Attention all DC-3 fans !

**Alan_A** · February 28th, 2015, 10:06

Here's another late vote for #1, but... a luxury request... although the instrument lights on #2 make it a bit cluttered to my eye, I like the idea of two alternative texture sets, one with light use and one with heavier wear that'd fit with some of the "beater" repaints.

An analogy - over on the A2A forums, member "warbirds" posted an alternative, heavy-use set of VC textures for the B-17. Here's the thread. I've taken to using the original textures for modern aircraft like Sentimental Journey and Fuddy Duddy, and the worn ones for some of the high-mileage repaints like Jankees' Outhouse Mouse, Ol' Gappy and A Bit o' Lace.

It'd be nice to be able to mix and match between, say, the HD American Airlines DC-3 repaint and 102DH or some of the CBI C-47s.

Obvious but important point: I can't speak for the amount of time it would take to do alternative texturing, and there's more than enough effort going into this already without my coming along to add to it. So I'll be more than grateful for whatever eventually comes out, and for all the contributions that make up this wonderful project.

Standing by, as before...

**Ian Warren** · February 28th, 2015, 11:20

I think its that little extra detail shown in panel two that gives it a kick after looking at the photos again

, maybe after completion have the option for the other panel just as a template?

***srgalahad*** · February 28th, 2015, 13:22

There's not a lot of historical information about the development of aircraft panel lighting, but as best I can work out, the chronology goes thus:

1. Matches (smelly, fire hazard, hard to light in windy/leaky cockpits)

2. Flashlights (needs a spare hand and spare batteries)

3. Floodlights (red, white, UV alone or in combination) - UV requires instruments to be painted with phosphorescent paint (Radium usually, which became a 'strategic resource')

4. Eyebrow lighting (with development of newer, smaller bulbs - less glare and can't be blocked by pilot's head -later developed with fluorescent lights -there are various shapes over time and some modern ones are for sale) Floods were retained for pre-flight, illuminating overall areas and as backup. The military led development though the period and they seemed to want to do away with lights that would cast a glow in the whole cockpit, cause reflections or be seen from outside - for obvious reasons. Technology eventually spilled over to the civilian side.

5. Back/edge/perimeter incandescent/fluorescent lighting (initially poor brightness and uneven light with early technology)

6. Post lighting (1950/60's prone to 'spots'/glare and breakage or snagging)
7. Electro-luminescent and fluorescent (new tech) edge/back/dial lighting (1970's?)
8. LED edge lights and electro-luminescent instrument faces (new)

As this is a FS model, it depends largely on how much time/effort the modeler wants to spend building the lightmaps for individual gauges as opposed to more general lighting.

Since I get to express a preference - #2
While I appreciate our freedom of choice, I'll bet the pilots who got to drive a DC-3 didn't often get their choice but flew what the boss gave them. I will say that I've found a flashlight makes a lot of glare on my monitor.

**Ian Warren** · February 28th, 2015, 14:14

Originally Posted by srgalahad

While I appreciate our freedom of choice, I'll bet the pilots who got to drive a DC-3 didn't often get their choice but flew what the boss gave them. I will say that I've found a flashlight makes a lot of glare on my monitor.

I like that, I could seriously imagine using a torch/flashlight in the ole cockpit to pan around instruments

**Alky** · February 28th, 2015, 17:37

I was thinking while having a shower, since I can't sing, I think, anyway, wouldn't it be possible to have both as an option in the VC package? Whatever texture that part of the panel is on, make an option folder and put them both in it.

EDIT: oops, I didn't read Alan's post before I wrote mine!

**Javis** · February 28th, 2015, 19:24

@ Alan & Alky: these 'eyebrow' light boxes are not just textures, guys. Maybe not easy to notice from a piccie but they are 3D models just like everything else, even bolts- and screwheads and rivets ( well, not all... ;-)

Maybe you get a better idea with this :

They are all grouped together so it's just one click to export the whole lot with a model or leave 'em out. Easy peasy. Their function is a different kettle of fish of course, like described in srgalahad's summary ( thanks for that, Sir !

)

As for A2A's B-17, that's about at the top of my fav FSX aircraft list. Got the weathered texture set right after it was released. Very nice indeed ! I also love the UV lighting they have set up and will certainly try that for our VVC as well. ( on the captains side you can see a typical UV lamp already present. The switch box on top of the throttle quadrant is also ment to activate UV lighting.

Currently the cockpit already looks pretty cosy with the ambient lighting 'straight out of the box', courtesy of Manfred's modern DC-3 VC :

I'll add a box of matches just to be sure. ;-)

cheers,
jan

**TuFun** · February 28th, 2015, 19:29

Super shot of that cockpit there Jan!!!!

**CG_1976** · February 28th, 2015, 19:31

Well from Experiance with the DC3 and Arctic. Always carry a Zippo Lighter using Zippo fluid, Wind proof and resistance, and works like a treat in the High Arctic

. Carry match's in the High Arctic can be useful, but a Zippo is king.

**Javis** · February 28th, 2015, 19:48

Right! I'll add a Zippo too.

