Might wanna be sitting down for this one...

**extrudinator** · February 5th, 2009, 02:03

Here are more thoughts on what a stupid decision by Microsoft this was.

http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/200...sim-to-google/

**stiz** · February 5th, 2009, 03:59

Originally Posted by Major_Spittle

Sorry, but 150 people * ~$100,000 / year = a lot. This smells of a house cleaning

well if thats the case then why didnt they get rid of the zune team?? it obvious their not gonna make any money competeing against the Ipod

quicki comparison:

Zune - 120GB, 30 hours music playback, 4 hours video playback, £171 (at current $ to £ conversion, allthough if it ever does come out over here MS would prolly charge £249.99, ya know normanl trick of just changeing the $ to a £ ...)

ipod - 120GB, 36 hours music playback, 150 hours of video, £175.00 - plus it looks better and is actually avialable outside the US!

It just makes no sense even trying to compete ... and as they've said, it actually lost money, so why the heck bother to keep it??

harleyman · February 5th, 2009, 04:29

Major Spittle....

This is not to say Aces wasn't filled with great people who knew their sheet, but perhaps it wasn't a great TEAM of people. Wow, I'm really gonna pay for typing this. :typing:

You are a braver man than me.......LOL

:horseshoe:

**Chuck_Jodry-VJPL** · February 5th, 2009, 04:45

P12-C has posted on his blogsite that he is at work again at "something"
he can't discuss

http://paul-flightsimguy.spaces.live...5FB!1246.entry

**Major_Spittle** · February 5th, 2009, 07:44

Originally Posted by harleyman

Major Spittle....

This is not to say Aces wasn't filled with great people who knew their sheet, but perhaps it wasn't a great TEAM of people. Wow, I'm really gonna pay for typing this. :typing:

You are a braver man than me.......LOL

:horseshoe:

What I mean, and I have seen this first hand, is that you can have group of great programmers with great ideas but the team doesn't organize in a way that produces a great product. Be it lack of consensus or so many ideas and thoughts that it slows actual progress or causes too many changes during production.

I have no idea what the group was like, but I do have my thoughts on FS9 vs FSX. What was released was not the FSX that was advertised. Small upgrade in visuals at a great cost to computing overhead. No DX10, then just a DX10 " preview. A few bells and whistles. Advertised Scaleability for the future, which was little more than a promise that some day a home PC would be able to run the game.

Perhaps if the core group of Aces could regroup for a different developer and make something without MS's scheduling and atmosphere. I do feel they know what most people want in a FS and they care about the FS community.

harleyman · February 5th, 2009, 09:18

I'm with ya Major_Spittle on this........:friday:

**Bjoern** · February 5th, 2009, 10:16

Originally Posted by Lionheart

Where... I ask you... are that mans eyebrows!!!

In eyebrow heaven? :d

MCDesigns · February 5th, 2009, 10:32

Interesting take on this Major_Spittle and I have my own take on it, but again, all this is pure speculation. As for what was released wasn't what was advertised, I don't see that. Other than a more living world, much of what was advertised to me I do see and use in FSX. Yes, DX10 functionality became a fluke, but I feel that has more to do with MS at large with lack of coordination of Vista more than with ACES. As for FSX being just a small upgrade in visuals, it is much more than that from what I have experienced. I think many just see it as that since they don't really go beyond what they see. To be completely honest, if FSX was just an upgrade from FS9 to give more performance headroom, better AI experience, better flight dynamics, better accusim type programming by default, better weather, etc without the increased autogen, higher res textures and features like bumpmapping, etc I would have probably stayed with FS9 as none of that interests me.

Perhaps if the core group of Aces could regroup for a different developer and make something without MS's scheduling and atmosphere. I do feel they know what most people want in a FS and they care about the FS community.

I do agree with this though. I feel that many of FSX's shortcomings are because of the company involvements in the product development and their budgets on resources and not due to what ACES did. I mean, who do you think can provide a better FS experience, developers that are pilots, or bean counters, LOL.

