CFS2 Knowledge needed.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Hey All,

Ok here are my thoughts first.

I want to make the SBC's for the Lancaster. The SBC's were Small Bomb Carriers used by the British for carrying the 4lb incendiary up to the 40lb GPs. They were rather basic and varied in size from i believe 250lb up to 1000lb capacity.

So now that you know what they are, I'm wondering how we could make them. I know there are limitations to what CFS2 can do but I'm thinking of something like the rocket pod setup. Not sure what the limits are for number of items per unit.

Here are some of my questions.
We have a limit of 20 or 22 mounts correct?

How many bombs can go for each mount?

Next can we add bombs to a Pylon DP or any weapon DP?


I can't remember it all and some I've never tried. If I can get some of this answered then I can come up with something.

Till Later,
John

[Allen]

The max number of mounts is 0 to 24. No a weapon can not have a weapon.

[Shessi]

John, here's an idea.

If you made a small dropping pattern of 4lb-ers, and made them as one bomb, you could then drop up to 24 of them. They would of course be hidden inside the ac until dropped, and exit the ac as a freshly dropped dropping pattern. Now Bill Dickens aka Bismarck13 did some AI bomb loads which AI ac drop. They are modelled as one solid load of 10-20 odd bombs, but look like separate bombs within a single bomb load being dropped.
As they take up no physical space, you can mount them in the same location within the ac, several times over to simulate many 4lb-ers leaving the ac. Obviously when they land, they will only have one explosion for each load, but going down should look quite good.

Cheers

Shessi

[Blood_Hawk23]

Thank you Allen,

I've been reading through Martin Wrights wep pack. Seeing how he did the Multi rockets. I'm going to try it like that.

MW says 22, 0-21. Not sure if i have gone 0-23 before. I think i've see it that high like you said Allen. i believe DPed only goes to 21. That probably why MW said that.

I'll make a SBC model and the 4lb incendiary bombs. not sure how they will drop but I will soon find out. I know we cant do an actual cluster bomb. These weren't dropped from the plane anyway.

MW has a 25 multi-pod. so i'm going to try a 256 SBC. I'll probably freeze up my sim doing it. if it works then i'll add 2. till i get all 12. at that point the sim will more than likly die of a bomb overload. we will see.

now that i think about it if 24 is the limit i wont be able to add the Cookie. hummm.

well i'll figure it out if it works.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Shessi,
I think we are on the same page.

i'm going to try both setups. maybe do one for use for the Belhiems and other British planes. the SBC is just a box so it will only be like a plyon in the bomb bay.

the AI bomb setup will have to be done for the AI planes to drop them.

I wish I could make the bombs spin after they are dropped. oh well one thing at a time.

A little bit more research then I'll start working on them.

Oh Shessi, another project. LOL

[Allen]

It is 0 to 23. My bad. I just checked the G4M1 Betty I made that use a truck load of Japan 30kg-er

[Blood_Hawk23]

It is 0 to 23. My bad. I just checked the G4M1 Betty I made that use a truck load of Japan 30kg-er

I think I have all of the info on the bombs and a rough guess on the SBCs. I'm trying to think of how to do this. With only 24 mounts I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. I think I'll make one and just test it with the bomb load. Then if it works I go from there.

As far as the AI bomb approach I think that will work great for the 30lb bombs. Easy enough to model. Its the darn 4lbs bombs that are giving me pause. I wish I could do the animation of them breaking a part. It doesn't even have to be neat or completely scatter.

So I'll make the models and go from there I guess. If anyone else has an Idea, PLEASE post it.

Till Later,
John

[Blood_Hawk23]

Ok Plan A kinda works. well not realy but hey it was worth an attempt. I'm looking into the AI type bomb next. saddly it will look like clumps of matches droping from the plane. If I could make them scatter... Hummmm.

We can only use the same mount once correct?

Well back to work.

[kelticheart]

Hi BH,

you can have more than one weapon loaded to the same hardpoint. I used it several times, when the total carrying capabilty of a given aircraft exceeded CFS2 hardpoint limit.

You only have to increase the following number in the aircraft dp file:

mount.X=wep_us_500lb_gp, 3, -1

in this case, the aircraft will drop three 500lb bombs instead of just one. Naturally, you will have to increase also the total number of bombs allowed in the [GUNSTATIONS] section.

Unfortunately I can't tell you what's the limit to that total number of weapons per mount. I tested it up to 4, reaching a total of 92 bombs per 22-23 hardpoints. I did have troubles taking off with that weight.......

Cheers!
KH

[Blood_Hawk23]

Hey Kelti,

Now do 3 bombs drop or only 1?


What I tried first was to have the pod have the 236 ammo and leave the plane at 12. Well I only had 12 bombs. So that didn't work.

