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Thread: SOH Team Project - Grumman Tracker, Trader, Tracer

  1. #726
    "Glad to hear from an expert..."

    Hardly an expert, Gaucho; just a life-long Navy fan.

    - H52
    A tad high and a tad hot is better than a tad low and a tad slow - H52

  2. #727
    I have the performance data for the E-1B but in the manual I have for the S2, performance data is not included. Currently the S2 is using the same data as the E-1B, which of course is not correct. I would expect the difference to be in the < 10% range. Even fairly large streamlined sections can have fairly low drag, for instance the floats on my plane have no more drag than the 26" goodyears (wheels).

    Waiting for some data before proceeding with a "WAG".

    Cheers: T

  3. #728

    Manuals

    Quote Originally Posted by fliger747 View Post
    I have the performance data for the E-1B but in the manual I have for the S2, performance data is not included. Currently the S2 is using the same data as the E-1B, which of course is not correct. I would expect the difference to be in the < 10% range. Even fairly large streamlined sections can have fairly low drag, for instance the floats on my plane have no more drag than the 26" goodyears (wheels).

    Waiting for some data before proceeding with a "WAG".

    Cheers: T
    MGR and Fliger747,

    Just checked and the S2F-1 manual I have (and sent to you Marcel) doesn't have the performance data. I just ordered updated manuals for the S2A/C/F (S2F-1,-2) and the S2D/E/G from Eflight manuals. I should get the download link later today or tomorrow. Fliger, pm me your email address and when I get these downloaded I'll send them to both of you.

    Dave


    Edit: Also ordered the C-1A manual. That about covers them all!

  4. #729
    Charter Member 2012 nigel richards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliger747 View Post
    I have the performance data for the E-1B but in the manual I have for the S2, performance data is not included. Currently the S2 is using the same data as the E-1B, which of course is not correct. I would expect the difference to be in the < 10% range. Even fairly large streamlined sections can have fairly low drag, for instance the floats on my plane have no more drag than the 26" goodyears (wheels).

    Waiting for some data before proceeding with a "WAG".

    Cheers: T
    Tom, you're doing a splendid job on the airfiles and have a knack of giving these aircraft the 'feel' one would expect from their layout.
    Just a couple of observations if I may;

    1. I'm having to feed a fair measure of down trim on take off for all models sofar.

    2. I have no idea re the actual prototypes but they do appear to be heavily stable in yaw.

    Cheers,
    Nigel
    Most men often say what they think!
    An honest man usually means what he says!
    A gentleman always says what he means!

    "Αίεν Υψικρατείν "

    A fool is not he who asks a simple question, but he who would simply have its asking denied. (Richards 2012)

  5. #730
    4. There is a protrusion on the lower starboard fuselage which looks like a stowed trailing wire antenna (TWA). If it is, and if you have animation tags available, would you consider animating it? That would be a "first" in FS!!! I would consider it but would need more info as to how it worked, how long it should be, etc.
    In the event a TWA is provided, you may wish to couple the data-link antenna to the TWA such that they are both deployed/stowed simultaneously. Just a thought; don't want to cause you grief!
    It is no problem but I do not know what a TWA is. :-/

    Milton, I can find no specific information on the TWA (Trailing Wire Antenna) associated with the E-1B or any other aircraft (other than Air Force One). In general, TWAs are several thousand feet in length, but of course that is not practical for FS. A length of, say, 500 ft would provide an adequate illusion. The antenna (wire) is wound on a drum within the aircraft and is reeled out by the airstream, and reeled in by an electric motor. Each operation typically takes a few minutes, depending on the length deployed. A realistic rate for a 500 ft. deployment would be 10 to 20 seconds

    The trick is that it should not trail astern horizontally, but instead should begin to gradually curve downward so that the last 10 to 20% of the wire is at an angle of about 45 degrees to the ground (that is the purpose of the drogue/weight).

