Swingman's GRUMMAN DUCK is the real thing

[Canelo]

SOH Open Letter to the Community

Wire Frame Images comparing the two Duck's











Compare and decide for yourself!

COPY of the Complaint to Craig from Icarusgold forwarded to SOH

Dear Craig,

A Servage system administrator has made the following note to your account:

------- Note -------

admin note: we received this message. Please comply with our terms of service!

Remove the mentioned content immediately!

--- MESSAGE -------------------------

I am
Giuseppe roberto, via martignano 6 roma italy tel. O39 068312648


I am authorized by icarusgold.com and i am writing you because someone
has uploaded a copyrighted software by icarusgold.com company called

ICARUSGOLD GRUMMAN DUCK


Here the place on our website that identify it is our property and
on sale by our company

http://www.icarusgold.com/Shop/product_info.php?products_id=37


I state that i have a good faith belief that use of the material in
the manner complained of is not authorized by icarusgold.com copyright
owner, its agents, or the law.

State that the information in the notification is accurate, and under
penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on
behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed


here our copyrighted product pirate link in one of your hosted website

77-232-66-209.static.servage.net

http://www.classicwings.net/hanger/hanger.html

as you can see there isn\'t any traces of a grumman duck but they have
link to pirating our product

Those are the pirated links of our product.(all three models)

http://www.classicwings.net/freeplanes/grumman_duck/Grumman_J2F4_Duck.zi
p
http://www.classicwings.net/freeplanes/grumman_duck/Grumman_J2F5_Duck.zi
p
http://www.classicwings.net/freeplanes/grumman_duck/Grumman_J2F6_Duck.zi
p

someone uploaded without permission and cracking our produtct and
uploaded at this link using your service I am asking you to remove
immediately our copyrighted work and cancel the account ownier and revel
us identity of the person to prosecute legally him.

Another email has been sent to FBI antipiracy office to identify who
uploaded the file and to prosecute them. I am sure you will take
appropriate action to remove this file and I thank you all for the
attention. Hope you will remove those files before enforced to take a
legal action and we will.

Those same files were uploaded on few website for few hours but they
were all removed instantly after our remarks.

Classic wings include people are also members of sim-outhouse.com place
pirate\'s house.they try continuosly to upload our last product but they
were always discovered as today with this another try using another
website

You can read the full stories on our forum
http://www.icarusgold.com/FS/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=10
<http://www.icarusgold.com/FS/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=10&thread_id
=83> &thread_id=83

http://www.icarusgold.com/FS/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=10
<http://www.icarusgold.com/FS/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=10&thread_id
=80> &thread_id=80

Best Regards
Giuseppe Roberto
Lawyer and legal rapresentant Icarusgold.com

------- Note -------

If you have questions or concerns kindly submit a support ticket via the control panel and we will get back to you as soon as possible. This can be done via the "Support & Notifications" link in control panel.


Best regards,
Your servage Team, http://www.servage.net

This is an automated email. For questions or concerns kindly
open a support ticket via the control panel: http://cp.servage.net/

Over the next few days SOH will re-release Swingman's Duck and FSX updates for the Duck and some additional add-ons for the Duck.

[TARPSBird]

Same old, same old from last year's flap about this. The Icarus guy doesn't have a leg to stand on, they're obviously two different planes. CK, what program did you use to get the wireframe comparisons?

[Dangerousdave26]

My guess is it was ModelConverterX

http://www.scenerydesign.org/development-releases/

[norab]

"that guy is so unreasonable. He, to qoute Jack Nicholson "can't handle the truth!" Just about every aircraft in his catalog has been done by other designers first, Should Hago complain that Icarus Gold stole his Tony, or Thicko that Icarus took his Gladiator? off course not, they booth prdated his work, it's parallel development. He should realize how many people he is alienating by behaving the way he is," ©
2012 by Jeff Lewis, also known as norab. the use of this quote in total or any part there of, at any site other than SOH combat flight center is expressly forbidden and will be subject to prosecution to the fullest extent of US and international law

Chew on that Icarus

[johnh_049]

Actually, Paul Clawson came out with a Duck before the Icarus, so maybe they pirated it from him?

they sure know how to drag out and beat a dead horse, don't they?
:isadizzy:

[Tako_Kichi]

CK, what program did you use to get the wireframe comparisons?

As Dave says it was ModelConverterX. I made those graphics so that we could confirm without a shadow of a doubt that the two models were not connected in any way. I even took the images into a photo-editing app and superimposed one on top of the other and I could not find a single polygon that matched exactly anywhere on the aircraft.

The two models were obviously developed separately and independently of each other and in my humble opinion* the claims made by Icarus are false and without any basis other than the fact that he's jealous and is scared of losing sales of his inferior payware product to the vastly superior freeware model.

* I am simply stating my personal opinion above and any comments should not be taken as being representative of SOH, it's Management or Staff. I live in a free country and I am entitled to express my personal opinions however I see fit.

[Paul Domingue]

As they say, "The Proof is in the Pudding".

[Canelo]

This issue has been a complete waste of time, involving half our Senior staff, myself, Swingman, Full and a many others. I also involved my brother in law's law firm and his investigators. Now to pay my brother in law back I have to go to Tucson and cut down a dead tree in his yard.

