Yo Rami! A small preview of the Italian sceneries

[Rami]

Stefano,

Thank you, I will test them this evening. I just didn't want to wipe out what you have already done.

[kelticheart]

and for reference a similar RR viaduct destroyed across the Adriatic in Yugoslavia:

http://www.warwingsart.com/12thAirForce/borovnica.html

Hi CrisGer!

I am always amazed at how most of you are able to find WWII obscure info and photos!

I do my share of searching by typing all kinds of words in Google search engine, but I'll be darned if I ever stumbled on something as great as the above! Is it a matter of sheer luck or should I take a course about Internet search engines?

I opened any link that came out when I typed in "WWII" and "Ferrara", but I never got what you posted. I'd sure like to learn how to manage that!

Still, I cannot see any oil refinery in those WWII Ferrara pictures....

A comment about what you wrote on those old RR viaducts. All of those magnificent operas were literally built by hand.
If we consider when they were built, from the end of the 19th century all the way up the beginning of WWI, all of the construction machinery we take for granted nowadays hadn't even been imagined yet. Pickaxes, shovels, trowels and wheelbarrows driven by entire armies of people were the only high-tech known back then. Stones, shaped by chisels and hammers, and clay bricks, bound together with hand-made concrete, were the only building materials known at the time.

What's really amazing is that most of them that escaped WWII are still standing and crossed by trains nowadays.

Cheers!
Stef

[CrisGer]

Hi and please just call me Cris thanks and i am so glad you found my humble research for you useful. I love digging, and Rami can tell you I enjoy the hunt. I was actually trained in research long ago, as i planned a career either in history or archaeology and still love it. Human endevour and the amazing things people build, achieve and do still amaze me yes ...re those viaducts, i was thinking of that , those huge high ones were built by hand, using scaffolds that were as amazing as the bridges and viaducts that they created with them. I am glad to hear they are still there and were repaired. Please let me know if and when you need info and I will be happy to lend a hand, if you follow those links there is a ton more info connected thru them for bombing missions, it appears many of the US and also the German pilots kept their mission orders and those are an amazing source of actual real time data and detail.

i didnt see a steel mill either. I cant find any reference for one, not even a rolling mill. I think the main target in Ferrara was the large RR station and marshaling yard. Ironic that I have designed activities for it from the early 1900s. You are doing great work! let me know if i can help out any time .. Rami has my Skype address too.

[kelticheart]

...re those viaducts, i was thinking of that , those huge high ones were built by hand, using scaffolds that were as amazing as the bridges and viaducts that they created with them.....

Thank you, Cris, for offering your help!

I could have sworn Ferrara had an oil refinery plant during WWII, but evidently I was wrong. The main reason why I got stubborn in trying to build it, is due to one of CFS2 mysterious bugs.

I prefer to have dedicated GSL files for each scenery. They are easier to handle, move around and delete from the cumulative cfs2.gsl if needs be, but there's a glitch to this method.

When we install a Global Scenery Layer (GSL) file adding objects to a given scenery, we add one or more GOBS (this is CFS2 terminology) to the main cfs2.gsl file. As far as I understood it, a gob is related to the location where one puts a scenery object and its area is limited. When MB, or one of the great gsl scenery tools released by Martin Wright, saves a layout into a gsl file, it saves it assigning a sort of "gob address" to it. Such address is that series of numbers written in the gsl filename, if we allow the default save and do not change it into something more comprehensive by human beings as I do.

When exploring a cumulative gsl file with Wright's "GSLEdit" utility, we see a whole bunch of those gob numbers listed if there are objects placed far enough from any given airport saved in our CFS2 airbase.dat file. If they lay near the airport listed location, they are easily spotted because the airport name is displayed instead. The airport represents a "gob", often times more than just one if the airbase is big.

When we add a gsl file, made up of one ore more "gobs", if there is another gob nearby with scenery objects in, the objects are deleted from the cumulative gsl file as if the new gob/s overwrote the old ones.

In order to avoid this annoying bug, one must plan in advance the whole scenery layout and add every single object in it. This is what happened with my work in Ferrara when I went to add the refinery buildings, which nowadays are located North of Ferrara, sandwiched between the city and the Po river. The airport lays just out of the city limits, South of Ferrara. When I first added the refinery scenery dedicated gob, the entire airport objects disappeared from CFS2. When I added the airport layout back, it ate the refinery......

This wasn't the first time it happened since I started playing with gsl sceneries, I knew the cure. But this is why I held back Ferrara since last summer when I started working on this project. If indeed an oil plant existed here during WWII, its scenery objects must be saved in the same file holding all of the airport objects, as this is the only way to avoid the gobs deleting each other when installed separately.

Once we determine if that darn' refinery was there or not during WWII, I can release Ferrara for our beta testers.