    What do you think?
    - H52
    A tad high and a tad hot is better than a tad low and a tad slow - H52

  6. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye52 View Post
    4. There is a protrusion on the lower starboard fuselage which looks like a stowed trailing wire antenna (TWA). If it is, and if you have animation tags available, would you consider animating it? That would be a "first" in FS!!! I would consider it but would need more info as to how it worked, how long it should be, etc.
    In the event a TWA is provided, you may wish to couple the data-link antenna to the TWA such that they are both deployed/stowed simultaneously. Just a thought; don't want to cause you grief!
    It is no problem but I do not know what a TWA is. :-/

    Milton, I can find no specific information on the TWA (Trailing Wire Antenna) associated with the E-1B or any other aircraft (other than Air Force One). In general, TWAs are several thousand feet in length, but of course that is not practical for FS. A length of, say, 500 ft would provide an adequate illusion. The antenna (wire) is wound on a drum within the aircraft and is reeled out by the airstream, and reeled in by an electric motor. Each operation typically takes a few minutes, depending on the length deployed. A realistic rate for a 500 ft. deployment would be 10 to 20 seconds

    The trick is that it should not trail astern horizontally, but instead should begin to gradually curve downward so that the last 10 to 20% of the wire is at an angle of about 45 degrees to the ground (that is the purpose of the drogue/weight).

    What do you think?
    - H52
    H52,

    Acording to the E-1B flight manual the AN/ARC-38 HF trailing wire antenna had 4 preset extention lenghts. They were 9, 26, 45 and 65 feet. The lenght depended on the HF channel selected. The antenna was deployed when the antenna selector was placed in the trailing position automatically retracted when the antenna was set to fixed, the set was turned off or the landing gear was extended.

    There is a caution in the manual stating that the maximum airspeed for retraction was 130 knots indiated airspeed. Exceeding that could result in reel motor clutch failure and erroneous indication of retraction.

    My suggestion would be to tie it to the water rudder command or another exit command if it is decided to do this.

    Hope this helps!

    Dave

  7. #732
    I will try to implement the shorter distance 9-26 feet but no promises. We will just have to see how well it works.

    Thanks for doing the homework; I really appreciate that.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  8. #733

    Panel and Gauges Help

    Does anyone have access to any real E-1B's, S2F's, or C-1A's for some gauge pictures for reference. Although I have many cockpit pics, very few are of reference value.

    Or, do you have some good definition panel gauge photos.

    They will be a great help. I do have the layouts from the manuals already but good quality pics would be helpful.


    As I have not heard from Diegox (Diego) for 4 weeks now and no responses to my messages, I have asked Scott Thomas if he would do the panel gauge work.

    If you show up Diegox, my apologies, but I felt we needed to move forward in this area. Thanks for your offer and I know your intentions were good. Real world obligations often times change our plans.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  9. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by p3aewguy View Post
    H52,

    Acording to the E-1B flight manual the AN/ARC-38 HF trailing wire antenna had 4 preset extention lenghts. They were 9, 26, 45 and 65 feet. The lenght depended on the HF channel selected. The antenna was deployed when the antenna selector was placed in the trailing position automatically retracted when the antenna was set to fixed, the set was turned off or the landing gear was extended.

    There is a caution in the manual stating that the maximum airspeed for retraction was 130 knots indiated airspeed. Exceeding that could result in reel motor clutch failure and erroneous indication of retraction.

    My suggestion would be to tie it to the water rudder command or another exit command if it is decided to do this.

    Hope this helps! Dave
    EXCELLENT, p3aewguy! You are better than the internet! That is the info we needed. :salute:

    - H52
    A tad high and a tad hot is better than a tad low and a tad slow - H52

  10. #735
    Member gaucho_59's Avatar
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    Go to settings... where?

    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Gaucho,

    Very nice side views; beautiful work.

    To get rid of any old attachments, go to Settings top right of screen, look at the options down the left of the new screen, look for Miscellaneous, Attachments.
    You can individually select and delete any of them.
    Pray tell... Where is this "settings" option? on which page? Is it in the Manage attachments pop-up where you upload new images for a posting?

