SOH Team Project - Grumman Tracker, Trader, Tracer - Page 27
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Thread: SOH Team Project - Grumman Tracker, Trader, Tracer

  1. #651

    About wingfold...

    You are dead on about the rates being an expression of percent. 0.10 would be 10% per second, or ten seconds to fold. 0.05 would be 5% per second (20 seconds) and 0.5 would be a whopping 50% per second (2 seconds for full travel). This parameter was left out of the Container SDK, so I'm not certain if using two rates will govern right/left separately, or if it's a different rate for fold vs. unfold. I'm not on my FS rig right now so I can't test it.

    Math Edit: If the wings take 15 seconds to fold/unfold, then use the decimal value of 1/15, or 0.067 for the rate.
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  2. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Clayton View Post
    You are dead on about the rates being an expression of percent. 0.10 would be 10% per second, or ten seconds to fold. 0.05 would be 5% per second (20 seconds) and 0.5 would be a whopping 50% per second (2 seconds for full travel). This parameter was left out of the Container SDK, so I'm not certain if using two rates will govern right/left separately, or if it's a different rate for fold vs. unfold. I'm not on my FS rig right now so I can't test it.

    Math Edit: If the wings take 15 seconds to fold/unfold, then use the decimal value of 1/15, or 0.067 for the rate.
    Thanks for the clarification Tom. Yes, the two numbers govern the wings separately as I have it now. The port wing is slower by around 20 seconds in the videos I saw.

    Back many years ago, maybe '03 or '04, there was discussion about getting more smoothness on these longer time frame animations but I haven't fopund it yet.

    In the interest of smoothness, using a faster rate will definitely smooth the animations.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  3. #653

    Been testing too

    Quote Originally Posted by HorusJ View Post
    I looked and flew and looked and flew,did the VC walk-through,checked all animations in and out(in flight and on the ground)and found only one teenie-tiny problem.By the way they both fly sweeeeeeet,and that sound - WOW!
    The animation for the port(left)elevator is a little off(as seen in attached screen capture). Not a big problem,I can live with it.I wasn't sure if it had been addressed all ready.
    To all involved:
    Horus J(Joel)
    Attachment 49547
    Milton,

    In addition to the above mentioned animation on the S-2, the E-1B is missing the CSD scoops on the right side neacelles. The Late model S-2D/E/G and the E-1B's had these. The S-2A/B/C/F, C-1A and the CS2F aircraft (the short fuselage) and their sub variants did not have these. If it can be corrected, great, if not, cest la vie! I can live with it! They both fly great and the sounds are good! All the animations on the E-1B look good! This is another fantastic project!!!! I was up till 3 am puttering around in these! LOL!

    Dave

  4. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by p3aewguy View Post
    Milton,

    In addition to the above mentioned animation on the S-2, the E-1B is missing the CSD scoops on the right side neacelles. The Late model S-2D/E/G and the E-1B's had these. The S-2A/B/C/F, C-1A and the CS2F aircraft (the short fuselage) and their sub variants did not have these. If it can be corrected, great, if not, cest la vie! I can live with it! They both fly great and the sounds are good! All the animations on the E-1B look good! This is another fantastic project!!!! I was up till 3 am puttering around in these! LOL!

    Dave
    Dave, thanks for this observation. I will add the CSD scoop to the starboard nacelle of the E-1B.

    EDIT: Dave, the best I can determine, the S2F-3 had this same scoop on both nacelles, starboard side only, and the S2F-3 has two scoops, one on each nacelle. Is this the same for the E-1B?
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  5. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Dave, thanks for this observation. I will add the CSD scoop to the starboard nacelle of the E-1B.
    Milton,

    Should be on the right/ starboard side of both nacelles, just like the S-2E (S2F-3). Thanks! Was just up flying it again! LOL! Can't keep my hands off it! That huge rudder allows great engine out control, yup, been practicing emergency proceedures! Flight model seems good, for me not being a real life Stoof driver. Gonna be interesting to see what a real world Stoof driver will think about it. Great controllabilty with just a touch of "you really have to pay attention to it" thrown in. Awesome Bird!

    Dave

    Edit: That's correct. The later model Stoofs and the E-1B all had the CSD's (Constant Speed Drive for AC (alternating current) generators, which have to run at a certain rpm for frequency ,or hertz, control) to operate the higher powered ASW equipment and radars. The Early Stoofs used DC electrical power for this and did not have CSD's.