Let me add you touched a sad note, when you wrote about the amazing scaffoldings that were built to raise RR viaducts. Many masons, carpenters and bricklayers lost their lives falling from them and it wasn't just because it was over a century ago. Big construction sites are extremely dangerous places to be in even today. I'd rather fly an airplane.....

TO EVERYBODY:

Please, find attached a new beta file which includes everything I did, so far, to replace what was lost a while ago. Besides, a separate file containing wood board textures for Mask Rider's bamboo covered objects that I use in ETO sceneries.

Discard the one I previously attached (I am unable to delete it myself, for some reason), since I changed some of the Po bridge objects in this new one.

Cheers!
Stef

[Blood_Hawk23]

The GOB issue is one of the main reasons my WWI scenery is still sitting on the shelf. How do I fix it. you can send it by PM or email if it will take alot of time to explain. but I have to know how to fix the GOBs.

[Rami]

The GOB issue is one of the main reasons my WWI scenery is still sitting on the shelf. How do I fix it. you can send it by PM or email if it will take alot of time to explain. but I have to know how to fix the GOBs.

Blood_Hawk23,

If you meet me on Skype tonight, I will give you the keys to the GSL kingdom.

[Blood_Hawk23]

But...

I'm working some OT tonite. I'll be going in for 8pm. Which means I'm leaving at 7pm. I HATE being late. So I will have to catch you this weekend. I'll be doing OT the next 3 nights.

Don't lose the thought. I still want to know. I have all of the tools (MW's full set) I just need the knowledge to go with it. And as of right now the brain to help LOL. Time for bed.

Till Later,
John

[Blood_Hawk23]

and for future Ref.

Blood_Hawk23 is my gaming name. I've used it and Polar_Lion for 18+ years.

But to make things easy, You guys can call me Blood, or Hawk, or BloodHawk. 23 is just the day I was born and I needed a number for a game name so no worries on that.

Or just call me John.

Don't use BH because its a ref for a womans bra in some of the euro languages. I forget which ones.
I don't answer to JP or Johnny. In fact either will get you shot.

and don't use John Paul because that means I'm in trouble and I'll run and hide. especially if its in French. Yes I heard it alot growing up LOL

So thats that.

Till later,
John or what ever my name is...

[kelticheart]

.....Don't use BH because its a ref for a womans bra in some of the euro languages. I forget which ones....

WHAT?...

So very sorry! I didn't know that, in my language it spells "reggiseno". Come to think of it, the literal translation in English would be "Breast Holder", hence BH.

I duly apologise, Blood_Hawk23, I am only becoming lazy with my typing, I reckon it's not a good thing. It'll never happen again, at least from me.

Cheers!
Stef

P.S.: Send me your e-mail address, mine is listed in each readme I uploaded. I'll mail out to you whatever info/tutorials I have in my archives about building gsl sceneries.

[Blood_Hawk23]

WHAT?...

So very sorry! I didn't know that, in my language it spells "reggiseno". Come to think of it, the literal translation in English would be "Breast Holder", hence BH.

I duly apologise, Blood_Hawk23, I am only becoming lazy with my typing, I reckon it's not a good thing. It'll never happen again, at least from me.

Cheers!
Stef

P.S.: Send me your e-mail address, mine is listed in each readme I uploaded. I'll mail out to you whatever info/tutorials I have in my archives about building gsl sceneries.

To tell you the truth its not that big of a deal. I didn't know until about5 years ago when a freind of mine from another game told me about it. He was Dutch. It was kind of funny to find that out.

[kelticheart]

To tell you the truth its not that big of a deal. I didn't know until about5 years ago when a freind of mine from another game told me about it. He was Dutch. It was kind of funny to find that out.

Thanks, John!

TO EVERYBODY:

Please, find attached my interpretation of Achim's Italy scenery, Ferrara airport. Loosely based on today's Google sat pictures of the area, keeping in mind how lesser built it must have been during WWII.

Cheers!
KH

[Rami]

Kelticheart,

I tested all of the scenery, including the airbases...and your work is outstanding. It really adds a touch of realism.

[kelticheart]

Kelticheart,

I tested all of the scenery, including the airbases...and your work is outstanding. It really adds a touch of realism.

Thank you!

Rami, I misled you about Reggio Emilia. I did change something I thought important, I did not remember it when you asked.

Achim's instructions indicate that any spot in the airport with oil tanks is the refuelling area. He usually places Mask Rider/LW's small oil tanks in it, but I thought they are not very realistic, considering wartime need to keep flammables well separated from aircrafts and other vital structures during possible air attacks. I replaced all of those tanks with Dave Mangum's Luftwaffe oil drums and/or Wolfi's oil drums only. I updated Reggio Emilia as well.

