AI Traffic Question Please?

[dougal]

Been playing around with 'AIFP2' to creat some military flight plans.

It may seem a silly question, that might just be staring me in the face, but is there a way create specific flight plans using waypoints of choice? It appears to just make direct flights with a downwind and base leg.

[dexthom]

In AIFP2 you can add or delete legs to a flight plan. Go to help and pull up the user manual.

[dougal]

In AIFP2 you can add or delete legs to a flight plan. Go to help and pull up the user manual.

Ah right thanks. I had completely misunderstood that. I thought a leg had end at a field so thanks.

[falcon409]

Ah right thanks. I had completely misunderstood that. I thought a leg had end at a field so thanks.

That was my understanding too. I've not ever seen an AI Flight Plan with waypoints. . .they're always "direct to" flights that go between two airports.

[dougal]

That was my understanding too. I've not ever seen an AI Flight Plan with waypoints. . .they're always "direct to" flights that go between two airports.

Thanks for that, I thought so. I've been driving myself nuts trying to work that out. AIFP2 certainly is a nice piece of kit, but it looks like there's no way to create full flight plans - like you say, only direct to.

[Bjoern]

It's not AIFP's fault. It's simply how MSFS' AI engine works. More detailed AI handling would require more processing power and we all know most flyers prefer to waste said CPU time on simulated farts from the pilot's dog due to changes in air density.

[falcon409]

Thanks for that, I thought so. I've been driving myself nuts trying to work that out. AIFP2 certainly is a nice piece of kit, but it looks like there's no way to create full flight plans - like you say, only direct to.

I did find this in the Help File (man, that's a long read, lol).
"So, if you attempt to control AI routing by using “waypoints” in your flight plans, make sure your waypoint definitions include a helipad"

So it appears that it only considers airports as waypoints and not what we would assume to be waypoints (intersections or random points along the flight path).

[PHo17]

I met this problem as early as in "FS2004" times. I made AI traffic for Lukla (VLNK) airport in Himalaya mountains. In all cases the AI airplanes had to fly over surrounding mountains of Lukla and none couldn't handle the deep dive on VLNK runway. They "crashed" (went through) into the mountain walls behind Lukla and missed landing.

One couldn't see any AI plane landing on VLNK though due to the nature of simulator's AI traffic planes appeared on Lukla airfield and ware there after loading Lukla scenery.

I tried to find a way for AI planes to fly along valleys (as does the real traffic there) but didn't ever succeed. It seems that there isn't a way in simulators to use waypoints for AI traffic.


Pekka

[SabreAce]

The only way I've ever seen work is the one the MAIW team use, which I've adapted a couple of times for use on other fields. The short version is that you create a fake airport, with a zero-length runway, at whatever altitude you want, and set it to whatever lat/long you want your waypoint at. Then, when you create the flightplan, you set it to TNG. If you set the time between the TNG and setting off for the next airport to less than 20 minutes, the AI should, in theory, hit the waypoint, think "nope, not enough time to land here", and head off for the next airport/waypoint.

So, using KBOS as our initial setup...

1. Create waypoint airport, and call it something like KBO1
2. Set it to wherever you want the waypoint for the flight out of KBOS.
3. Create the flightplan to leave KBOS, fly to KBO1, do TNG for 15 minutes, and then return to KBOS.

I do have to note some things, for clarity's sake:
-This was all done in FS9, and I've never had the chance to try it out in FSX. It hasn't worked everytime for me, but it has more often than not.
-The AI will generally hit the waypoint as a "missed approach", so the AI will drop its gear and act as though it's about to land on nothingness. At some point, it will pull up, retract the gear, and head on its merry way. That, unfortunately, is a limitation of the FS AI engine.
-You could use an already existing airport as a waypoint, but the AI will then drop down into the pattern, and fly a missed approach on said airport, which would look quite strange if you are, for example, setting a fighter patrol pattern at 20,000ft.

Hope that helped at least a little. You might want to drop a line to the MAIW crew, and see if they can give you a clearer walkthrough on the waypoint system.

[Bjoern]

I tried to find a way for AI planes to fly along valleys (as does the real traffic there) but didn't ever succeed. It seems that there isn't a way in simulators to use waypoints for AI traffic.

There is, but it's not done with waypoints in flight plans. It's controlled by approaches hardcoded into the airport files. You can edit these with ADE.

It's a bit of a complex subject and will require lots of reading and trial&error, but it can be done.
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/thr...roaches.14074/

[Victory103]

As SabreAce mentioned and myself a user of all things MAIW, that's the standard way to get the AI to leave and come back "sortie style" with the fake waypoints. A new freeware program I've been playing with is AISIDSTAR on the Avsim forums. This programs uses the "slew" feature on the AI to route them around set real world SID and STAR transitions. I've been trying to get the program to work in traditional military style overhead arrivals. One should be able to design a fake SID or STAR with custom waypoints for the AI model to be slewed around to.