusiasts continue to explore tis thing we call flight sim and push the boundaries further out, creating a better and more rewarding experience for everyone.

It was a very long time ago when Broderbund sold their F-16 Fighting Falcon to Electronic Arts, and again a long time ago that Electronic Arts stopped producing the game, but you can still get it. The F-16 community kept it alive. Except for dates and names, i really dont see a difference, except maybe one. FS has a much larger community.

Another aspect also is that there is X-Plane, and possible cross development for it.. Eliminate the flight sim worlds religious jihad's and work towards one single community (yeahhhh,, i'm a dreamer, but at least i dream big).

In the early Ninties, Bill Gates made an announcement stating that by the year 2000 Microsoft would own all the desktops in the world. A few years later they attempted o get everyone to purchase and use network terminals where you would turn on the terminal and log into your account on the web.. Welll, no one was interested then, so now, we have the X-Box. Maybe it's a good thing they arent going to be developing fs any more. .I personally dont trust their motives. I expect however that fs being a game to them will maybe get ported to the X-box Live and if you want to play it you can pay a fee and log on and fly the toy planes. Otherwise you can pay out the nose for ESP..

It all just means that we as a community, need to be stronger, not freak out, be a little more patient with each other, a little more helpful with the newbies, and a little more adventurous in what we do. Who knows. This may be a golden opportunity for us all, and I'm sorry, but i'm not going to grouse over the loss of ACES if it means those people are now free to develope in ways they have wanted too and couldnt, and cn now be more active with the rest of us..

Pam

[warchild]

Let's be sure not to lose or damage our FS9 and FSX CDs then. May not be able to buy replacements down the line, and we may need 'em for a while!



Mike

My only concern here is that each time you install FSX you have to register it either via the interface or by telephone call.. This could seriously put a crimp in our continuing to enjoy this software.

Pam

[Cerberus]

I’m still having a lot of trouble keeping up with all of the projects we have going on, and could also use some good help again. Don’t hesitate to ask if anyone needs anything.

[barryward12345]

How will this affect FSx activation? Will MS continue to sell FSx?

Barry

[Gibbage]

Im sure MS will still handle activation. That was handled by MS, not some PC at Aces studio.

[Francois]

Anyone need a good aircraft modeler with LOTS of experience?

I am sure that all well-known development houses like RealAir, Flight1, Eaglesoft, Aerosoft, FSAddon and others could use your skills and expertise...... as I am sure that FS isn't dying just yet !

However, working in the add-on business sure isn't as lucrative as being a Microsoft employee, I am sure .... well... up to a few days ago that is :help:

[CodyValkyrie]

I am sure that all well-known development houses like RealAir, Flight1, Eaglesoft, Aerosoft, FSAddon and others could use your skills and expertise...... as I am sure that FS isn't dying just yet !

However, working in the add-on business sure isn't as lucrative as being a Microsoft employee, I am sure .... well... up to a few days ago that is :help:

You speak the truth! I'm sitting here looking at the last couple of dollars on my desk until my next paycheck. Man, I wish cigarettes weren't so expensive.

[n4gix]

If we could get every flightsimmer in the world to pony up $10 or so, maybe we'd have enough capital to start our own flightsimulator line...

[P-12C]

I would love to jump into this thread and shed some light on what happened today, but I must be respectful of the NDA I am under.

I will be looking for work soon, and that can be scary, but I am optimistic that I will land on my feet.

I am VERY proud of my work and the work of all my teammates. FSX will continue to be sold and should have very long legs with all of the great work being done by third party developers.

I'll be checking in to keep some tabs on what is going on in the Flight Sim world.

Thank you for all of your well wishes,

Paul

[CBris]

Reading this thread in parallel with the one on Cessna's standpoint on royalties (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...ead.php?t=2694) it looks like the whole industry is cutting of its face to spite its nose. (Deliberate reversal of that saying) But if anyone is to take up the reins, they'll have to pay royalties to Microsoft. Will EMI be handling the case?

What any new flight sim will look like is anyone's guess right now, but as long as it is away from the Redmond corporate mindset and gets the necessary leadership it deserves, we are still in with a chance.

I really feel for the ACES crew, I also worry for all the other third party developers - from hardware and software and I hope that any new FS owner actually gets the core code as well - royalty free of course.

[CodyValkyrie]

As I have said already in PM to a couple of guys here, let me know if you are looking for some work. I'm keeping my eyes out for a good fit for various clients. Hopefully if nothing else, it wouldn't hurt to do a few spot jobs here and there with some of the guys I work with to make a few bucks.

*shrugs*

Good luck to you all regardless and thanks for your hard work up to this point.

[grunau_baby]

Apart from the shocking news, I really wish everyone personally involved the best for the future! I know how it feels since I lost my own one-man-business 4 years ago when the german webdesign market literally collapsed, but there were other challenges ahead and things actually became better. Don´t give up!!!

I also think there are many chances elsewhere for you talented people. An independant new simline is just one (but very unlike, I guess) future possibity from my usual "against the grain" thinking (I had a dream: FS without MS limitations).

I think the existing platform can still give us enough to enjoy with all the creative input and hopefully it turns out that you can make a living with your labour of love. So I guess we now really should think twice before argueing about addon pricing in the future:redf:.

Our comunity has seen many downturns in the past, but this is a big one for sure, but let´s hope it is a) temporary (market-related) b) giving more time for enhancing the exisiting platform c) creating new ways

Time will tell, maybe it´s still too fresh to be fully overlooking it all.

Alex