They might be more difficult to locate, but they sure look more realistic than before, besides of being less dangerous in case of a proximity, or even direct, bomb hit. I used Mask Rider/LW's oil tanks in other parts of the scenery, together with Canion's generic large oil tank, simulating a fuel and lubricant depot. I placed them well away of the runways, hangars, revetments and other buildings, as it surely must have been during WWII. In Piacenza case, just because I am lucky enough to have visited the site numerous times since I was a kid, I created a fuel/ammo dump as close as possible to where it still stands nowadays.

Sorry about Reggio E., you might want to extract it from the pack I posted above and take a peek at it.

Come to think of it, in my install Achim's additions of Ghedi and Verona, plus his reworks of Ferrara and Treviso (which I am currently working on) fill up my aircraft tanks 100% anywhere in the scenery and not only in the dedicated refuelling spot, as before. Is it the same case with yours? I don't like it very much, because I have no control over my fuel load anymore. As soon as the aircraft is spawn in Free Flight in any of the above sceneries, I get an instant fill up!

Cheers!
KH

[Rami]

Stefano,

Not to worry, I removed any old versions first out of habit to avoid any conflicts, so there were no issues as a result. And thanks for the additional info!

[kelticheart]

This time I am attaching for preview and testing my gsl rework of Achim's Treviso, Trento and Milano-Linate.

Milano-Linate should really be moved to its real location, as Skylane found out here:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...l=1#post874324

Milano-Linate layout is so dependent on the shape of the Idroscalo that it almost doesn't make any sense having it where it is now.

Is there any chance that Achim will consider moving Linate to its real location?

Cheers!
KH

[Rami]

Stefano,

Sorry, I missed downloading this! I will test it this evening, get in contact with Achim, and report back.

[kelticheart]

Stefano,

Sorry, I missed downloading this! I will test it this evening, get in contact with Achim, and report back.

Hi there, no worries, I know about your life schedule!

Achim wrote me two days ago, letting me know his pc is following the same fate as your laptop. Since he hadn't budgeted a new machine, he is planning to get another one in a little while.

Therefore, we'll have to be patient for the new Ramitelli and the other Foggia airfield complex strips he wants to do. I asked him to let me know where I can assist him in finding info and data about Italian airfields, mentioning also the location problem with Milano-Linate.

We'll have to wait. I just spent Liberation Day holyday weekend, (April 25th, 1945) in Torino with me hon. We visited the Egyptian Museum, which is supposed to be the second more important museum of Ancient Egypt for variety and number of finds in the world, after the more famous one in Cairo, London being the third. I took the opportunity to take a peek at Torino-Caselle airport, which is supposed to be the same Achim calls Venaria.

Venaria Reale was the hunting lodge of the ancient Savoia royal family. Over the centuries, it was built into a complex of palaces and became a country town, the airport lays just north of Venaria Reale centre of town. I could not see anything resembling the WWII layout, but I got a pretty good idea about how to proceed with Achim's scenery.

Meanwhile, I am almost ready to upload a new set of props for Akemi/Daedalus' new FW190A and F series......

Cheers!
Stef

[kdriver]

Hi Stef,

I just had a fly around northern Italy to inspect your work. You've done a fantastic job! You've really enhanced Achim's lovely airfields. The River Po bridges look great.

I think you should also publish what you've done so far to the British airfields.

Well done ,

Kevin

[kelticheart]

Hi Stef,

I just had a fly around northern Italy to inspect your work. You've done a fantastic job! You've really enhanced Achim's lovely airfields. The River Po bridges look great.

I think you should also publish what you've done so far to the British airfields.

Well done,

Kevin

Thank you Kevin!

The RAF airfield project is momentarily on hold, but I completely revamped most of those too. Over the years, I learned to distinguish the best fps performing objects from the worst ones and, in the process, I realised my earliest gsl work, both on Achim's and Pen32Win's 2TAF sceneries, was filled with "framehog" objects.

Then came Canion's great ETO object libraries while Pen discovered, and fixed, the Gary20's RAF objects bug, which I found plagues also Xavierb2's objects, particularly his ETO hangars and some of his warehouses. Ultimately, Captain Kurt released stock objects repainted in ETO style, stock objects being the best fps performers.

Therefore I HAD TO go over all of what I did. The Cees Donker's RAF object library recently uploaded is another invitation to put the British airfield projects back on my active list, now that those objects are available to everybody. I'll have to test this new library to see how it impacts framerate.

I hope, some day to be able to release ALL ETO sceneries revisited. Achim's and Pen's, because Achim's simpler layouts in my opinion fit very well the first half of the conflict, while Pen's more complex sceneries are great for the latter part of ETO WWII.

Not only, I had started working on the original Gary20's BoB airfields also, coupling them with Rami's layouts where necessary. I intend to complete and release them too, but it'll take a while before everything will be completed!