Then i tried to do this;

mount.1=wep_sbc_1000lb, 1, 0
mount.2=wep_4lb_mkiii_ib, 236, -1

but what i got was 1 bomb that I could drop 236 times. Which gave me about a mile long line of devastation. Which was kool and all, but my thumb hurt after dropping that many times.

Now I can do the AI type bomb.

I have made the group of 4 lbs bombs. Its in 3 groups that are 6 wide X 6 high. Now that only gives me 108. If I put more then that it will look like a colored brick falling from the sky. What I can have though is this;

mount.1=wep_sbc_1000lb, 1, 0
mount.2=wep_4lbmkiii_ai, 1, -1
mount.3=wep_sbc_1000lb, 1, 0
mount.4=wep_4lbmkiii_ai, 1, 2
mount.5=wep_sbc_1000lb, 1, 0
mount.6=wep_4lbmkiii_ai, 1, 4

and so on.

I've also thought that if I took three groups and modeled them as one, I could have all 12 SBCs modeled. Basically 4 groups of 3. Then I can still add in the cookie.

I do have one huge draw back. As of now I'm at 2100 polys. Now the inner bombs I can make square instead of the hexagons that they all are. From there I can do LODs.

Well I'm tired so I'm going to bed. I'll figure it out later. Again if you have anything please post it.

Thank You for the input. It is helping, A LOT.

Till Later,
John

[kelticheart]

Hey Kelti,

Now do 3 bombs drop or only 1?


What I tried first was to have the pod have the 236 ammo and leave the plane at 12. Well I only had 12 bombs. So that didn't work.

Then i tried to do this;

mount.1=wep_sbc_1000lb, 1, 0
mount.2=wep_4lb_mkiii_ib, 236, -1

but what i got was 1 bomb that I could drop 236 times. Which gave me about a mile long line of devastation. Which was kool and all, but my thumb hurt after dropping that many times. .......
Thank You for the input. It is helping, A LOT.

Till Later,
John

Hi John,

you're welcome, I'm glad I can help.

That's interesting. I remember at one time I wanted to have an anti-personnel bomb load, made with Dbolt's 125lb small GP's, and I only had 6 mounts left to saturate CFS2 dp limit.
So I did:

mount.18=wep_us_DB_125lb_gp, 4, -1
mount.19=wep_us_DB_125lb_gp, 4, 18
mount.20=wep_us_DB_125lb_gp, 4, 18
mount.21=wep_us_DB_125lb_gp, 4, 18
mount.22=wep_us_DB_125lb_gp, 4, 18
mount.23=wep_us_DB_125lb_gp, 4, 18

That's a salvo setup, with all bombs from mount.19 through 23 dropping together with mount.18. With the realism factor set to "limited ammo", all bombs dropped together at the first release. I squeezed the fire button on my joystick only once and off they went, towards their targets. Now I can't tell you if CFS2 showed me 24 actual bombs dropping, but, as in your case, the devastation path was larger and longer than it would have been if had dropped only 6 x 125lb.

It was a while ago, I don't remember if I had any more bombs left, but I don't think so because I fly with all realism settings on. Again, probably CFS2 does not show visually the multiple drop, but the final effect reflects the extra bombs dropped.

In your specific case, instead of having a single pod with 236 ammo in, I would try two pods with half as many ammo, set up as a salvo drop:

mount.2=wep_4lb_mkiii_ib, 118, -1
mount.3=wep_4lb_mkiii_ib, 118, 2

and see if CFS2 releases all 236 ammo in one drop. If it doesn't, try fractioning the payload further. Let me know how it goes, I am curious, too!

Cheers!
Stef

[Discus]

Hello everyone. It´s been a while since I last posted and more since I´ve fired up CFS2 in my desktop PC. But from time to time I enjoy a lot reading the posts.

I see development of this game beyond the limits of out of the box CFS2 is still alive and healthy.

For DP consulting (and many, many other specialties) go to Kaleb Flerk´s guides: http://www.cfgse.calebflerk.com/DP_File.htm

Another suggestion: may be a new effect for multiples explotions can be created and linked to a cluster bomb

Cheers, Discus

[Blood_Hawk23]

Kelti,

I'll test it out. I have to switch to limited ammo. maybe that will make a difference.

Hey Discus,

Thank You for the site link. I know I had it at one point in time. It seems that I lost that one somewhere along the road.

I wish I knew more about effects. That is one area I haven't gone. I've looked at them and thought about them but I have never messed with them. Currently the are 20 weapon types.