  11. #736
    Member gaucho_59's Avatar
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    A little hard on the nogging... but eventually

    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Gaucho,

    Very nice side views; beautiful work.

    To get rid of any old attachments, go to Settings top right of screen, look at the options down the left of the new screen, look for Miscellaneous, Attachments.
    You can individually select and delete any of them.

    I FINALLY GOT IT MILT!!! Thanks a lot for the advise... I was looking in the wrong place all the time...

  12. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by gaucho_59 View Post
    I FINALLY GOT IT MILT!!! Thanks a lot for the advise... I was looking in the wrong place all the time...
    LOL We must keep learning, even at our ages.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  13. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye52 View Post
    4. There is a protrusion on the lower starboard fuselage which looks like a stowed trailing wire antenna (TWA). If it is, and if you have animation tags available, would you consider animating it? That would be a "first" in FS!!! I would consider it but would need more info as to how it worked, how long it should be, etc.
    In the event a TWA is provided, you may wish to couple the data-link antenna to the TWA such that they are both deployed/stowed simultaneously. Just a thought; don't want to cause you grief!
    It is no problem but I do not know what a TWA is. :-/

    Milton, I can find no specific information on the TWA (Trailing Wire Antenna) associated with the E-1B or any other aircraft (other than Air Force One). In general, TWAs are several thousand feet in length, but of course that is not practical for FS. A length of, say, 500 ft would provide an adequate illusion. The antenna (wire) is wound on a drum within the aircraft and is reeled out by the airstream, and reeled in by an electric motor. Each operation typically takes a few minutes, depending on the length deployed. A realistic rate for a 500 ft. deployment would be 10 to 20 seconds

    The trick is that it should not trail astern horizontally, but instead should begin to gradually curve downward so that the last 10 to 20% of the wire is at an angle of about 45 degrees to the ground (that is the purpose of the drogue/weight).

    What do you think?
    - H52
    Okay, it took all day but I finally have results I am happy with. UGGHHHH!

    The right cowling is now the same as teh left with no stretching. Same bitmap but has its own.

    The fuselage and attached parts have been remapped to a higher resolution on 2048 at 8 meters instead of 12 meters. I could not get down to twice the pixels (half of 12 meters) as I could not fit even a fuselage half on it. And then had to move the inner door facings to their own map.

    Also added the TWA; interesting little challenge. I think you will like the way it wobbles and shifts on deployment.

    Now for some minor cleanup ...
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  14. #739

    Cowls, Fuselage Mapping, Scoops, TWA Done

    Whew! Long day! I think she is ready for review. Will package it up and send out to a few of you.

    Smoothie, will send you the revised templates as well.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  15. #740

    E-1B Update Link

    For you that have the alpha test version and wish to check out the updates, these are updates only to your existing package.

    http://www.flightsimonline.com/mas/E1Bupdate.zip

    Installation notes included.

    Smoothie, new templates are also included.

    EDIT: Just FYI, Monday I will get about 4 hours of work in on the S2T, then I will be entertaining company for a few days. Have fun.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  16. #741
    Thanks for the TWA, Milton. Looks very cool; I hope it is included in the update.

    - H52
    A tad high and a tad hot is better than a tad low and a tad slow - H52

  17. #742
    Charter Member 2012 nigel richards's Avatar
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    ...just trying to shed a little light.

    Most men often say what they think!
    An honest man usually means what he says!
    A gentleman always says what he means!

    "Αίεν Υψικρατείν "

    A fool is not he who asks a simple question, but he who would simply have its asking denied. (Richards 2012)

  18. #743
    Did ya see the light!! LOL That is looking amazingly bright there Sir. Nice work!

    I am curious if the light was more like a beam or more diffused. And what the beam spread angle might have been since the reflector is like a parabolic antenna (parabolic mirror), it appears that it may have been a more focused beam to reach out a mile. Maybe someone here has actually seen one of these lights in action?