Cheers!
Stef

[Rami]

Stefano,

I finally got a chance to test these three airfields. I concur with what Kevin said, these bases along with the Po River bridges are fantastic!

[kelticheart]

Stefano,

I finally got a chance to test these three airfields. I concur with what Kevin said, these bases along with the Po River bridges are fantastic!

Thanks to both you and Kevin!

Since I started Torino-Venaria (Caselle), I was thinking that at this point, once Torino is completed, I could make a JHS/KH Northern Italy pack and upload it. Rather than just attaching appetizers to a forum thread, it's high time I offered a main course dish....

If and when Achim will be able to adjust the problems I pointed out earlier, which are:

1. correcting the takeoff/landing direction in Free Flight for Piacenza-San Damiano
2. moving Milano Linate to the correct coordinates (this would allow building also a pier structure and a civilian airport structure for the Idroscalo)
3. adding Montichiari runway to the Ghedi scenery

then I will upload an update pack.

I would advise Achim to break down his Italian pack in Northern, Central and Southern Italy as I did. It makes gsl work and installation easier and much less less overwhelming when thinking to do any kind of update, improvement or modification.

Historically the three parts of the boot are divided as the picture I attached:

• Northern Italy: the Po Valley from the Alps to the Appennini Northern side bordering it;
• Central Italy: from the Appennini Southern side bordering the Po Valley to the border set by three regions South of Roma, Lazio, Abruzzo and Molise;
• Southern Italy: South of the above, including the two major islands of Sardegna and Sicilia.

Cheers!
Stef

[Captain Kurt]

Kelticheart you're forcing my hand before all is done but you may want to add these as well when you are ready

I'm adding to the airfields in Italy as I work through the development of the 82nd Fighter Group Campaign. It always seems that no matter how many airfields are made by others I somehow pick a group that never used or attacked any of them. So I'm left to make the fields. So far I have these new fields (as well as 1 English, 2 Algerian and 2 Tunisian fields) and expect to need to make more as I go on:

[runway.240]
id=8731
name=Italy - San Pancrazio
base_lat=N40 25.93
base_lon=E17 51.53
base_alt=143
heading=321
allegiance=0
units_across=2
takeoff_start_pos=100,0
takeoff_stop_pos=1600,200
landing_start_pos=5000,350
landing_touchdown_pos=550,0
landing_stop_pos=-250,0

[runway.241]
id=8732
name=Italy - Lecce
base_lat=N40 20.94
base_lon=E18 13.78
base_alt=112
heading=330
allegiance=0
units_across=2
takeoff_start_pos=100,0
takeoff_stop_pos=1600,200
landing_start_pos=5000,350
landing_touchdown_pos=550,0
landing_stop_pos=-250,0

[runway.242]
id=8733
name=Italy - Foggia Vincenzo
base_lat=N41 16.22
base_lon=E16 10.37
base_alt=184
heading=20
allegiance=0
units_across=2
takeoff_start_pos=100,0
takeoff_stop_pos=1600,200
landing_start_pos=5000,350
landing_touchdown_pos=550,0
landing_stop_pos=-250,0

[runway.243]
id=8734
name=Sardinia - Villacidro
base_lat=N39 25.49
base_lon=E08 46.32
base_alt=581
heading=160
allegiance=0
units_across=6
takeoff_start_pos=100,0
takeoff_stop_pos=1600,200
landing_start_pos=5000,350
landing_touchdown_pos=550,0
landing_stop_pos=-250,0

[runway.244]
id=8735
name=Sardinia - Olbia Landing Field
base_lat=N40 56.28
base_lon=E09 30.12
base_alt=2
heading=122
allegiance=0
units_across=6
takeoff_start_pos=100,0
takeoff_stop_pos=1600,200
landing_start_pos=5000,350
landing_touchdown_pos=550,0
landing_stop_pos=-250,0

[runway.245]
id=8736
name=Sardinia - Olbia SP
base_lat=N40 55.69
base_lon=E09 32.23
base_alt=0
heading=90
allegiance=0
units_across=6
takeoff_start_pos=100,0
takeoff_stop_pos=1600,200
landing_start_pos=5000,350
landing_touchdown_pos=550,0
landing_stop_pos=-250,0

[runway.246]
id=8737
name=Sardinia - Alghero Airfield
base_lat=N40 37.52
base_lon=E08 17.19
base_alt=56
heading=202
allegiance=0
units_across=2
takeoff_start_pos=-30000,0
takeoff_stop_pos=1600,200
landing_start_pos=5000,350
landing_touchdown_pos=550,0
landing_stop_pos=-250,0

[dvslats]

Hi KH,

Can you tell me which package has the "windsock_s" ?

Thanks, Dave

[Rami]

Dvslats,

Here: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...tid=45&id=2107

[dvslats]

Dvslats,

Here: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...tid=45&id=2107

Thanks Rami.