Weapon_type=1 (small bomb) - 30lb, 100lb, 250lb, 30kg, 60kg all uses the small FX.
Weapon_type=2 (medium bomb) - 500lb, 250kg uses the medium FX.
Weapon_type=3 (large bomb) - 1000lbm 2000lb, 800kg uses the large FX.
Weapon_type=4 (large bomb, same as above)
Weapon_type=5 (rocket)
Weapon_type=6 (rocket)
Weapon_type=7 (rocket)
Weapon_type=8 (timed rocket) - 8 seconds
Weapon_type=9 (torpedo) - MK13, seems to be for lighter torps.
Weapon_type=10 (torpedo) - Type91, seems to be for heavier torps.
Weapon_type=11 (???)
Weapon_type=12 (???)
Weapon_type=13 (???)
Weapon_type=14 (???)
Weapon_type=15 (Tank) - Jap 330litre, Jap 200litre, corsair/hellcat/lightning tanks, most picked.
Weapon_type=16 (Tank) - US 200 gallon.
Weapon_type=17 (Tank) - US 150 gallon.
Weapon_type=18 (???)
Weapon_type=19 (???)
Weapon_type=20 (Pylons, Pods, Parts) Used for rocket pods, various pylons and SID pilot.
Weapon_type=??? Not sure how far it goes.
==========================================
All weapons are....
unit_family=4
category=37


I'm using #2. we have all of these with (???). Maybe we can use one of them. something to think about.

Till Later,
John

[Blood_Hawk23]

I have some animated bombs. Only problem is they are animated all of the time. is there a way to trigger the animation?

I'm using the Tick18. Is there a way to asign it to a key command?

If i can get this then this will work fine.

[Allen]

I know of no way to animate a weapon other than Tick18 and it is always animated...

[Blood_Hawk23]

In my search for information I may have stunmbles on to something.

Hugh shockwaves and I mean HUGH. Like bigger then the atom bomb that used with the b-29s and tango's. Here is what I did.

I was trying to add more impacts. either by the object being destroyed or more bombs. Well that wouldn't work (I kind of knew it wouldn't) but what is did do was make the shockwave bigger. now i'm not sure exacttly how its doing it. It could be the extra damage or the fact its making a box 500 meter square. I'm not sure yet.

[GUNSTATIONS]
; Bomb0
gunstation.0=3,21,8,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1d1*1000,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,0,0,0,64
; Bomb1
gunstation.1=3,-1,8,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1d1*1000,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
; Bomb2
gunstation.2=3,-2,8,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1d1*1000,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0

[guns.0]
gun.0=1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0

[guns.1]
gun.0=1,0,0,-500,0,0,0,0

[guns.2]
gun.0=1,0,0,500,0,0,0,0

I'm still testing it. It seems interesting.

[Allen]

It dose make since. [GUNSTATIONS] is used to apply direct damage to the the object when a bomb hits it. Now dose each gun listed in the [GUNSTATIONS] make it own splash/shockwave effect?

[Blood_Hawk23]

It dose make since. [GUNSTATIONS] is used to apply direct damage to the the object when a bomb hits it. Now dose each gun listed in the [GUNSTATIONS] make it own splash/shockwave effect?

No only the one. That is what I was trying to do. You can also try this.

[guns.0]
gun.0=1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0

[guns.1]
gun.0=1,-500,0,-500,0,0,0,0

[guns.2]
gun.0=1,500,0,500,0,0,0,0

That will add left and right plus front and back.

I'm not sure if it adds to the size of the shockwave. It does however seem to add to the desity and it seem to last longer. Saddly there is still only one impact.

I'm still playing with it.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Allen,

Here is the whole DP. try it on any bomb. REMEMBER TO BACK IT UP. Unless you make a new one.

[BOXES]
box.0=%box_name.0%,-0.021,-0.021,-0.272,0.021,0.021,0.272
box.1=%box_name.1%,0.021,-0.021,-50.672,0.061,0.021,-50.272
box.2=%box_name.2%,-0.021,-0.021,50.272,0.021,0.021,50.672

[SYSTEMS]
system.0=%system_name.0%,2000,21
system.1=%system_name.1%,2000,-1
system.2=%system_name.2%,2000,-2

[BOXMAPS.0]
; Box = bomb_0
boxmap.0=100,21

[BOXMAPS.1]
; Box = bomb_1
boxmap.0=100,-1

[BOXMAPS.2]
; Box = bomb_2
boxmap.0=100,-2

[EFFECTS.0]
; System = Bomb0
effect.0=10,LIBRARY,fx_fuelleak_s,
effect.1=60,LIBRARY,fx_gastank_m,
effect.2=95,LIBRARY,fx_airexpl_l,
effect.3=99,LIBRARY,fx_napalm,
effect.4=100,BOMB,1,
effect.5=30,LIBRARY,fx_fuelleak_s,
effect.6=60,LIBRARY,fx_gastank_l,
effect.7=95,LIBRARY,fx_airexpl_s,
effect.8=99,LIBRARY,fx_napalm,
effect.9=100,BOMB,1,

