A Lockheed "Rounder" - Page 87
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Thread: A Lockheed "Rounder"

  1. #2151
    I labeled them that way because its realistic... in this... sim, you know? It's not about what's convinient for simmers. The aircraft and a lot at the time, had the mixture set that way as it ran with auto rich and auto lean systems and wanted to be easily differentiated from the pitch and throttles.


  2. #2152
    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Wow! Interesting, you, me and 1000 others missed it I guess because no one actually reads those labels; they are just eye candy. :-)

    Well, I can change it no problem, but I know the world will complain about them being backwards then. :-)

    Then they will want the Harpoon changed when explained. :-)

    Or, we can change the labels :-)

    Dang! What to do.


    Ahhhhhhhh, the dilima that a developer has when deciding and researching on building something !!!

    If this is the 'only' material that they can find, and they find no other to go against it, then they do the 'build' according to the material they have found..

    Looking at that picture (in post #2149), it apparently seems that their 'mind set' was a little different than what some of us are used to 'today' !! To me, and again looking at that picture, I wouldn't want the tail wheel locked (for or during flight) and partially blocking access to my fuel selector !! And at first, I was confused with the 'prop' labeling until I realized they where referring to the pitch of the blades (low pitch / high rpm) rather than rpm - I thought that 'labeling' was backwards at the beginning !!!

    I have yet to figure out the 'mixture' scenario tho !! Not unless back then their thinking was: in flight - or as the flight progressed - by moving the controls forward they would be moving them out of the way of other functions - same as the throttles !! In any case, other than the fact that the real airplane was probably developed / built long before I was around - who knows !!

    In 'defense' of the 'sim' developer, if they elect to build something and 'decide' to do it as accurate as possible - based on the material they have researched / found - then I guess some of us have to learn things where a little different 'back in the day' !! lol Otherwise some of us will probably drive the developer more crazier than what they already are !!!!! lol

    Just me 2 cents !!

    WND

  3. #2153
    Senior Administrator Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firekitten View Post
    I labeled them that way because its realistic... in this... sim, you know? It's not about what's convinient for simmers. The aircraft and a lot at the time, had the mixture set that way as it ran with auto rich and auto lean systems and wanted to be easily differentiated from the pitch and throttles.
    Which makes perfect sense to me.
    Let Being Helpful Be More Important Than Being Right.

  4. #2154
    Quote Originally Posted by Firekitten View Post
    I labeled them that way because its realistic... in this... sim, you know? It's not about what's convinient for simmers. The aircraft and a lot at the time, had the mixture set that way as it ran with auto rich and auto lean systems and wanted to be easily differentiated from the pitch and throttles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Willy View Post
    Which makes perfect sense to me.
    It does indeed. In fact, Team Uiver has that realism implied in their DC-2.

    Cheers,
    Maarten

  5. #2155
    And realism is what makes developments stand out from the pack. Even with things as simple as the direction of the levers.

    It would take away a lot of the fun flying different aircraft if they would all work the same.

    You could always add a little "Note" in the readme file relating to the mixture lever. Oh sorry, how dumb of me...who ever ****, or even a readme file. Us men always think we already know it all
    One day without laughter, is one day without living.
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  6. #2156
    Quote Originally Posted by manfredc3 View Post
    And realism is what makes developments stand out from the pack. Even with things as simple as the direction of the levers.

    It would take away a lot of the fun flying different aircraft if they would all work the same.

    You could always add a little "Note" in the readme file relating to the mixture lever. Oh sorry, how dumb of me...who ever ****, or even a readme file. Us men always think we already know it all
    Thanks everyone for the comments.

    I will be correcting the lever animation in the Lodestars and Ventura; there really is no other option for me.

    As for the Harpoons, I do not intend to change and release a fix. Exports on that side is a 4-hour effort if I get everything right the first time otherwise it could easily cost me a day. But maybe sometime in the future.
    Milton Shupe
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  7. #2157

    Lodestar Changes

    The Lodestars did not have electric fuel pumps. They used a hand pump and engine pumps.

    The start procedure calls for the hand pump to be used until Fuel Pressure is 15 lbs.
    Turn on the boost pumps and then crank.

    The hand pump in the VC is problematic for me. I am therefore adding electric pumps to the overhead panel beside the Boost pumps.
    Since all buyers have that right to modifications of the aircraft before purchase, Lockheed had no objections.

    So this is where there will be added.
    Milton Shupe
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  8. #2158
    Are people really that surprised about reversed mixture levers? I mean, the B-17 has them. So does the B-24. Am I to assume no one here has those in FSX?

