SOH Team Project - Grumman Tracker, Trader, Tracer

**patful** · October 16th, 2011, 19:34

Originally Posted by Javis

Hey guys,

Meet Barney and Fred

cheers,
jan

Wow! Those are incredible. Thanks.

Pat

**mgr** · October 17th, 2011, 02:36

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

Starting thhe C-1A today. Looking for more cabin interior pictures. Have 3, all different of course.
No hurry, but will need next week sometime. Otherwise will work off these 3 pics from the web.
Thanks

To make it more difficult, version 4... ;-) Nice white, however love your 2th version, so very 70's

Marcel

**Milton Shupe** · October 17th, 2011, 05:06

Wow! Great shots Marcel

***aeronca1*** · October 17th, 2011, 07:48

I'm really looking forward to the release of this project!!! I know little or nothing about this bird, so would appreciate one of the resident experts here to help me out. Ultimately, I'd like to have the version Canada used. Is one of the variants under development the version used here in Canada, or is one of the variants close enough?

**p3aewguy** · October 17th, 2011, 09:29

Originally Posted by aeronca1

I'm really looking forward to the release of this project!!! I know little or nothing about this bird, so would appreciate one of the resident experts here to help me out. Ultimately, I'd like to have the version Canada used. Is one of the variants under development the version used here in Canada, or is one of the variants close enough?

Aeronca1

The S2F-1 being developed by Javis will be close to it. I'm not sure which type of engine nacelles he'll be using, maybe he'll do both the hawksbill and the earlier one. The earlier one was what the Canadian CS2F's had.

Dave

**Milton Shupe** · October 17th, 2011, 10:38

I think this explains it pretty well:

http://jproc.ca/rrp/rrp3/tracker.html

**fliger747** · October 17th, 2011, 10:40

Dave:

perhaps you or one of the other fire bomber types might know the weight per gallon for the retardant. Apparently the Firecat could haul up to 1200 gallons (a considerable weight!).

T

***aeronca1*** · October 17th, 2011, 10:40

Thanks Dave! You to Milton!!!!

**Milton Shupe** · October 17th, 2011, 10:48

This morning the C-1A began life in gmax. Parts of the fuselage from the E-1B (to be shortened), parts of the fuselage and vtail from the S2F, the htail from the S2F, the antennas as well for a starting point, the wings from the S2F (to be shortened), the gear from the E-1B, and of course an all new interior, save the cockpit from the E-1B.

Spent most of the morning perfecting the fuselage rounded, wider shape. This of course totally messes with the nose door and gear.

So, now the fun begins with the detailed work.

Shorten the fuselage, move all the forward parts rearward, cut in windows and doors, shorten the wings, correct all the antennas, build the interior, and remap the complete aircraft.

So, here I go ....

**Milton Shupe** · October 17th, 2011, 10:51

Originally Posted by fliger747

Dave:

perhaps you or one of the other fire bomber types might know the weight per gallon for the retardant. Apparently the Firecat could haul up to 1200 gallons (a considerable weight!).

T

We had this discussion when doing the F7F tanker. Check the weight used there.

**tankerguy72** · October 17th, 2011, 15:46

Originally Posted by fliger747

Dave:

perhaps you or one of the other fire bomber types might know the weight per gallon for the retardant. Apparently the Firecat could haul up to 1200 gallons (a considerable weight!).

T

9.4lbs per gallon, which would be 11,280lbs :salute:

**p3aewguy** · October 17th, 2011, 15:55

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

This morning the C-1A began life in gmax. Parts of the fuselage from the E-1B (to be shortened), parts of the fuselage and vtail from the S2F, the htail from the S2F, the antennas as well for a starting point, the wings from the S2F (to be shortened), the gear from the E-1B, and of course an all new interior, save the cockpit from the E-1B.

Spent most of the morning perfecting the fuselage rounded, wider shape. This of course totally messes with the nose door and gear.

So, now the fun begins with the detailed work.

Shorten the fuselage, move all the forward parts rearward, cut in windows and doors, shorten the wings, correct all the antennas, build the interior, and remap the complete aircraft.

So, here I go ....

Milton,

Don't forget to remove the CSD scoops on the right sides of the nacelles! The C-1 had DC generators and inverters vice AC Generators that needed the constant speed drives. Just a heads up! LOL!!!!

Dave

**Milton Shupe** · October 18th, 2011, 05:31

Originally Posted by p3aewguy

Milton,

Don't forget to remove the CSD scoops on the right sides of the nacelles! The C-1 had DC generators and inverters vice AC Generators that needed the constant speed drives. Just a heads up! LOL!!!!

Dave

Thanks Dave. Yup, did that early yesterday, but spent most of the day shortening the fuselage and moving all the parts rearward. clipping the wings, and shaping the revised fuselage. Now with all the "heavy lifting" done, I can get focused on cutting in the windows and doors, and the other differentiating aspects of this aircraft.

Now getting ready to cut in the doors and windows. Anyone with issues about how these windows are placed?

**fliger747** · October 18th, 2011, 07:52

Thanks for the weight on the retardant, I remember it as being surprisingly heavy!

T

**Milton Shupe** · October 18th, 2011, 11:32

Yup, still chipping away. Windows now in, TWA added back to port side, now set up in the sim for testing.