[EFFECTS.1]
; System = Bomb1
effect.0=10,LIBRARY,fx_fuelleak_s,
effect.1=60,LIBRARY,fx_gastank_m,
effect.2=95,LIBRARY,fx_airexpl_l,
effect.3=99,LIBRARY,fx_napalm,
effect.4=100,BOMB,1,
effect.5=30,LIBRARY,fx_fuelleak_s,
effect.6=60,LIBRARY,fx_gastank_l,
effect.7=95,LIBRARY,fx_airexpl_s,
effect.8=99,LIBRARY,fx_napalm,
effect.9=100,BOMB,1,

[EFFECTS.2]
; System = Bomb2
effect.0=10,LIBRARY,fx_fuelleak_s,
effect.1=60,LIBRARY,fx_gastank_m,
effect.2=95,LIBRARY,fx_airexpl_l,
effect.3=99,LIBRARY,fx_napalm,
effect.4=100,BOMB,1,
effect.5=30,LIBRARY,fx_fuelleak_s,
effect.6=60,LIBRARY,fx_gastank_l,
effect.7=95,LIBRARY,fx_airexpl_s,
effect.8=99,LIBRARY,fx_napalm,
effect.9=100,BOMB,1,

[GUNSTATIONS]
; Bomb0
gunstation.0=3,21,8,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1d1*1000,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,0,0,0,64
; Bomb1
gunstation.1=3,-1,8,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1d1*1000,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
; Bomb2
gunstation.2=3,-2,8,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1d1*1000,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0

[guns.0]
gun.0=1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0

[guns.1]
gun.0=1,-500,0,-500,0,0,0,1
gun.1=1,-500,0,-500,0,0,0,1

[guns.2]
gun.0=1,50,0,500,0,0,0,1
gun.1=1,50,0,500,0,0,0,1

[MISC_DATA]
unit_family=4
category=37
max_weight=36
weapon_type=3

[STRINGS]
"box_name.0"=bomb_0
"box_name.1"=bomb_1
"box_name.2"=bomb_2
"system_name.0"=Bomb0
"system_name.1"=Bomb1
"system_name.2"=Bomb2

Play with it and see what you get.
Some things are redundent but I was just trying things out. You only need the one damage box.

[Allen]

I can confirm it make the stock splash/shockwave effect stronger. The effect is not too much better (or maybe no change at all) with a direct hit on the target. Hitting the ground next to the target make a massive splash/shockwave.

[Blood_Hawk23]

I can confirm it make the stock splash/shockwave effect stronger. The effect is not too much better (or maybe no change at all) with a direct hit on the target. Hitting the ground next to the target make a massive splash/shockwave.

I wonder if only one records the hit on target. That could explain that. also we are only talking about 1000 points of damage. up it to that of a 2000lb bomb and it would be bigger, I think. I wonder what would happen in a group of targets.

you know we could simulate the the effect of cluster munitions by having small damagable boxes in and around the targets. if the extra gunstations can effect these small targets it would look like a cluster bomb droped.

something to think about.

[Allen]

I think found how to fix so that even direct hits have massive splash damage. I think CFS2 only uses gunstation.0 to do damage. So if you add more guns to [guns.0] massive splash damage will be used with direct hits.

[guns.0]
gun.0=1,0,0,0,0,0,1
gun.1=1,-500,0,-500,0,0,0,1
gun.2=1,-500,0,-500,0,0,0,1
gun.3=1,50,0,500,0,0,0,1
gun.4=1,50,0,500,0,0,0,1

[Blood_Hawk23]

I think found how to fix so that even direct hits have massive splash damage. I think CFS2 only uses gunstation.0 to do damage. So if you add more guns to [guns.0] massive splash damage will be used with direct hits.

[guns.0]
gun.0=1,0,0,0,0,0,1
gun.1=1,-500,0,-500,0,0,0,1
gun.2=1,-500,0,-500,0,0,0,1
gun.3=1,50,0,500,0,0,0,1
gun.4=1,50,0,500,0,0,0,1

I'll have to try that. I'm trying to get screen shot but even at the slowest setting i keep missing. I cant get the whole ring.

[Sarg Willy]

Interesting idea,s , I assume your testing from player aircraft , Are you getting damaged ground objects for the total distance 1000 ft ?

[Blood_Hawk23]

Interesting idea,s , I assume your testing from player aircraft , Are you getting damaged ground objects for the total distance 1000 ft ?

I haven't done much more with it. Where its not going to work the way I wanted, I kind of put it on the shelf for now.

It is an interesting idea and may work to better simulate the bomb effects. Especially the larger HE type. Could use it to replace the stock 2000lb bombs. Even if you only when a few meters it will give a more defined shockwave. Other then that it won't add extra bomb effects.

If you discover any more let us know.