A Lockheed "Rounder"

***Willy*** · December 19th, 2011, 09:56

Milton has been making them for for FS9, but giving the source files for FSX conversions. I imagine that this will be the same.

**Milton Shupe** · December 19th, 2011, 10:11

Originally Posted by Daveroo

ok...i know this gets old...but will it be 2004 only? or will it port to FSX?..or a FSX version?

Willy is on it. I do test these on both sides so it should make a reasonable port-over.

With that said, the gmax source will be available for native conversions, as always.

**Cag40Navy** · December 19th, 2011, 10:22

Maybe we can also venture to the PV-2 Fire Tankers also.....

**Volker Böhme** · December 19th, 2011, 11:45

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

Here is a research question. What is the width and length of the flap?

Modeling and animating these fowler flaps are things I like to do.
This turned out really nice and the animation looks great.

It is hard to determine sizes of these things but we will do what we can with what we have.

Here are two sequences of the animation at 0 degrees, 15, 25, and 45.

See what you think.

Hi Milton,

according to Badrocke/Gunston's 'Lockheed Aircraft Cutaways', "Wing wake turbulence was cured by extending the wing trailing edge slightly behind the flaps and raising the tailplane above the rear fuselage." There is, however, no cutaway of the L-18, but a picture (p. 23) shows the lower side of a PV-2. The four flap segements run beween guides that extend slightly behind the trailing edge.
The two inner flap segments are overlapped by the wing's trailing edge by around 30% of the flpa's longitudinal length, but this tapers down to zero over the outer two segments. The trailing edge of the flap is a straight line with the trailing edge of the aileron.

The aircraft in question is preserved by the Confederate Air Force.

Best regards,
Volker

**Milton Shupe** · December 19th, 2011, 11:57

Originally Posted by Volker Böhme

Hi Milton,

according to Badrocke/Gunston's 'Lockheed Aircraft Cutaways', "Wing wake turbulence was cured by extending the wing trailing edge slightly behind the flaps and raising the tailplane above the rear fuselage." There is, however, no cutaway of the L-18, but a picture (p. 23) shows the lower side of a PV-2. The four flap segements run beween guides that extend slightly behind the trailing edge.
The two inner flap segments are overlapped by the wing's trailing edge by around 30% of the flpa's longitudinal length, but this tapers down to zero over the outer two segments. The trailing edge of the flap is a straight line with the trailing edge of the aileron.

The aircraft in question is preserved by the Confederate Air Force.

Best regards,
Volker

Volker,

Thank you for this excerpt.

I believe I have all of this correct. I am attaching some screenshots to show what I have.

Let me know if you see an issue with this.

I also have the tail plane above the fuselage by at least half its depth.

Thanks

**Cag40Navy** · December 19th, 2011, 14:05

Originally Posted by Volker Böhme

Hi Milton,

according to Badrocke/Gunston's 'Lockheed Aircraft Cutaways', "Wing wake turbulence was cured by extending the wing trailing edge slightly behind the flaps and raising the tailplane above the rear fuselage." There is, however, no cutaway of the L-18, but a picture (p. 23) shows the lower side of a PV-2. The four flap segements run beween guides that extend slightly behind the trailing edge.
The two inner flap segments are overlapped by the wing's trailing edge by around 30% of the flpa's longitudinal length, but this tapers down to zero over the outer two segments. The trailing edge of the flap is a straight line with the trailing edge of the aileron.

The aircraft in question is preserved by the Confederate Air Force.

Best regards,
Volker

I may be going back to Midland soon, so i can get exterior shots but i know that thing will not have an ability to be shot from the inside. I do now a few people who fly PV-2's. Ill talk to them and see if i can take a look around and maybe snap a shot or 2. Hoping that we may have a possibility to see the tanker variant of this because it is a rare tanker. Somewhat unknown.

**Wings of Gold** · December 19th, 2011, 14:42

Check out this site for various Lodestar airlines: http://edcoatescollection.com/ac3/Ai...0Lodestar.html

REALLY lookin forward to this over-looked commercial bird,

Bill

**Milton Shupe** · December 19th, 2011, 18:57

Originally Posted by Wings of Gold

Check out this site for various Lodestar airlines: http://edcoatescollection.com/ac3/Ai... Lodestar.html

REALLY lookin forward to this over-looked commercial bird,

Bill

I agree; great shots there.

Meanwhile, back to the "heavy lifting" on the Harpoon, after many hours sweating the details on the flaps and guides, I have it just about nailed for both sides. Just noticed a slight droop on the outer left side of the left flap. :-/

Tail section is good except for one reversed pivot on the elevator trim right side.

Looking forward to rebuilding the engine cowl flaps and exhaust ring ... ughhhh. LOL
I can't even count all the cowl flaps that must be cut in, shaped and animated. {{{shaking head}}}
It will be a good long days work.

**Flyboy208** · December 19th, 2011, 19:55

Milton, you are one busy Man - and we like it that way - alot of Folks will be so happy once again ! Mike

**Andre19** · December 19th, 2011, 21:00

Thanks Milton, it's looking great. We appreciate all the hours you put into these projects.

**Volker Böhme** · December 19th, 2011, 21:08

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

Volker,

Thank you for this excerpt.

I believe I have all of this correct. I am attaching some screenshots to show what I have.

Let me know if you see an issue with this.

I also have the tail plane above the fuselage by at least half its depth.

Thanks

Hi,

sorry, but that seems to be the L-14/Hudson configuration, but it was changed for Lodestar/Ventura/Harpoon.

