Why Not Multiplayer?

[falcon409]

. . . . . . .SOH has a multiplayer server that all are welcome on. The sad part is that it's not getting much use.

Yep, something I made mention of in my opening post. Part of the reason, I think, is that other than the "Round the World" event, there's nothing to draw pilots over there to participate. The Hoplists stay up for months on end, way beyond their normal shelf-life and a couple have been up for almost a year now. Sadly, I think the server suffers from the same malady that some of the other sub-forums suffer from. . . .no one uses them because there's never anyone there to read their posts. If no one posted in the main FS9/FSX Forums about the "Round the World Race" event, do you think anyone at all would participate? I doubt it, because you have only to look at the frequency and number of post on the Server Forums to see that other than your group, Willy, it's rare that anyone posts anything except when I find a glitch in a hoplist.

This whole thread, whether anyone realizes it or not is about the SOH Flight Server. I can guarantee that when it was first publicized that SOH was going to have it's own MP Server, the overall consensus was. . ."Hooray". . . ."It's about time". . . ."Can't wait til it's up and running". . . . ."Great to finally have our own Server", yada, yada, yada. . . .and then it died about a month after it started. That's how long it took for the "newness" to wear off and everyone went back to business as usual and what I refer to as the "Few and far between" (the scant few of us that actually use it) took over and settled in.

You're right Willy. . .it is sad, that with the huge overall numbers that is the SOH Community, it comes down to a handful that actually use the server.

[falcon409]

Imho that's one of the key points for "multiplayer why yes", but this thread speaks about "why no".

Actually LUCE1 this threads speaks about both. It's just that as you may see if you read every post there are just a whole lot of reasons why people don't use MultiPlayer. I invited responses for both the negatives and the positives. So far though the negatives seem to be what most are speaking to.

[PRB]

So what's the answer? I've always though that Bush Flying Unlimited had a cool thing going. The idea of a set of "missions" that anyone can "sign up" for and complete, seems like a lot of fun to me. Of course you don't have to fly online at BFU. Wouldn't it be fun to have something "inspired" by BFU, but more along the lines of our "roots" which is combat type planes, but that would have to be flown online? Of course one of the probllems with such an idea would be scheduling. To complete missions online, with other players, would require that all participants show up at an appointed time. I think this would put a damper on the whole thing. One of the nice things about BFU is that you can complete the flights on your own schedule. Just thinking out loud. What is it that draws people to those online shooter games? Ok, dumb question. We need ideas that will draw people to MP. Hop lists clearly isn't it.

[Francois]

I feel that it is probably also a 'time' thing. We had GREAT participation when we started Emma Field Flying Club, and BFU at Avsim was also a very active group. I have been member on and off of a few small groups over the years, some are still running. But for some reason these things seem to have run their time...... people move on, start doing other things, not only FS related too.
It has been attempted to re-kindle interest in Emma-like clubs and multi-player... so far it keeps fizzling. Even the major Aerosoft attempt with Andras Kozma's Andras Field has never drawn the attention and enthusiasm that we saw in these 'first generation' multiplayer 'communities'.

I don't have the answer, it just seems there is less interest overall in these sort of things. Maybe it requires to much imagination and especially, to much time ? Today's average attention span for anything seems to be measured in seconds rather than years....

[falcon409]

I feel that it is probably also a 'time' thing. We had GREAT participation when we started Emma Field Flying Club, and BFU at Avsim was also a very active group. I have been member on and off of a few small groups over the years, some are still running. But for some reason these things seem to have run their time...... people move on, start doing other things, not only FS related too.
It has been attempted to re-kindle interest in Emma-like clubs and multi-player... so far it keeps fizzling. Even the major Aerosoft attempt with Andras Kozma's Andras Field has never drawn the attention and enthusiasm that we saw in these 'first generation' multiplayer 'communities'.

I don't have the answer, it just seems there is less interest overall in these sort of things. Maybe it requires to much imagination and especially, to much time? Today's average attention span for anything seems to be measured in seconds rather than years....

Mainly what I've seen as well. . .for all the hype that goes with starting up a new Multiplayer Server/Platform, the excitement is very quick to dissipate and everyone just kinda goes back to what they were doing before they got all excited, lol. I guess in the end, there is no real single answer to why people rush to MP and then just as quickly disappear. I think it comes down to the psychology of people and why we do what we do. . . . .what motivates us and what makes us go in another direction. It sure won't be solved here and nothing I say about the merits and ease of use of MP will change the minds of those who see no merit in it and find it difficult to get set up and running. We are who we are.

[ZEUS67]

In my case, I believe that flying is a personal experience that cannot be shared. Very much like driving a car. Only one can drive, the rest are passengers. Even if you are using shared cockpit, there is only one pilot.
Most multiplayer sims are competitive. They are either combat sims or racing sims. One individual or group against another. So, flying around in multiplayer is not very different than flying around off-line and chatting with your friends via skype, facebook, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

[falcon409]

In my case, I believe that flying is a personal experience that cannot be shared. Very much like driving a car. Only one can drive, the rest are passengers. Even if you are using shared cockpit, there is only one pilot. Most multiplayer sims are competitive. They are either combat sims or racing sims. One individual or group against another. So, flying around in multiplayer is not very different than flying around off-line and chatting with your friends via skype, facebook, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

I spent some time looking over you comments and before this thread disappears to the back pages I wanted to just touch on a few things you mentioned. The first "Most Multiplayer Sims are Competitive". Over the years I've been in and out of probably a dozen or so MP Groups. None of them were competitive. The only one that even came close was a VAF from many years ago and it was more friendly competition. . .nothing stressful. The current SOH Multiplayer Server is far from competitive, so I don't really see that. On that same vein. . . . ."they are either Combat Sims or Racing Sims". Again, no not really and understand, the whole idea of this thread while not explicitly stated that way is looking at Multiplayer within the Flight-Sim Community. I assumed that would be understood based on the fact that we're in an FS9/FSX Forum. Outside of FSX and FS9, sure, there are a great many Multiplayer/gamer groups and I would lump the Combat Sims and Racing Sims in there as well and I would wager that almost every one of those is quite competitive.

