CFS2 ETO, MTO, CBI, PTO, plus CFS2 Crimson Skies project

[Captain Kurt]

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There are a lot of alternative P-51D skins available for CFS2 but I don't see much for CFS3. IL2 skins layout does not offer any big advantage over the CFS2 layouts that I can see, either. It's the graphic compression algorithm that determines how sharp the skin details appear, not the model. We can use a less "lossy" algorithm (extended 16 bit or extended 32 bit) for CFS2 planes but it affects the frame rates in play. Finally, the detail in the finished skin is almost 100% up to the painter in all cases no matter what sim the model is in. See the above pics of the CFS2 Alphasim P-51D or the Rebuffat Bf109 - how much more could you get from IL2 or CFS3?

IMHO I still think your time would be best spent working on adding LODs to improve the Alphasim models rather than re-inventing the wheel. Just my 2 cents.

[Seagull V]

There's plenty of life left in the paint-schemes area - some of the old models look 200% when a new skin is done for them - just depends on how much time you want to spend spreading those paint pixels around. Can be issues with the way that a model has been mapped - but there are some options for that.

Major advantage for Il-2 was a model for the version of aircraft with a base template that could be added to. Something I would love to do for CFS2 but there is only so much time in the day.
Then there is the issue with different models and various users who prefer a particular model - P-51D Mustang for example, and some of the more accurate models not being frame rate friendly for CFS2.

Would be nice to set up several squadrons of Mustangs escorting hundreds of B-17s with heavy Luftwaffe attacks !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Captain Kurt]

There's plenty of life left in the paint-schemes area - some of the old models look 200% when a new skin is done for them - just depends on how much time you want to spend spreading those paint pixels around. Can be issues with the way that a model has been mapped - but there are some options for that.

Major advantage for Il-2 was a model for the version of aircraft with a base template that could be added to. Something I would love to do for CFS2 but there is only so much time in the day.
Then there is the issue with different models and various users who prefer a particular model - P-51D Mustang for example, and some of the more accurate models not being frame rate friendly for CFS2.

Would be nice to set up several squadrons of Mustangs escorting hundreds of B-17s with heavy Luftwaffe attacks !!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm working on that right now - The 354th FG in WWII campaign.

I can't get quite that many into a mission , but even if it was possible you couldn't see most of them. The formations were spread out over many miles and the pilots could only see what was within their local area. The rest of the formations were beyond their eyesight.

[JEDDRAGON]

I see well I guess i need to rethink and explain it better :P

first I'm trying to make a open source file for you guys if I had the alphasim model I would but i don't and if you guys do have can you show me

because seeing i don't have it I'm gonna go for an alternate source then :P the thing is i seen the IL-2 models they are more complete then most of the planes I've seen here they have lod and everything to make a complete plane

I'm guessing if I can't improve something get something ells to replace it :P and improve that

in order to save work XD I got the models for IL-2 seeing I can get you guys a good model to improve to your liking :P so for the skins

I guess we could make them open source model to have be universal set of skin sets but that might make the file heavy so i was thinking of using a common source files we could figure that out later

I as also thinking we don't have to throw away everything the DP, air files, and other stuff can still be used

so I don't have to work that hard to help you guys I'm just converting the model seeing we don't have a open source file and getting permission is a pain right now so I'm going with stock stuff :P what you guys think of my plan

guess if I have these two choices
replace a model with you know you can fix any time or get alphasims model by asking them to give us the source file and improve that?
I guess it's still a 50/50 deal XP

not sure what ells to do other then make Crimson Skies :P

[Captain Kurt]

I'm thinking there would have to be permission from the authors in either case. No point in getting into legal issues.

I know IL2 used to be extremely protective of their models and would not even allow third party models to be developed for the game unless the third party developer went through a formal approval process with Ubisoft first. I don't know if anybody wound up getting permission. Maybe that is all different now, as that was some years ago.

Alphasim was taken over by another company but released all of their old CFS2 models to the public realm as part of that event, so we might have a better chance getting their permission and the source files, if they still exist.

Maybe the best thing to do would be to ask both of them and go with whoever gives permission? Either way what you are trying to accomplish is a GOOD thing.

[JEDDRAGON]

good idea too so guess we need to ask those two
but I like to add well I know for fact the an offline IL-2 forum known as SAS has been updating modding type airplanes form Il-2 1946

I guess we would also ask them a few things like their perssion to use their mods and did you ask Ubisoft gave you permission to do this?

if the not we I guess we have to fall back with the first two questions

here the forum
http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php?topic=4.0


so do you know how to contact the new alphasims guys I'm gonna need it I'll ask SAS my self and see what they say if the say no to both or either one then I'll ask Ubisoft and alphasims next and see if either one will help


ok I asked SAS already just need to get Alphasims to help us later on if I get a reply form either one will see who to use

[Captain Kurt]

All of the freeware Alphsim models are here http://www.easyfly.co.nz/Freeware/

The new company is called Virtavia. Their website is www.virtavia.com but it appears to be down when I just checked it now. I hope it is just a server problem and they have not gone out of business. Anybody know?