    Also, while on the subject, the middle 2 levers read closed and open on that photograph of a real Lodestar on the previous page, while the left 2 levers read high cruising and low cruising. Open and closed usually refer to the throttles, and High and low to Prop Pitch (High being High RPM and low being Low RPM). While I could be wrong, I'm pretty sure this means the middle levers are actually throttle and the left ones pitch. Does anyone have a copy of the Lodestar flight manual?

  9. #2159
    Uh, yes, I am surprised I did not see this and that it works this way.

    After 13 years of modeling aircraft, these Lockheeds were the first time to see it, or in my case, not see it. :-)

    No, I do not have those aircraft. I spend all my time building; I don't even fly my own after release.
    Milton Shupe
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  10. #2160


    Milton, this video (Along with Firekitten's pictures) supports my theories. Pause at 0:52. The video shows the plane parked, with the propellers at high rpm, throttle and mixture cut. This'd show that the mixture lever does in fact work in reverse and that the throttles are actually the middle 2 levers, while the 2 left levers are prop pitch.

  11. #2161
    Quote Originally Posted by Maty12 View Post

    Milton, this video (Along with Firekitten's pictures) supports my theories. Pause at 0:52. The video shows the plane parked, with the propellers at high rpm, throttle and mixture cut. This'd show that the mixture lever does in fact work in reverse and that the throttles are actually the middle 2 levers, while the 2 left levers are prop pitch.
    I know it works in reverse now; I just did not know it when I animated the lever. :-) No big deal.

    EDIT: BTW, I provided the picture of the ECU, and the animations have already been changed. Breathe easy :-)
    Milton Shupe
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  12. #2162
    Okay all you gurus; time to step up ...

    I have two issues/questions:

    1) I have electric fuel pumps installed; I have Boost pumps installed; are they the same or does boost supply extra psi for takeoff or whatever?
    They each have their own names in the sim SDK, but when I switch on either one, they both come on.


    2) On a cold start, neither switch brings up the fuelpsi. Battery is on, avionics switch on, gens on. Obviously will not start without fuel psi.
    If I hit cntrl+shift+F4, fuel psi comes up to 15, but I see no switches moving when that happens.

    What am I missing here??? What is the sim turning on that I am not?

    Here is my cfg fuel section:

    [fuel]
    LeftAux = 0.000, -3.000, -2.000, 053.000, 0.000
    RightAux = 0.000, 3.000, -2.000, 053.000, 0.000
    LeftMain = 0.000, -6.000, 0.000, 270.000, 0.000
    RightMain = 0.000, 6.000, 0.000, 270.000, 0.000
    LeftTip = 0.000, -6.000, 0.000, 000.000, 0.000
    RightTip = 0.000, 6.000, 0.000, 000.000, 0.000

    fuel_type =1
    number_of_tank_selectors =2
    electric_pump=1
    fuel_dump_rate=0.02000
    anemometer_pump=0
    manual_pump=0
    engine_driven_pump=1
    Milton Shupe
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  13. #2163
    Okay, once I removed the engine driven pumps, the fuel psi comes up with the fuel pump switches, so I guess they are mutually exclusive to the sim and the last statement overrode the electric pump statement.

    EDIT: So, I guess we can assume that if you have engine driven fuel pumps, you MUST use the hand pump to build PSI before starting.
    Milton Shupe
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  14. #2164
    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    I know it works in reverse now; I just did not know it when I animated the lever. :-) No big deal.

    EDIT: BTW, I provided the picture of the ECU, and the animations have already been changed. Breathe easy :-)
    Good to know. Have the throttle and prop pitch levers been fixed as well? Also, sorry if I'm making a big deal out of this, I just want to help out.

  15. #2165
    Quote Originally Posted by Maty12 View Post
    Good to know. Have the throttle and prop pitch levers been fixed as well? ... snipped ...
    Explain yourself Sir ...

    EDIT: I am curious since you seem to have downloaded the beta version, why you have not provided the courtesy of an issues beta report. This would have helped tremendously. This one thing at a time is not productive given the nature of time required to make changes and export/test them.

    I will be cutting off changes Wednesday night.
    Last edited by Milton Shupe; September 1st, 2015 at 13:09.
    Milton Shupe
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  16. #2166
    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Explain yourself Sir ...

    EDIT: I am curious since you seem to have downloaded the beta version, why you have not provided the courtesy of an issues beta report. This would have helped tremendously. This one thing at a time is not productive given the nature of time required to make changes and export/test hem.

    I will be cutting off changes Wednesday night.
    Well I had the Harpoon beta without those textures, so I never really noticed anything, and I simply hadn't flown the Lodestar that much. When I updated my Harpoon, I already had the Lodestar.