What I think happens many times is that folks who are thinking about trying MP have perceptions of what this is all about based on hearsay and not personal experience. I happen to be someone who enjoys Multiplayer. Connecting to the FSHost server is painless, getting the Teamspeak setup going is also pretty painless. There are always folks here and on other server forums who are more than happy to walk you through any problems you might have. There are also servers I stay away from for various reasons, VatSim and Gamespy are two of them. . .but it didn't keep my from finding the one I was comfortable with and getting online.

The reality of all this chit chat though, is that you can't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. You can't tell folks how easy it is and then expect them to suddenly flock to the MP Server or be surprised when no shows up. Every time I open one of these threads I hope that maybe with this one. . .I'll finally get through to the doubters and we'll have new blood finding out what MP can be. That never happens, and it won't happen this time either. Like Francois says. . . ."these things seem to have run their time. . . .people move on. . . .start doing other things. . . . .", ". . . .Today's average attention span for anything seems to be measured in seconds rather than years. . . ."

[Francois]

....... yes. but having said all that...... you really never know. At one point something may still pop up suddenly and attract people to build a new 'community' (because THAT is what usually keeps these things going..... NOT a product, server or technology) and fuel another bout of multi-playering !

One other thing that I think did not get mentioned yet as to what often also stops people from participating, is their fear of their English. As Falcon said somewhere, we had groups going with all sorts of accents and problems, but in the end people coped and got along.
That TOO happened because people felt like part of a community and could then step over their bashfulness.

FWIW, I know there are a few of us here who will not stop trying once every while to get something going again of what WE all know what great fun...... and I for one have many 'Internet friends' whom I still am in contact with, and whom I 'met' through the multi-player flying at one point.

[expat]

If you can find the right group of guys who you develop friendships with, it makes all the difference.

I look back fondly and miss my too few and rare appearences with you guys Mitch!! As well as the comradrie, those sessions and discussions over TS yielded a huge amount of advice and information. You see and hear little tips and things you had no idea about being possible in FS.

[cortomalteseit]

The only problem that often keep me unavailable to MP sessions is the lack of time.
The difference between single player and multiplayer it's like to go diving in a pool and in a caribbean sea...

[jonraptor]

I myself fly almost exclusively online with a few select friends that I have. Like many of you have said we spend as much time talking and exchanging stories and advice as we do flying. The type of flying I like to do lends itself to flying with others, I enjoy flying formation and formation aerobatics. Unless im really bored and tooling around with fsrecorder you will usually find me flying with my friends. Its also amazing the amount of information and knowledge that you can pick up from simply talking to other people about flying. I love that aspect of it as well. The flying that we do is not regimented like it might be on VATSIM or BVA but I think the freedom to go where you want to and fly what you want, with your friends, is what makes the experience truly fun.

[LUCE1]

allright,
so far the pros seem to be more than cons, wanting to make a summary of the evidence it seems that with the simulated flight in multiplayer you get:
- Increased friendship
- Best contributions in terms of knowledge
- More fun
So why are so few?
Even if the reasons seem to be many, none has seemed clear and concrete.
BTW: I also personally do not like the networks of the type of VATSIM or IVAO, where the phraseology and form seems more important than substance, however if you find an ATC with open-mind and common sense you can learn a lot.
At VAAFSE we have created our own environment with all needed servers and simulating the NATO air operations in southern Europe of 70-80 years with great satisfaction, but returning to the key point: we need models specifically designed for MP, currently most of the "blazoned" models available are like bricks in MP.

[Bone]

but returning to the key point: we need models specifically designed for MP, currently most of the "blazoned" models available are like bricks in MP.

The best solution here is to somehow talk the MAIW crowd into converting all of their AI FS9 models into FSX native, and then use them as surrogates in the MP environement. They work good in FSX already, but would really be smoking hot if they got converted.

...and yes, there's an AI F-104 model.

[LUCE1]

The best solution here is to somehow talk the MAIW crowd into converting all of their AI FS9 models into FSX native, and then use them as surrogates in the MP environement. They work good in FSX already, but would really be smoking hot if they got converted.
...and yes, there's an AI F-104 model.

Unfortunately using MAIW you loose the possibility to see animations (unless FSX default) so you loose the "MP consistency".
It is possible design and develop good FSX models for MP without renouncing to graphic quality, just think that removing the bump and specular earns 50% of the frames and did not lose much in quality, the key point is the model, it must be designed and build having in mind the MP.
..and yes there's a FSX native F-104 model, high quality, that works in MP in crowded session with little or no frame drop and mantaining "MP consistency".
cheers
/Mario

[Bone]

Unfortunately using MAIW you loose the possibility to see animations (unless FSX default) so you loose the "MP consistency".

We can't have everything, unfortunately. As well, you'll never get everyone who is involved in FS (developers or users) to agree to the same standard.