    That does look awesome though Nigel. Great job!
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  19. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye52 View Post
    Thanks for the TWA, Milton. Looks very cool; I hope it is included in the update.

    - H52
    It is
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  20. #745
    Charter Member 2012 nigel richards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Did ya see the light!! LOL That is looking amazingly bright there Sir. Nice work!

    I am curious if the light was more like a beam or more diffused. And what the beam spread angle might have been since the refractor? is like a parabolic antenna, it appears that it may have been a more focused beam to reach out a mile. Maybe someone here has actually seen one of these lights in action?

    That does look awesome though Nigel. Great job!
    Thankyou Sir! The light shineth.

    Yes, I suspect the light was more like a beam, fortunately we certainly have folk here who would know. I've only managed the diffused version so far, but I'm learning...

    I'm going to try it a tab brighter; pics coming up soon.
    Most men often say what they think!
    An honest man usually means what he says!
    A gentleman always says what he means!

    "Αίεν Υψικρατείν "

    A fool is not he who asks a simple question, but he who would simply have its asking denied. (Richards 2012)

  21. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by nigel richards View Post
    Thankyou Sir! The light shineth.

    Yes, I suspect the light was more like a beam, fortunately we certainly have folk here who would know. I've only managed the diffused version so far, but I'm learning...

    I'm going to try it a tab brighter; pics coming up soon.
    I think the light projected on the water is from the texture used (named in the effect) and found in the effects/texture folder. You might check to see what texture the fx_luxbeam uses.

    EDIT: Oh, yeah! fx_beam.bmp that's the one that will melt the glass if you leave it on more than 20 seconds on the ground without the cooling effect of 130knts. Might be cool for your warm up effect you have now stay on for 10-20 seconds, then replaced by the "BEAM". You may be able to do that with the "Life" parameter on the existing, and the "Delay" parameter on the Beam. I really like the looks of what you have now. Or, we might be able to program a 2-stage 2-switch option.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  22. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    For you that have the alpha test version and wish to check out the updates, these are updates only to your existing package.

    http://www.flightsimonline.com/mas/E1Bupdate.zip

    Installation notes included.

    Smoothie, new templates are also included.

    EDIT: Just FYI, Monday I will get about 4 hours of work in on the S2T, then I will be entertaining company for a few days. Have fun.
    Take a breather Milton, you've been very busy of late! Well deserved IMHO!

    Dave

  23. #748
    Thanks Dave; trying to knock out the last few items with the S2T-CDF variant. Almost there. :salute:
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  24. #749
    Charter Member 2012 nigel richards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    I think the light projected on the water is from the texture used (named in the effect) and found in the effects/texture folder. You might check to see what texture the fx_luxbeam uses.

    EDIT: Oh, yeah! fx_beam.bmp that's the one that will melt the glass if you leave it on more than 20 seconds on the ground without the cooling effect of 130knts. Might be cool for your warm up effect you have now stay on for 10-20 seconds, then replaced by the "BEAM". You may be able to do that with the "Life" parameter on the existing, and the "Delay" parameter on the Beam. I really like the looks of what you have now. Or, we might be able to program a 2-stage 2-switch option.
    More than twenty seconds...yikes, so that's why my starboard wingtip was nearly at meltdown LOL

    If I can get the hang of this stuff, your suggestions would truly look great. I discovered an superb new program last night that allows you to watch an effect while creating it. For those interested in effects see today's thread; Putting your ideas into FX!

    larger glow...

    Attachment 49851Attachment 49852Attachment 49853Attachment 49854Attachment 49855
    Most men often say what they think!
    An honest man usually means what he says!
    A gentleman always says what he means!

    "Αίεν Υψικρατείν "

    A fool is not he who asks a simple question, but he who would simply have its asking denied. (Richards 2012)

  25. #750
    That's looking great Nigel. Thanks for your perseverance.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

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