    As I showed in the video and explained on my post before the that one, the current download has the levers in order (left to right) Throttle, Prop Pitch, Mixture, when in reality it should be Prop Pitch, Throttle, Mixture. As I stated before, the words "open" and "closed" appear near the pitch levers, but those words refer to throttle. Likewise, the words "High" and "Low" appear near the throttle levers, when they refer to prop pitch.

  17. #2167
    Quote Originally Posted by Maty12 View Post
    Well I had the Harpoon beta without those textures, so I never really noticed anything, and I simply hadn't flown the Lodestar that much. When I updated my Harpoon, I already had the Lodestar.

    As I showed in the video and explained on my post before the that one, the current download has the levers in order (left to right) Throttle, Prop Pitch, Mixture, when in reality it should be Prop Pitch, Throttle, Mixture. As I stated before, the words "open" and "closed" appear near the pitch levers, but those words refer to throttle. Likewise, the words "High" and "Low" appear near the throttle levers, when they refer to prop pitch.
    You are correct of course. And that Sir proves the value of an open beta that gets 135 downloads, and 3 responses for issues. :-)

    Thank you :-)
    Milton Shupe
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  18. #2168
    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    And that Sir proves the value of an open beta that gets 135 downloads, and 3 responses for issues. :-)

    Thank you :-)
    I think it's because people don't realize what a "beta download" is. They instead think of it as getting the finished product early, when in reality they are supposed to find all the mistakes (If there are any). They just get blown away be the good of the aircraft, and fail to notice what's wrong.

  19. #2169
    Quote Originally Posted by Maty12 View Post
    I think it's because people don't realize what a "beta download" is. They instead think of it as getting the finished product early, when in reality they are supposed to find all the mistakes (If there are any). They just get blown away be the good of the aircraft, and fail to notice what's wrong.
    Yes, I suppose. EDIT:

    When I am modeling, my focus is on individual parts, individual textures, individual animations, everything is sharply focused. Only towards the end, does one step back to look and try to put it all together. But in modeling, I still see only individual components, not always the interaction of parts and textures. That's where alpha and beta testing comes into play. Different eyes with a different focus and perspective are necessary to catch these things. Thankfully there are a few around who do that well.

    I have the levers corrected and the knobs now show white, blue, red, left to right. I assume the colors belong to the lever, not the position the lever is in.
    Milton Shupe
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    My Uploads at SOH - Here
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  20. #2170
    Yes, I suppose different perspectives are crucial for detecting bugs. On a side note, I have a question regarding the propellers: When starting the engines, the props go from normal, to semi-transparent to the actual "on" position. Is this a bug or a side effect of me using this plane in FSX instead of FS2004?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2015-08-30_00023.jpg  

  21. #2171
    That is the approach the sim takes to speeding through rpms ranges: still-solid, slow-semi-transparent, fast-blurred.

    There are actually 3 sets of props for each engine: still, slow, and blurred. The sim changes at set rpm values from one set to the next.

    The slow is adjustable from solid to totally transparent.
    Milton Shupe
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    My Uploads at SOH - Here
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  22. #2172
    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    That is the approach the sim takes to speeding through rpms ranges: still-solid, slow-semi-transparent, fast-blurred.

    There are actually 3 sets of props for each engine: still, slow, and blurred. The sim changes at set rpm values from one set to the next.

    The slow is adjustable from solid to totally transparent.
    Thanks for clearing that up. Always glad to learn something new.

  23. #2173
    Sunday I am going on vacation for a week. I plan to release the Lodestar package Thursday night.

    At this point I have Andre's permission to use some of his paints for the L-18 and Firekitten's permission to use her military paints for the C57 and C60A.

    If anyone else would like their artistry included, contact me by Wednesday.

    I know there are some great paints out there and we will have access to them eventually. I look forward to that.

    Thanks
    Milton Shupe
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    My Uploads at SOH - Here
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  24. #2174
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    I've been looking forward to these for a while. I just wish I could have been of some use in the beta period. Sadly, I'm hoping I'll get a chance to fly the lodestars at all! A sixty hour work week in construction doesn't leave much energy for much else. But your alpha wip versions of the harpoon were easily my all-time favorite planes to fly back before I took this job, and I can't wait to fly the finished products!
    "Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life." - 2 Nephi 31:20

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  25. #2175
    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Requesting assistance in finding nose content pictures. These are the only 3 references I have. Trying to put a few things up front to better appoint the PV-1.
    Hi Milton,

    These are not definitive but hopefully they'll be of some use.

    Dave

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