I'll get back to you with some pictures later today.

Best regards,
Volker

**Milton Shupe** · December 19th, 2011, 22:24

Originally Posted by Flyboy208

Milton, you are one busy Man - and we like it that way - alot of Folks will be so happy once again ! Mike

Well thanks Mike; that's what we hope for.

Originally Posted by Andre19

Thanks Milton, it's looking great. We appreciate all the hours you put into these projects.

You bet Andre. It's what modelers do and there aren't many ways around making them come together. It just takes due diligence.

Meanwhile, putting in some of that on the port engine. Trying to get the basic engine components shaped properly. Next up is to deal with those flaps.

**Matt Wynn** · December 19th, 2011, 22:40

it's a thing of beauty Milton! fantastic work as always.... :salute:

**nigel richards** · December 20th, 2011, 01:01

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

Meanwhile, putting in some of that on the port engine. Trying to get the basic engine components shaped properly. Next up is to deal with those flaps.

Ahhh! Engine one.

Okay Milton!

You've illustrated your point most graphically indeed Sir...

No, no, I've started material research already, in order to avoid any of those last minute flaps
(you know how I loathe them too)

Wilco

Edit: We didn't have any flaps on the Avias...did we?

**Milton Shupe** · December 20th, 2011, 04:46

Originally Posted by Matt Wynn

it's a thing of beauty Milton! fantastic work as always.... :salute:

Thanks Matt. I hope it shall be when finished.

Originally Posted by nigel richards

Ahhh! Engine one.

Okay Milton!

You've illustrated your point most graphically indeed Sir...

No, no, I've started material research already, in order to avoid any of those last minute flaps
(you know how I loathe them too)

Wilco

Edit: We didn't have any flaps on the Avias...did we?

That is correct; no detectable or documented cowl or wing flaps on the Avia 51 or 156 yet stall at 62 MPH.

**Blackbird686** · December 20th, 2011, 11:28

Originally Posted by Matt Wynn

it's a thing of beauty Milton! fantastic work as always.... :salute:

Couldn't have said it better myself. Me wonders if the venerable ol' Harpoon had a design influence on the Howard 500, or visa versa? Glad to see you're still puttin' them together, Milton. Your work is truely outstanding. :ernae:

BB686:USA-flag:

***Willy*** · December 20th, 2011, 11:47

Me wonders if the venerable ol' Harpoon had a design influence on the Howard 500, or visa versa?

From what I've read, Dee Howard used a lot of construction jigs that he got from Lockheed. Actually I think it was more the Ventura than the Harpoon although the Howard 500 does use Harpoon landing gear. The outer wings were supposed to be from Venturas, but the fuselage was all new construction in order to withstand cabin pressurization. Howard just took an excellent design from Lockheed and improved upon it.

**Milton Shupe** · December 20th, 2011, 12:11

If you have the Howard 500, check the Docs folder for the history of Dee Howard and the various Howard offshoots.

Or, just go here for a complete story and pictures:

http://www.flightsimonline.com/howar...500history.htm

At the bottom of the article is an account by Dave Cummins, the pilot, "Flying the Howard 500".
If you have not read this, I strongly encourage you to do so.

**mrogers** · December 20th, 2011, 15:49

Here are some links to a walkaround of some PV2s that I found on the web, I don't know if you've already got them or if they may be of any help, but just in case, here they are. Note the nose radome shape, some are pointed and some are more of a round blunt shape. I wonder if the pointed nose is the correct shape?

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/lu...dex.php?Page=1

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.co...on/walk320.htm

http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/pv/pv-2_walk.shtml

http://www.warbirdsandairshows.com/l...poonphotos.htm

http://www.martinsammodels.com/webpa.../PV-2/PV-2.htm

**Milton Shupe** · December 20th, 2011, 16:24

Thanks Mark. yes, I had all but one, but you never know so I really appreciate your research efforts.

**Cag40Navy** · December 20th, 2011, 18:33

Hey Uncle Milton, good work! Look forward to the results!

**the330thbg** · December 21st, 2011, 10:05

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

Thanks Mark. yes, I had all but one, but you never know so I really appreciate your research efforts.

Milton,

http://warbirdinformationexchange.or...=38160&start=0

Here is a gentleman on this website "WIX" who is presently restoring a Harpoon. Adding in all 8(eight) yes 8 50's to the nose etc. Doing an incredible job.

Best of luck to you.., your bird is looking swell as well. You two should get in touch as I am certain he will be able to answer your questions about the flaps.., etc.

S.

**Milton Shupe** · December 21st, 2011, 14:31

Originally Posted by the330thbg

Milton,

http://warbirdinformationexchange.or...=38160&start=0

Here is a gentleman on this website "WIX" who is presently restoring a Harpoon. Adding in all 8(eight) yes 8 50's to the nose etc. Doing an incredible job.

Best of luck to you.., your bird is looking swell as well. You two should get in touch as I am certain he will be able to answer your questions about the flaps.., etc.

S.

Taigh Ramey is a busy man. He was instrumental in helping us with the AT-11 project providing many interior photos of a completed unit.I will email him to announce our project just as an informational note.

Thanks for the heads-up.

**Cag40Navy** · December 21st, 2011, 16:46

Wow... Amazing work they have done.

**Milton Shupe** · December 21st, 2011, 16:55

Yes, they do amazing work. Taigh is very particular and very knowledgeable.

Well, today and last night was dedicated to getting the cowl flaps done. Lots of prep work getting ready and now we have the flaps done for the port engine.

Now to focus on all the other engine nacelle related things.