Bomb Effects and Strengths

[pstrany]

Hi;

many years ago, there were charts made of the effective hitting power and other parameters for machine guns and cannon for CFS2. Was anything similar ever done for bombs? Of course different sizes of bombs would have different effects, as well as different types having different impact on their targets.

I need to be able to represent a range of weapons, each with different characteristic, and it would help to have a starting point for this.........


Paul

[Talon]

Pen32Win did a bomb effects package.Not sure where it is though.

[sc7500]

Dug this out of an old Utilities file today - it's a start:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One thing to remember when working with bombs in CFS2;
CFS2 creates bomb damage in two very different ways.

1. If the bomb strikes the targets DP Boxes the hit point number in the Bombs DP is applied to the target.

In case 1 the damage value in the bombs DP Gunstation section is used.
A 1000lb bomb looks like this:

([GUNSTATIONS]
gunstation.0=3,21,8,0.00,0,0,0,0,0,0,1d1*10000,0,0 ,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,16000

It delivers 10000 Hit Points to the directly to the DP of the object it hits. Pretty simple and straight forward so far. If the bomb/rocket makes a direct hit, it acts just like a bullet as far as the target DP is concerned.

2. If the bomb strikes the ground next to the target, CFS2 uses 3 different FX's depending on the weapon_type in the bombs DP.

This is where things get messy.

First off, there are 4 different “weapon_type”s that cover all of the different bombs.

Type 1 is the lightest, like the 30 & 60kg and 250Lb’ers.

Type 2 covers the 250kg and 500lb bombs.

Type 3 is for the 1000lb bomb and Type 4 is used by the 800kg and 2000lb bombs.

Now that that’s clear, let’s make mud.

When a bomb strikes the ground in CFS2 the program selects one of 3, yes 3 and not 4 FX to trigger. You’d think there would be 4 FX since there are 4 different weapons types, right?

Nope. Here’s how things work out.

The 3 Effects are the fx_gndexpl_s, m & l:
Type 1 bombs use the “s” FX:
Type 2 uses the “m” FX:
and Types 3 & 4 both use the “l” FX.

And that is how CFS2 Damages ground objects with Bombs!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hope this helps - I'll keep looking
SC

[pstrany]

Thank you for that. I'm dealing with German SC, SD and AB weapons types, and trying to figure out how best to represent each in their respective DP files. I was hoping to avoid doing a "cut-n-paste" from default CFS2 weapons, but I guess I need a better understanding of the real-world differences in order to be able to translate that (if even possible) to the world of CFS2.

Paul

[sc7500]

I got into some deeper archives - This may be repeating info you already know, but it bears repeating for our newer members to file away...:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Doing DP weapon work and trying to figure out the numbers. I searched around for a listing but could not find it. I thought it would be good to have a list/guide for easy checks and weapon functions.

I thank Pen32 and Talos2005 for some of the info. I did research also.

Basically no matter what you want to call your weapon or what ever you make it look like it will always do/follow what the number represents.

Lets try to add on to the list. Addition/Removal of data and corrections welcome! Stay on topic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Weapon_type=1 (small bomb) - 30lb, 100lb, 250lb, 30kg, 60kg all uses the small FX.

Weapon_type=2 (medium bomb) - 500lb, 250kg uses the medium FX.

Weapon_type=3 (large bomb) - 1000lbm 2000lb, 800kg uses the large FX.

Weapon_type=4 (large bomb, same as above)

Weapon_type=5 (rocket)

Weapon_type=6 (rocket)

Weapon_type=7 (rocket)

Weapon_type=8 (timed rocket) - 8 seconds

Weapon_type=9 (torpedo) - MK13, seems to be for lighter torps.

Weapon_type=10 (torpedo) - Type91, seems to be for heavier torps.

Weapon_type=11 (???)

Weapon_type=12 (???)

Weapon_type=13 (???)

Weapon_type=14 (???)

Weapon_type=15 (Tank) - Jap 330litre, Jap 200litre, corsair/hellcat/lightning tanks, most picked.

Weapon_type=16 (Tank) - US 200 gallon.

Weapon_type=17 (Tank) - US 150 gallon.

Weapon_type=18 (???)

Weapon_type=19 (???)

Weapon_type=20 (Pylons, Pods, Parts) Used for rocket pods, various pylons and SID pilot.