Post script : Searching posts here shows there has been some Russian scammers hijacking the URL and it has not been fixed yet. One of Alphasim's model builders is a member at SOH so maybe you could send him a private message and ask him about permission and or source code. - his tag is fsafranek

[JEDDRAGON]

alright then I will


alright I have asked away now we just need to see who will help us then :P

[JEDDRAGON]

ok never mind I think you guys have these in your archive files XP sorry for that

[JEDDRAGON]

Hi Jed No, we dont have official permission to modify IL2, but the company seems to tacidly allow us to, since we do bring a lot of attention and Longevity to their products, and IL2 is no longer their prime commercial Flight Sim Product. I do not know if they would take kindly to their stuff being used for other simulations. You'd have to check that out yourself. As for planes that are made from scratch, of which there are very few, you'd have to contact those authors individualy. I myself do not do 3d at all, I am all thumbs. Best of luck with it! Piet

so dose this mean we should ask Ubisoft still? and the modders form SAS then? what do you guys think of this it's the first answer I got

the way he said it made me think a little bit :P

[Seagull V]

Hello Jed

Personally I think we should all (all meaning everyone who still is involved with CFS2 and not just a few individuals as there is a lot of knowledge on how the old girl works out there) should utilise the source material that has been freely released, then use our group reference materials to build new models. The other sims can certainly be used as inspiration on what we want to achieve, but we should be careful not to tread on other peoples feet in the process. When I was looking at EAW I was thinking of a you scratch my back and I will scratch yours - probably also a good approach to take with SAS 1946 and Oleg Maddox from Il-2 if we head down that path.

Enthusiasm such as yours is definately needed - along with looking at how we can do things - there may be a few new tricks that the oldies can learn with the new programs that often crop up.

We should also be having some fun and enjoying this hobby as well !!!!!!!!!!!!

[JEDDRAGON]

so you think we should ask to help them in return to help us type deal sound like a good enough plan to work with

but if that fails so far I still got the FSDS files just gonna be a bit hard to convert them into Gmax type files throw milkshape :P

we also got the some stock planes for CFS3 and jane's ww2 fighters I don't think Jane's is around any more I need more info for that to know their ok with that their modding community is still around and have updated the planes as well using our stuff before so we do have someone here that might have a relation with that I have talk to one of them before in order to get the import/export files for the 3Dz files

still for IL-2 1946 he said no they don't need permission yet and sort of way because it's we a fan art group and the let us

so thew questions are now

Q: should stick with stock models and risk getting hammered my copyright?

A: I say no to that we must ask them to see if the say yes


Q: should we ask the modders instead?

A: I would say yes since he said they made them form scratch that could be good seeing it's their stuff not obisoft's nor is the modds for janes WW2F EAW might be hard though


or Q: should stick to the our community and see what we can past together ourselves

A: I would say yes but as a last resort though or it might be better to make alliances with the other modder's form SAS IL-2 1946 and WW2F, maybe
even EAW


last option answers all of the above


Q: should we explore all are options and make sure we get a real answer and see what were we stand on this?

A:mostly that what we most likely are gonna be doing right now :P



either way in the end we still meed more people on this I sure is heck can't do this myself i see that now


what do you guys think in this mess of options then is the bast course because I don't give up that easily on something

and yeah it's becoming more fun just trying to fight for resources XP



BTW I still got our resource to fall back on though

[JEDDRAGON]

well if we can't get use resource form il-2 or any other place because of copyrights and all we can do study it to make it be a far better plane we might as well stay with that i say we should model our planes in gmax but the way that il-2 dose it in FS or CFS format like i think Seagull V suggesting with out taking anything then what we're gonna need a team then

still i would go and just use the models themselves to cut us some time still the way Piet said it i think we can use them just make sure this stays freeware and give credit to use ubisoft for the files but i'm not sure about that to think on this cause even i'm running out of ideas now :p

[Stratobat]

Hey Jedd,

I still got the FSDS files just gonna be a bit hard to convert them into Gmax type files throw milkshape

You can convert FSDS .fsc files for use in Gmax by using CVA Converter.

Regards,
Stratobat

[JEDDRAGON]

Stratobat sorry to say but I know that already XD


gee it's been a week too long into this and I'm really just getting no where with this at least I'll ask the modders later then to see if i can use their planes just need their permission right might well ask the members of SAS and WW2F if we could use their mods soon then

still think that will be somewhat less wast of time if I had a way to use the stock planes with out all this copyright thing and permissions so far very few people are willing to help us here as much as i know I can't make a move with out any real help here

do guys think it's safe to assume that ubisoft won't object to us using their stuff then after what that guy said "IL2 is no longer their prime commercial Flight Sim Product." still the part of where he said "I do not know if they would take kindly to their stuff being used for other simulations." is making me hesitate to do anything

I mean so far I ready to go for it just need your guys ok on this or should just ask obisoft and wait and see a bit longer