**spotlope** · February 5th, 2009, 10:53

I'll repeat this here because it made such an impression on me. A couple of years ago, Arno put on a presentation at the MS DevCon in which he did a slideshow comparing screenshots of the same stock scenery, taken from the same angle, in as many versions of FS as he could get to run. Visually, it was a real eye-opener... by far, I thought the biggest improvement in graphics in a single version was the jump from FS9 to FSX. There was incremental progress all along the timeline, of course, but FSX really stood out as an enormous imrovement over the others. I just can't agree that we only got a minor improvement in graphics... it was huge.

**spotlope** · February 5th, 2009, 10:59

Originally Posted by Bjoern

:costumes:

Separated at birth?

**Lionheart** · February 5th, 2009, 11:11

Originally Posted by spotlope

Separated at birth?

lolol....

**Lionheart** · February 5th, 2009, 11:16

Quote:Perhaps if the core group of Aces could regroup for a different developer and make something without MS's scheduling and atmosphere. I do feel they know what most people want in a FS and they care about the FS community.

I do agree with this though. I feel that many of FSX's shortcomings are because of the company involvements in the product development and their budgets on resources and not due to what ACES did. I mean, who do you think can provide a better FS experience, developers that are pilots, or bean counters, LOL.
__________________
Regards, Michael

I agree with this also.

I think if Aces had what they needed, alot of FS would be different.

Famous saying; 'A camel is a horse designed by a committee'.

A product needs vision. A visionary in a product line or company can, if given control and he is competent, can go amazingly far. For instance, Bill Gates. He took a small firm with a few people and with that, became one of the most successful people on Earth. If Aces had carte blanche in their 'needs' and direction (scheduling, parameters, core design, work group/team members/help), I think we would never had heard about frame rates, and other issues.

Vision, vision, vision.....

Bill

**IanP** · February 5th, 2009, 11:33

And, of course, an unlimited budget and guaranteed recouping of costs, which is where the "vision" falls over, because reality is that accountants have to run a commercial entity. Otherwise it ceases being a commercial entity, because it very quickly ceases being an entity altogether.

**Warrant** · February 5th, 2009, 11:35

Originally Posted by Lionheart

I agree with this also.

I think if Aces had what they needed, alot of FS would be different.

Famous saying; 'A camel is a horse designed by a committee'.

A product needs vision. A visionary in a product line or company can, if given control and he is competent, can go amazingly far. For instance, Bill Gates. He took a small firm with a few people and with that, became one of the most successful people on Earth. If Aces had carte blanche in their 'needs' and direction (scheduling, parameters, core design, work group/team members/help), I think we would never had heard about frame rates, and other issues.

Vision, vision, vision.....

Bill

Well said, Bill

I totally second that!

**Lionheart** · February 5th, 2009, 14:10

Thanks Warrant.

Originally Posted by IanP

And, of course, an unlimited budget and guaranteed recouping of costs, which is where the "vision" falls over, because reality is that accountants have to run a commercial entity. Otherwise it ceases being a commercial entity, because it very quickly ceases being an entity altogether.

Ian,

I see your point too. Business is business.

Here though is a classic example, talking of bean counters, product vision, and product line success in a huge corporation filled with products.

GM started a brand new company from scratch. New factories, new management system, new cars made from the ground up, even with their own new engine designs. Saturn car company. They were 'off limits' to GM. That company (Saturn) was so successful, they could barely keep up with sales.

Now, Saturn has been basically integrated into the GM shadows, the product lines no longer reflect new advancements and neat, intriquing qualities. Instead, they look amazingly 'inexpensive' compared to what they used to be. (In their big days, they competed with Honda, which is huge in the car world).

I hate to put down a product, so for all Saturn enthusiasts, my apologies. I wish GM would leave you guys alone and let Saturn make their cars their way.

Same with FS. I wish MS would leave Aces alone and let them make their sim.

Bill

**kjb** · February 5th, 2009, 20:35

Same with FS. I wish MS would leave Aces alone and let them make their sim.