Weapon_type=??? Not sure how far it goes.
==========================================
All weapons are....
unit_family=4
category=37

They also use...
max_weight=
========================================

All you need to do is alter the weight in the .dp (OBJECTS_DP)

Example: wep_us_2000lb_gp.dp (stock CFS2 item)

[BOXES]
box.0=%box_name.0%,-1.26,-0.08,-2.74,1.26,5.76,2.74

[SYSTEMS]
system.0=%system_name.0%,2000,21

[BOXMAPS.0]
; Box = bomb_0
boxmap.0=100,21

[EFFECTS.0]
; System = bomb
effect.0=10,LIBRARY,fx_fuelleak_s,
effect.1=30,LIBRARY,fx_oilleak_m,
effect.2=50,LIBRARY,fx_fuelleak_m,
effect.3=95,LIBRARY,fx_airexpl_l,
effect.4=100,BOMB,,

[GUNSTATIONS]
gunstation.0=3,21,8,0.00,0,0,0,0,0,0,1d1*20000,0,0 ,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,32000

[guns.0]
gun.0=1,0,0,0,0,0,0

[MISC_DATA]
unit_family=4
category=37
max_weight=909 (this appears to be in Kg.) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
weapon_type=4

[STRINGS]
"box_name.0"=bomb_0
"system_name.0"=Bomb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changing the weight to "9" would allow you to sling a pair of these 2000lb monsters onto the O-1F Birddog (Cessna) & take off with no trouble at all.

The plane will perform as though it had a 9KG bomb under each wing.

Found this out when I slung a torpedo under a Zero just for fun. (flight performance suffered badly until the torp. weight was changed)

================================

...all of the system parts with the higher numbers are the ones to focus on. Anything with mid to high five figures is sure to profoundly harden a target and delay its destruction. By reducing these higher values by 75% or whatever you think is appropriate, you will essentially achieve the same effect as pre-damaging in MB, but without having to contend with MB's temperament. Plus, as i said before, the item's strength is permanently reduced for any application in new missions or as substitutions in existing missions.

Another correlating factor that plays into this is the damage dice of your weapons used against the target. Every bomb, torpedo and rocket dp has a damage dice imbedded into its gunstation that determines how many hitpoints it will deliver against the lifepoints of the individual systems in a target. For example, this highlighted red portion is the standard dice for all of my 1000lb bombs, regardless of the sources:

[GUNSTATIONS]
gunstation.0=3,21,8,0.00,0,0,0,0,0,0,>>> 7d7*40000 <<<,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,42000

The MS stock standard for this sized weapon is:

[GUNSTATIONS]
gunstation.0=3,21,8,0.00,0,0,0,0,0,0,>>> 1d1*10000 <<<,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,16000

First, 10000 hitpoints is not my idea of a 1000lb high explosive weapon in CFS2. Secondly, the parameter of 7d7* builds a random effectiveness factor into the detonation, as opposed to the straightforward predictability of using 1d1* parameter. A 1d1* setup will always detonate with the same range, magnitude and collateral effect. A 7d7* setup will surprise you with random results; one hard target will take two direct hits to destroy and another just one; a set of "hard" hangars will take collateral damage from a near miss and burn in one case, while another similar near miss does nothing but produce smoke and dust....i like that idea.
--------------------------------------------------------

....Did you do a similar change for the 500 lb and smaller weapons to include rockets?...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep....none of my weapon dices are stock. Even my add-on weaps are changed likewise. And in making these types of mods, i pretty much used the 7d7* param in all weaps no matter the type in order to keep the randomness factor involved. But the numerical hit points i did vary depending on the size and type. I won't bother to post any more examples on other types here because i think any reader can now understand the relational methodology and make these mods according to their own preferences. Its your thing, do whatcha wanna do...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Interesting....
SC

[demorier]

I use quite a bit of these numbers from the Avhistory 1% people. It's been around for quite a while, but I think the numbers are more realistic. For various bomb numbers and damage dice, I think Bearcat would probably have this worked out best these days....I followed most of his numbering setups.

[bearcat241]

Not much i could add here beyond what's been posted already, except to say that the SC and SD bombs would basically have the same damage parameters in CFS2. The difference between them is that the SC's are general purpose and the SD's are semi-armor piercing, that's all. In CFS2 this distinction doesn't count for anything as it would in reality.