After much discussion between me and my brother in law no legal actions will be taken against Icarusgold unless he continues his false statements and false correspondence. We both agreed it wouldn't be worth the expense or time to pursue civil damages or criminal liabilities.

As far as SOH is concerned the matter is resolved and should be left to die.

The staff at SOH has and will continue to refrain from making any unfounded comments about Icarusgold and will not play Icarus's war of words game in the Flight Simulator Community Forums.

I personally believe Icarusgold owes Swingman an open apology but seriously doubt he will!

[pfflyers]

I thought we'd put this to bed a while ago.

Now I don't know anything about creating an FS model (except what I've learned looking over Milton Shupes' shoulder), but it seems to me that most modelers could probably recognize their work if it was being used by someone else. I don't see how the original creator of the Icarus Duck can sincerely claim that Swingman's Duck is his model.

The writer of the "complaint" identifies himself as a authorized spokesman for Icarus, rather than as the wronged modeler. Where is the original modeler? Has anyone heard anything directly from him?

Not only does Icarus try to suppress distribution of Swingman's Duck, but they engage in libel towards Swingman and SOH.

[fxsttcb]

I even took the images into a photo-editing app and superimposed one on top of the other and I could not find a single polygon that matched exactly anywhere on the aircraft.

I did the same and posted a couple sections "overlayed" at flightsim. Hopefully this is last we will hear of this.
Thanks to all involved in clearing the air...Don
http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showth...s-Grumman-Duck

[HorusJ]

Those wire-frame shots are pretty cool,like comparing DNA.

[billythe]

no personal attacks but i suggest you to remove personal details of the ownier...i don't think he will be happy to see his privacy violated...all the rest is a boring situation.

[Tako_Kichi]

i don't think he will be happy to see his privacy violated

The details are 'as provided' in the email sent to Full's ISP and for the record the phone number is disconnected (yes we called it) and the address is for a bicycle shop in Rome (yes we verified it).

[Dangerousdave26]

no personal attacks but i suggest you to remove personal details of the ownier...i don't think he will be happy to see his privacy violated...all the rest is a boring situation.

The only personal information listed is of the lawyer who sent the letter to Craig. Since emails are public record and can never be considered as private then it is fair game.

Also it becomes free advertising for this particular lawyer. Feel free to call the number and ask legal advise.

The owner himself is not identified nor do any of us know who he is.

[PRB]

..all the rest is a boring situation.

I suppose it's boring if you're not the one being accused of piracy. It's not boring to us...

[Canelo]

I just want people to know SOH did not create this issue.

We have spent several weeks, endless hours investigating this issue. We used more than one source to verify the email's content sent to Craig. We have gotten legal advise and toiled with carefully presenting this case. Our staff was even split on making a public announcement but it had to be made.

Our announcement was made so people can decide for themselves and believe what they want. We also are trying to undo damages done to Classic Wings, unfortunately their ISP made them remove the files.

For SOH this is a big thing and we all just want to handle it right, personally I commend the staff for all the time an effort they put into making a wrong right.

FYI: I was already going to cut the tree down for my brother in law, but when I asked him if I owed him anything, his reply was to cut down the dead tree!..........really he did it 'Pro Bono'.

[josepicos]

Those bastards(excuse my language), but I hate that people come and claim us as pirating their stuff(which isn't even as good as Swingmans's beautiful DUCK).............and claiming to be lawyers can end them in some pretty long prison time for impersonating......

[fallenphoenix1986]

You'd think he'd have given up as soon as the side by side screenshots were shown, he never had a bloody leg to stand on

Craig

[Roger]

On a side note I now find I cannot access Icarus site: probably because I am SOH staff and therefore cannot access my purchases if I require a redownload. This is unaccepable practice for a web based business.

[Dangerousdave26]

You'd think he'd have given up as soon as the side by side screenshots were shown, he never had a bloody leg to stand on

Craig

He will never give up

Don't expect it. All he can see is there is a duck out there that is costing him sales. This issue has become his life look at his site he has more news on it about us than any model he has ever done.

Without us his website would be dead.

[Dangerousdave26]

Roger

You can not go to his site from links that originate from us.

He blocked any links that originate from SOH.

To go to his site just manually enter the url in your browser.

[Roger]

Roger

You can not go to his site from links that originate from us.

He blocked any links that originate from SOH.

To go to his site just manually enter the url in your browser.

Nope I'm not welcome. I have a folder full of various website shortcuts I like to visit which I tried and also copy and paste to a blank Ie9 page.

[Tako_Kichi]

Nope I'm not welcome. I have a folder full of various website shortcuts I like to visit which I tried and also copy and paste to a blank Ie9 page.

He could be blocking your ISP Roger. I can get in straight away when I manually type in his web address.

[N2056]

I note on his latest rant on his site that he is upset over the "private information" posted here. Oddly it was okay for HIM to do that sort of thing routinely for anyone he "found" committing piracy on his site many times?
Hows THAT for a fact?

[robert41]

It is pretty clear, that Swingman's Duck is not Icarus's Duck.
Proof has been given here at SOH. Nothing from Icarus.
It is time to put up, or shut up!
Unfortunate for Craig at Classic Wings also. Hopefully things can be righted.