**Javis** · February 28th, 2015, 19:50

Originally Posted by TuFun

Super shot of that cockpit there Jan!!!!

Thanks, Ted! Me likes your new avatar. Can you tell ?..

**Alky** · February 28th, 2015, 20:13

Originally Posted by Javis

Right! I'll add a Zippo too.

A pack of Lucky Strike would need to go with that Zippo. Wasn't that standard issue in WWII??

**TuFun** · February 28th, 2015, 20:23

Originally Posted by Javis

Thanks, Ted! Me likes your new avatar. Can you tell ?..

That's a 1/2 scale Austin-Healey 3000. Always loved these big Healey's!

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...he-big-healey/

**CG_1976** · February 28th, 2015, 20:49

Originally Posted by Alky

A pack of Lucky Strike would need to go with that Zippo. Wasn't that standard issue in WWII??

Make it the Straight variety

no filter. Other known brands as I remember from Old time Bushy's are Pall-Mall and Winston's, Camel's. All said Straights no Filter. One can learn a lot from the Old Bushy's at the Bush Pilots Memorial in Yellowknife along with Wild Cats.

**Alan_A** · February 28th, 2015, 21:16

@Javis - no, I understood that the eyebrows were 3D objects. Sorry, my message wasn't clear. I was thinking that a clean/no eyebrows and a worn/no eyebrows version would do the trick and would be easier for you to manage. But it sounds from your reply as though eyebrows on/off is a matter of one click. If so, and if that's in fact easier, then that'd be an equally good (or better) way of providing different wear options - and with lighting variations, too. I'd be fine with that. Actually I'd be fine with anything you've shown so far - the current lighting looks good, too. Really glad to see all this coming together.

**windquest** · March 1st, 2015, 03:50

You really have to look hard but I like #2 but the panel is so wonderful either way, for me its a toss up. Super job, can't wait to install it and fly the HUMP.

Henry

**dougal** · March 1st, 2015, 04:33

Either one, but pleeeeeeeeeaze............ just GIVE TO ME;-) NOW

**txnetcop** · March 1st, 2015, 04:48

Originally Posted by Alan_A

@Javis - no, I understood that the eyebrows were 3D objects. Sorry, my message wasn't clear. I was thinking that a clean/no eyebrows and a worn/no eyebrows version would do the trick and would be easier for you to manage. But it sounds from your reply as though eyebrows on/off is a matter of one click. If so, and if that's in fact easier, then that'd be an equally good (or better) way of providing different wear options - and with lighting variations, too. I'd be fine with that. Actually I'd be fine with anything you've shown so far - the current lighting looks good, too. Really glad to see all this coming together.

Like Alan I was trying to make it easy on you...the eyebrows are more impressive! You decide Jan...last time I was in the army no choices were offered unless the lesser choice was pure hell...like burning the **** detail in the bush (ya had to be there). Ickie knows! I would love the 2nd option!

**CanadaKen** · March 1st, 2015, 07:32

Originally Posted by Javis

And congrats with your 2CV ! ( don't wanna upset you but if it purrs like a kitten there's something wrong, mate

Hahahahahaha!!!

Late choice but #2 by a very slight margin.

CK

**Ian Warren** · March 1st, 2015, 10:22

Frankly, i do prefer the eyebrows .. that added little extra detail, the gauges eyebrows do extrude from the panel and they also look exactly the same but for a little cockpit dust and wear and tear .. really just adds to the real feel ...... by the way , me names not Frank

**Ian Warren** · March 1st, 2015, 11:09

This is exactly what Jan has portrait'd .. this is with a 'lot of light to get the detail' .. and dang , done a super fantastic build .. EYEBROWS for me

**windquest** · March 1st, 2015, 13:47

The real answer is which one is faster!!!! Mouth watering now and hitting the refresh key a lot. With the base airplane and this cockpit, my MAAM DC-3's are about to go to the bone-yard. I don't suppose you would be able to suggest a time frame....hint hint, wink wink.

Henry

**NAVY DOC** · March 1st, 2015, 14:07

Jan,

Personally 'eye' like the brows. But whichever you decide will be impeccable I'm sure. But I see a brow/no brow panel option in the future. So everyone will have the option of their choice. The entire cockpit is looking brilliant!

Anxiously awaiting finished product.

Stu

***manfredc3*** · March 1st, 2015, 16:27

Guess everyone has their own taste.

I root for #1, but would like the option to select the "eye brow" version where suitable.

**Bjoern** · March 1st, 2015, 16:49

A bit of XML magic for Jan:

Code:

PartInfo>
Name>Gauge_Eyebrows/Name>     
 Visibility>
        Parameter>
            Code>
            (A:TITLE, string) 'EYEBR' sstr 0 >
            /Code>
        /Parameter>
    /Visibility>
/PartInfo>

(Note: Tags had to be mutilated to avoid rendering issues with the board software. Anyone who has seen XML code before can easily fill them in though.)

Tag the eyebrow models with this in 3ds Max and they will appear whenever a repaint's title= line contains "EYEBR". No need for multiple cockpit models and you can call it ad lib from a repaint.