Made her a bit more "squatty" to improve appearance.

Next up, passenger and cargo doors.

Still much to do.

**p3aewguy** · October 18th, 2011, 13:44

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

Yup, still chipping away. Windows now in, TWA added back to port side, now set up in the sim for testing.

Made her a bit more "squatty" to improve appearance.

Next up, passenger and cargo doors.

Still much to do.

Looks like a COD!!

Dave

**Milton Shupe** · October 18th, 2011, 18:31

Originally Posted by p3aewguy

Looks like a COD!!

Dave

You bet!

Finally got the windows and doors 3D and animated, and interior fuselage of cabin built to accommodate them.
Punching in all these holes means a lot of hand rework of the fuselage so it takes some time.
Worked on antennas a bit but still need to redo some rigging.

TWA animation had to be adjusted for the port side, works nicely now.

I do have a question regarding the COD passenger door and cargo door workings.
Is the passenger door hinged on the Cargo door (appears to be).
Does the passenger door have to be opened before the cargo door is opened as a result?

Thanks for the help.

**p3aewguy** · October 18th, 2011, 19:22

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

You bet!

Finally got the windows and doors 3D and animated, and interior fuselage of cabin built to accommodate them.
Punching in all these holes means a lot of hand rework of the fuselage so it takes some time.
Worked on antennas a bit but still need to redo some rigging.

TWA animation had to be adjusted for the port side, works nicely now.

I do have a question regarding the COD passenger door and cargo door workings.
Is the passenger door hinged on the Cargo door (appears to be).
Does the passenger door have to be opened before the cargo door is opened as a result?

Thanks for the help.

Funny you asking that! I was looking that up today in the NATOPS manual. The passenger is hinged on the forward side to the Cargo door, which is hinged on the forward side also and is actually bolted closed. The passenger door latches open at about 90 degrees. When un-bolted the cargo door then opens and is restrained by a bar attached to the door and fuselage. So the answer is yes, the passenger door must be opened and latched before the cargo door can be opened. The cargo door opens about 100-110 degrees. The picture is in figure 8-4 which is on page 8-8 of the flight manual.

Cheers,
Dave

**ktmdudeone** · October 18th, 2011, 19:35

Originally Posted by tankerguy72

9.4lbs per gallon, which would be 11,280lbs :salute:

That weight and lbs per gallon is for the old D-75F retardant. If you would like the weight and lbs per gallon for the new P-100 retardant I can get that for you.

**patful** · October 18th, 2011, 19:35

Well, I'm finally movin' on up. I just ordered a copy of FS2004 after all these years, and can't wait to see this beauty flying around in it. Keep up the good work, guys, and thanks.

**Milton Shupe** · October 18th, 2011, 19:56

Originally Posted by p3aewguy

Funny you asking that! I was looking that up today in the NATOPS manual. The passenger is hinged on the forward side to the Cargo door, which is hinged on the forward side also and is actually bolted closed. The passenger door latches open at about 90 degrees. When un-bolted the cargo door then opens and is restrained by a bar attached to the door and fuselage. So the answer is yes, the passenger door must be opened and latched before the cargo door can be opened. The cargo door opens about 100-110 degrees. The picture is in figure 8-4 which is on page 8-8 of the flight manual.

Cheers,
Dave

Ahhh, thank you Dave for doing the reading while I am buried in gmax. I animated the passenger door, but linked to the cargo door so one would have to open before the other. It works fine but one could open the cargo door and do some serious damage to the passenger door and nacelle.

Without xml controlling it, I cannot restrict the sequence of things.

**Milton Shupe** · October 18th, 2011, 19:58

Originally Posted by ktmdudeone

That weight and lbs per gallon is for the old D-75F retardant. If you would like the weight and lbs per gallon for the new P-100 retardant I can get that for you.

If not too much trouble, that would be good info to have. Thanks.

Originally Posted by patful

Well, I'm finally movin' on up. I just ordered a copy of FS2004 after all these years, and can't wait to see this beauty flying around in it. Keep up the good work, guys, and thanks.

That's great to hear! I plan however to provide FS2002 versions although in some ways constrained. So, if FS9 causes you pain, all is not lost.

**Milton Shupe** · October 18th, 2011, 20:01

Here is what I have for now for who is doing what based on my understanding of commitments.

There are open slots so if interested, let us know.

I am leaving the slots for the S2F-1 for Javis to fill as I am not sure yet what he wishes to do himself.

Note that I purposely left off all the many source data contributors trying to focus on the aircraft package contents instead.
We appreciate all the efforts of the SOH members in his thread to help pull this project off in record time.

**euroastar350** · October 19th, 2011, 00:30

Uncle Milton,

I will be honored to do the FSX conversion for the rest of the models for you. I've been on the sideline for a bit, bit I should get into the groove converting the models over for you:ernae:

**Milton Shupe** · October 19th, 2011, 04:27

Originally Posted by euroastar350

Uncle Milton,

I will be honored to do the FSX conversion for the rest of the models for you. I've been on the sideline for a bit, bit I should get into the groove converting the models over for you:ernae:

Thank you euroastar; we appreciate your efforts.