  6. #656
    Thank you Dave. These have now been added to the E-1B

    I have also corrected the elevator pivot on both the E-1B and S2F-3 as pointed out by HorusJ.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  7. #657

    Cool

    My first carrier trap in the beta-test.... already great fun!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfUFMKQ3-WA

    Marcel

  8. #658
    Cool, dont think I've ever seen the nose wheel spin freely like that after trapping on any other model.
    Been watching this one for a while, cant believe how fast its coming together

    Craig.

    ps. whos arm do the FSX guys have to twist to get that Majestic class carrier. Don't know if it would even be possible but it would fill a gap in the carriers available
    "Thou shalt maintain thine airspeed lest the ground shalt rise up and smite thee"

  9. #659
    I have been doing the flight development in FSX Accel, which is great for carrier employment. I was haveing some difficulty in having the hook engage the "cross deck pendants" so Milton and I are collaborating on adjusting the hook points.

    Cheers: Tom

  10. #660

    Tail Hook Coordinates

    These are the actual tail hook coordinates for the S2F-3 and S2T:

    S2F-3 and S2Turbo Tailhook positions at the pivot location of the tail hook:

    Length =7.428'
    Long: = -19.488'
    Vert: = -3.221'

    Since the FS2004 SDK makes no mention of the Tail Hook, I wonder if there is an assumed "angle of the dangle" since it is not specified in the cfg parameters.

    Tom says he can not get a capture with this -3.221' vertical number but seems to work with -1'.

    We are still looking at this.

    For the E-1B, the gmax coordinates for the tail hook pivot are:

    [TailHook]

    tailhook_length= 6.758 ;(feet)

    tailhook_position= -19.180, 0.0, -3.159 ;(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum

    cable_force_adjust=1.0

    Again, the vertical number may not work.
    Tom will zero in on this.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  11. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by fallenphoenix1986 View Post
    Cool, dont think I've ever seen the nose wheel spin freely like that after trapping on any other model.
    Been watching this one for a while, cant believe how fast its coming together

    Craig.

    ps. whos arm do the FSX guys have to twist to get that Majestic class carrier. Don't know if it would even be possible but it would fill a gap in the carriers available
    It has come together fast because of all the very helpful folks here doing the research, finding the reference pictures and data needed so that I could spend my 8-12 hours per day modeling. The support and involvement has been awesome.

    The nose gear is setup as non-steerable except by brakes or differential power. So as a free wheeling gear, once the aircraft is pulled backwards, the gear spins around to follow the movement.
    For those without pedals or wheel brakes, you can modify the contact point 0 as follows:

    From this: point.0 = 1.000, 14.087, 0.000, -7.668, 1950.000, 0.000, 1.050, 180.0, 0.1500, 6.470, 1.000, 6.000, 6.000, 0.000, 150.000, 150.000

    To this:
    point.0 = 1.000, 14.087, 0.000, -7.668, 1950.000, 0.000, 1.050, 45.0, 0.1500, 6.470, 1.000, 6.000, 6.000, 0.000, 150.000, 150.000

    This will eliminate the spinning gear as well as making the nose gear steerable.

    EDIT: Attaching pictures illustrating tail hook coordinates at the pivot point.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  12. #662

    S2Turbo Performance Data Needed

    Does anyone have performance data for the S2T military version? That would be a great help.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  13. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Does anyone have performance data for the S2T military version? That would be a great help.
    Milton,

    Here's a little info. I'm still searching.

    The S-2T were all converted from the S-2E or S-2G while they were assigned to the ROCAF. The original plan, valued at $260 million USD, called for conversion of 32 S-2T (from 25 S-2E and 7 S-2G). Two S-2G were first sent to US for modification to the S-2T standards by Grumman (later Northrop Grumman). The first flight took place in July 1988 and the two converted aircraft returned to Taiwan in August 1991. The rest of the fleet were then converted in Taiwan using kits supplied by the contractors. The S-2T conversion program turned out to be a political scandal and it was probably for this reason that only 27 aircraft has been converted. (In 2001, eight ROCAF officials involved in the S-2T scandal were impeached, including former ROCAF CinC General Kuo.) The most significant improvement of the S-2T over the old S-2E/G is that the original Curtiss-Wright R-1820-82 piston engines, each rated 1141 kW (1530 shp), have been replaced by two Garret TPE-331-15AW turboprops, each rated 1227 kW (1645 shp), with four-blade propellers, resulting in an increase of 500 kg in payload. New mission equipment includes the AN/AQS-92F digital sonobuoy processor, A/NARR-84 99-channel sonobuoy receiver, Litton AN/APS-504 radar, AN/ASQ-504 MAD, and AN/AAS-40 FLIR (replacing the search light on the wing).