I think that would have been the smarter answer. Assuming it was profitable, spinning it off into a separate division would make sense. Shutting it down because it doesn't meet some new mission statement about synergy and strategic visions doesn't make sense. I can't see the logic in killing a profitable part of a company, regardless of how small it is.

**crashaz** · February 5th, 2009, 21:13

http://www.enterpriseirregulars.com/EI/34879

Microsoft cedes world sim to Google?

Ugh... I still want to just slap myself.:faint:

**Lionheart** · February 6th, 2009, 09:59

Originally Posted by crashaz

http://www.enterpriseirregulars.com/EI/34879

Microsoft cedes world sim to Google?

Ugh... I still want to just slap myself.:faint:

You know.... Its funny you bring this up.

I was playing around on Google Earth the other day, checking out Paris at a 30 degree angle, when all of a sudden, all these buildings started popping up.

It seems people have been making 3D buildings quite a bit, and alot of them (not all) are mapped with textures.. Google even features mips which would fuzz out (on the buildings) when you were far away from them, just like FS does.

.........and... I got to thinking.. How cool would it be if Google did a sim? They already have a sim, but what if they went a step farther and had exterior views and you could have your own planes like in FS?

Now... Think about it. You would have 'the world' in photo scenery...... The world! (all of Earth...)

If that could be done, with good frame rates, that would be one impressive sim.

I for one love flying with FS in TileProxy mode, though it stopped working for me a couple of weeks ago, which makes me think the groups that have photo scenery have shut down access for it by simmers. But when simming with photo real scenery, its just amazing how you can fly over famous locations and see everything from highways, to famous landmarks, to shopping malls.

A next-generation Google Sim might be one awesome thing. Might, lol... it WOULD be awesome!

Bill

**stiz** · February 6th, 2009, 10:02

i actually think that if a google sim would be utter crap, i actually find google earth horrid to look at from any other angle other than straight down

***cajj1*** · February 6th, 2009, 10:37

Even the BBC have picked the story up now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7874937.stm

The article includes a wonderful quote from Nels Anderson:

Flight sims were one of the few things about Microsoft people actually liked.

**extrudinator** · February 6th, 2009, 15:10

The future of computing will be The Metaverse, and Microsoft wants to own it. I just can't believe that they jettisoned their core talent in this area. I don't believe it. I think we will find out the truth of this shortly.

**Chuck_Jodry-VJPL** · February 6th, 2009, 15:24

" The Metaverse " Isnt that called the Cloud by these companies ?

Ms has their own personal Guru , wants to change our lives ....

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-12/ff_ozzie

**crashaz** · February 6th, 2009, 20:22

Yeah? Well they sure got Flight Simulator in startup mode. :karate:

**extrudinator** · February 7th, 2009, 04:23

Hmmmm.

It looks like Microsoft is run by a lunatic and a guy who wants to relive his glory days at the University of Illinois. Maybe Microsoft IS dead??

If you click on the words "The Metaverse" in my post it will take you to the Wiki article explaining what it is. It's the future of computing. One day you will don your Track IR-like device and go shopping on Gates Street in downtown Virtual City and just move around and interact with other people just like moving around and interacting in the "real" world. Communicate by voice (interpreted if required) and do business just as if you could move around the globe at will (like Superman)-- because you WILL be able to move around the globe at will. Don't like the price that guy is charging for Number 4 Wing Nuts? Go shopping in South Africa or take a side trip to Smolensk. Compare prices from around the world and set up deals without ever leaving your home office.

Is there a problem with shipping? Troubleshoot your delivery in The Metaverse. The merging of this "reality" with "virtual reality" will become more and more seamless over time. Eventually, we will swap back and forth from one "reality" to the other without blinking. All interfaces will become one.

This is twenty years in the future. Get ready for it. If Microsoft messes up at this stage they will be out of the game.

**Prowler1111** · February 7th, 2009, 05:07

If Microsoft messes up at this stage they will be out of the game.

Honestly, i don´t give a @#| about MS disapearing or not, i do care what will happen to the FS franchise....they deserve whatever they will take, on my books, bunch of punks....

Prowler