As for the AB cluster weapons, bombs in the cluster can be set with same dice as a single bomb in the range of 30 lbs to 100 lbs for best realism. You just have to set up the dp payloads to get multiple ripples from one drop. The examples below would give you fifteen 30 to 100 lbs dropping simultaneously, along with their casings:


[PAYLOAD.6]
; Payload = Cluster Bomb
mount.0=vw_etc504, 1, 0
mount.2=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.3=vw_ab500, 1, -1
mount.4=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.5=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.6=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.7=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.8=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.9=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.10=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.11=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.12=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.13=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.14=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.15=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.16=vw_ab500, 1, 3
mount.1=vw_ab500_casing, 1, 3

[PAYLOAD.7]
; Payload = Cluster Bomb
mount.0=vw_etc504, 1, 0
mount.2=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.3=vw_ab250, 1, -1
mount.4=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.5=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.6=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.7=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.8=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.9=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.10=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.11=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.12=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.13=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.14=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.15=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.16=vw_ab250, 1, 3
mount.1=vw_ab250_casing, 1, 3

[pstrany]

Hmmm, that last little bit looked a bit familiar.

Thank you all for the excellent information. At the risk of pushing it too far, I have another problem. Is there a way to fire a rocket at an angle? I have two rockets, one firing forward that doesn't line up with the gunsight, and another rocket that fires backwards, and, well, that just doesn't seem to want to happen. I seem to recall that this issue has been touched on before, but figured I'd ask just in case someone worked it out along the way.....

Thanks!!

Paul

[bearcat241]

Hmmm, that last little bit looked a bit familiar.

Paul, i thought you might say that , after all the VW Dora line is your creation. So i was a bit puzzled by your second post, since you had a hand in creating the DP's, along with the SC, SD and AB weapons used in the line.

WRT the missiles, sounds like some SNAFU in the DP's gunstations parameters may be the cause of the backwards firing problem. If you post that gunstations section here, we may be able to find the source of the problem in it.

As for the missiles not lining on the pipper, i wouldn't worry about that much. This is common to unguided HVAR missiles, even in reality, because you're dealing with totally different projectile ballistics between missiles and bullets. The lower velocity and heavier weight factors of missiles render the gunsight almost useless for accurate targeting. You just use the sight to get a rough aim point and then use the pitch control of the aircraft to 'toss' the missile as close to that spot as possible. I liken it to more like "feeling" where the missile's trajectory will land it rather than aiming it like a straight shooting bullet.

If your gunsight is properly calibrated to the guns themselves, that's really the main concern. Once you start fiddling with the bore-sighting to accommodate the missiles, you risk throwing off the aim of the guns, and that's a much more undesirable predicament. And again, the gunstations section will give us more insight...

[pstrany]

The problem is I WANT the rocket to fire backwards, but can't figure out how to do it.

As to the aiming, the missile I am working on was installed to fire at an upwards angle of (depending on the source) 7-15 degrees. This would give it a trajectory that would allow the pilot to use the gunsight to at least ballpark it. I've played with just about every parameter in the rockets' DP file to no avail, and so I think I am stuck with the current flight model.

There are so many little details, and they are so easily forgotten. Heck, I was fortunate that I'd made myself a "cheat sheet" for making weapons. I wouldn't even know where to look anymore for instructions on doing all this stuff.

Thanks for the help, and the refresher!


Paul

[oldwheat]

The problem is I WANT the rocket to fire backwards, but can't figure out how to do it.

As to the aiming, the missile I am working on was installed to fire at an upwards angle of (depending on the source) 7-15 degrees. This would give it a trajectory that would allow the pilot to use the gunsight to at least ballpark it. I've played with just about every parameter in the rockets' DP file to no avail, and so I think I am stuck with the current flight model.

There are so many little details, and they are so easily forgotten. Heck, I was fortunate that I'd made myself a "cheat sheet" for making weapons. I wouldn't even know where to look anymore for instructions on doing all this stuff.

Thanks for the help, and the refresher!


Paul

I can see a number of uses for such an effect ( HellFire-type missile, etc). Of course I am still looking for a workable tweak for enabling smoke marker rockets.

[pstrany]

One additional question. Is there a way to "create" a firebomb or napalm bomb?

Thanks to all for your responses. I've copied this to a DOC file so when I forget all this all over again, I will have a quick reference to refresh myself.....

Paul