  14. #664

    CDF S2T sheet

    Milton,

    Here's a CDF sheet with a few general specs.

    Dave

  15. #665
    Milton:

    At least in FSX I don't get any hook engagement unless I reduce the minus verticle value of the hook to 1.8 ft or so. Anyone have any experience with this in FS9, as I don't have any arrestable carriers in that sim anymore.

    Cheers: T

  16. #666
    What are the hook settings that Milton has, I do'nt have the model so can't really check with show markers, I am using FSX

  17. #667

    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Does anyone have performance data for the S2T military version? That would be a great help.
    From JANE's 1994-5:

    Marsh S-2F3T:
    1227 kW (1645 shp) Garrett TPE331-15AW
    Hartzel 5 blade prop 9ft 7 in
    max useable fuel 518 US Gal (1960 liters)
    Empty weight: 6282 kg
    MTOW: 13.163 kg
    Max payload: 6881 kg
    Wingload: 286.6 kg/m2

    Max speed sealevel: 260 kts
    Max speed at alt: 296 kts
    Ceiling: 24.000 ft
    Range (no reserve): 647 nm (1200 km).

    Grumman S-2T Turbo Tracker:
    1227 kW (1645 shp) Garrett TPE331-15AW
    Dowty advanced technology four-blade prop
    Max speed: 270 kts at 5000 ft

    Regards,

    Marcel

    PS.
    Just found the offical FAA spec on the Marsh version, you can get it here:
    http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...FILE/A51NM.pdf

  18. #668
    Milton is it correct that i see no spinning props?


  19. #669
    Attachment 49631[QUOTE=mgr;633492]Milton is it correct that i see no spinning props?

    QUOTE]

    Hmmm, looks like I may have left the spinprop bmp out of the S2F-3 package. You can copy that from the E-1B package.

    EDIT: Oh wait! You are in the E-1B. Then you must be in FSX. Let me adjust that for FSX.
    EDIT2: Hmmm, I see the prop fine in FSX and FS9 so I do not know what you have there. The spinprop.bmp is the texture in question. Check that you have it, that it is 32-bit, and the alpha channel is near black with a faint blurred prop inset.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  20. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Attachment 49631

    Hmmm, looks like I may have left the spinprop bmp out of the S2F-3 package. You can copy that from the E-1B package.

    EDIT: Oh wait! You are in the E-1B. Then you must be in FSX. Let me adjust that for FSX.
    Flying in FS9 (FS2004) not FSX also i do have the "spinprop.bmp" texture in the texture folder.

    Marcel

    EDIT: The alfa-layer is completely black (color 5,5,5), not faint blurred prop inset.

  21. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    What are the hook settings that Milton has, I do'nt have the model so can't really check with show markers, I am using FSX
    Fliger747 is doing the flight model and is testing the effectiveness of the new coordinates and lengths I posted on the previous page.

    Check your PM's please.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  22. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by mgr View Post
    Flying in FS9 (FS2004) not FSX also i do have the "spinprop.bmp" texture in the texture folder.

    Marcel

    EDIT: The alfa-layer is completely black (color 5,5,5), not faint blurred prop inset.
    Hmmm, that must have gotten changed somehow. Borrow the texture from the A26B/C or any 3 bladed aircraft and rename to spinprop.bmp.

    EDIT: And, thanks for the performance data from "Jane's"
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  23. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Hmmm, that must have gotten changed somehow. Borrow the texture from the A26B/C or any 3 bladed aircraft and rename to spinprop.bmp.

    EDIT: And, thanks for the performance data from "Jane's"
    Works, got the texture of your Grizzly :-) btw seems the "faulty" texture is also on the Tiger Cat so far i could check...

    Marcel

  24. #674
    I get the hook to engage with a verticle entry of -1.8 in FSX Accel. Interesting that on my laptop I get the black disks for props but works just fine on my "Mainframe".

    Thanks for the info on the turbine aircraft. Empty weight seems a bit low? Any info on the empty weight of the military aircraft?

    Cheers: T

  25. #675

    Working on the S2T CDF Variant

    Got the basics done, now to clean up and add the small elements, then map the fuselage and nacelles for textures.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

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