SOH Team Project - Grumman Tracker, Trader, Tracer

**lazarus** · September 27th, 2011, 11:29

Bugger. That was not supposed to be in there. I'm going to have to ask that any one who saw this remove and eat their hard drive straight away. National security, you know!

Just what Harry said. Back in the day every time I'd see some kind of cheepo gag box like that I'd snap up a few and velcro 'em in to the cockpit someplace out of the way. A stress reliever for the guys. The bird dog and Securite Civil guys really liked 'em because they were fitted with a whelan siren/loudhailer and could broadcast sound effects in flight- zooooommm-ratta-tatta-tatta-boom-shut up Beavis! comming from the airplane as it ripped past. Good clean fun untill the wheels up stairs caught wind of it

**tankerguy72** · September 27th, 2011, 13:26

Heres some pictures from Steve Whitby of the S-2As from Hemet. I guess they depict life and death

Attachment 49091 Attachment 49092

**andersel** · September 27th, 2011, 13:42

Originally Posted by lazarus

Bugger. That was not supposed to be in there. I'm going to have to ask that any one who saw this remove and eat their hard drive straight away. National security, you know!

Just what Harry said. Back in the day every time I'd see some kind of cheepo gag box like that I'd snap up a few and velcro 'em in to the cockpit someplace out of the way. A stress reliever for the guys. The bird dog and Securite Civil guys really liked 'em because they were fitted with a whelan siren/loudhailer and could broadcast sound effects in flight- zooooommm-ratta-tatta-tatta-boom-shut up Beavis! comming from the airplane as it ripped past. Good clean fun untill the wheels up stairs caught wind of it

lazarus - Okay, I as you requested, I ate BOTH of my hard drives. I thought about it for a few minutes and then went ahead and ate the rest of my computer, too. A couple of questions: 1. Now how do I run FS9? and 2. Do you ave any TUMS?

**lazarus** · September 27th, 2011, 15:27

Originally Posted by andersel

lazarus - Okay, I as you requested, I ate BOTH of my hard drives. I thought about it for a few minutes and then went ahead and ate the rest of my computer, too. A couple of questions: 1. Now how do I run FS9? and 2. Do you ave any TUMS?

I know where the boot disc goes in. You won't like it.....

Oh, man. you made coffee come out my nose!

**simkid22** · September 27th, 2011, 16:33

To prove I didn't go AWOL lol work is getting slowed down by real world stuff but its progressing. Paint kit is really close guys!

Attachment 49113 Attachment 49114

**Milton Shupe** · September 27th, 2011, 16:39

Thanks for the update on the paint kit. It seems everything is coming together about the same time. We appreciate your efforts.

**hawkeye52** · September 27th, 2011, 18:10

Originally Posted by ColoKent

Milton,

Will the S-2T be the modernized ASW variant that was flown by Argentina?

http://www.airfighters.com/photo/256.../0700-2-AS-21/

Hope so!

........and Taiwan!

- H52

**Milton Shupe** · September 28th, 2011, 06:50

http://www.aewa.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4936

Do you have one?

**HorusJ** · September 28th, 2011, 07:43

Mine would be these simply because of the colors, US Navy trainer scheme(my favorite military AC types(trainers)).
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...meda_1978.jpeg

I'm hoping/wishing to see these colors on the projects Tracker in the future

Horus J

**johndetrick** · September 28th, 2011, 07:59

You can see where my interest lies....

**MaddogK** · September 28th, 2011, 08:58

Always been drawn to anything 'Big-E' related:
Attachment 49145

...But the Lexington scheme is wonderful !!!
http://www.s2ftracker.com/images/Pal...frt-128w-1.jpg

**fliger747** · September 28th, 2011, 10:18

Interesting how the fuselage is bulged behind the cockpit windows to fair in with the window, as opposed to the earlier style.

T

**Milton Shupe** · September 28th, 2011, 11:12

Originally Posted by fliger747

Interesting how the fuselage is bulged behind the cockpit windows to fair in with the window, as opposed to the earlier style.

T

Yes, Jan Visser reminds me as well :-)

Great shots everyone. Keep them coming to feed the repaint ideas.

**tankerguy72** · September 28th, 2011, 11:26

Originally Posted by HorusJ

Mine would be these simply because of the colors, US Navy trainer scheme(my favorite military AC types(trainers)).
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...meda_1978.jpeg

I'm hoping/wishing to see these colors on the projects Tracker in the future

Horus J

I vote for this picture! Its beautiful!

**johndetrick** · September 28th, 2011, 12:06

That's the US-2A variant. Basically a S-2A made into a utility aircraft.

**hawkeye52** · September 28th, 2011, 12:31

Originally Posted by fliger747

Interesting how the fuselage is bulged behind the cockpit windows to fair in with the window, as opposed to the earlier style.

T

If u are referring to the "Trader" pic posted by Johndetrick, take a look at the bottom of the fuselage: it is flat, as opposed to the Trader's rounded belly. Also, note the presence of the crew entry door on the starboard side. All of which leads me to suspect that it is in reality a converted -1 Stoof. All Stoofs had the side cockpit window fairing which extends back to the wing leading edge.

- H52

**lazarus** · September 28th, 2011, 12:38

A bunch of color profiles from squadron-signal.

**hawkeye52** · September 28th, 2011, 13:21

Lottsa C-1A / TF-1 pix here » http://www.google.com/search?q=c-1a+...ient=firefox-a

Two are shown below:
Attachment 49152 Attachment 49151

**lazarus** · September 28th, 2011, 13:26

Just some general tidbits.

'All Stoofs had the side cockpit window fairing which extends back to the wing leading edge.'

The hull is bulged from the lap line up, rather than a fairing for the front windows, so the GIB's had a bit of elbow room, as one sat on top of the torp bay, and the other sat on a black box bay.The machine has a rather clever structure, not really evident externally. All the gear in a Tracker was stuffed in from under the wing forward to the cockpit aft bulkhead. A lot of it. All that was in the back was the radome gear and MAD boom, a couple of aerials, the SERA actuator , bumper wheel and hook/snubber gear, fairly light stuff, because of the weight of all the mission equipment forward. It was the devils own time to keep the Cof G in the right place when converted to air tanker- and the Turbocat resorted to some really hairy messures to keep C of G. Pointy nose to hide the batteries under, and a machined steel ring on the end of the engine mount truss around the engine that was 7 inches thick and about the same deep for ballast, skid instead of bumper wheel; a mod that was applied to the piston cats latter. They even asked Grummans if the shot-put dampner could be ground off, which is when we found out about the structural resonance thing. Even then, the C of G range is short.If you peck the brakes too hard, the nose gear rebound will thump the bumper on the ground with a hell of a bang. Big trim change when the gear cycles, too. The aircraft has rather a clever shrink link to compress the main gear struts as they retract to keep the CG shift managable, and the nacelles short with space for the sonoboy launchers.( And if the link bolt shears, the strut bangs out to full extension and jams the wheel against the bulkhead, nothing except deflating the strut will shake it loose.) Even a couple of inches helped. I think the only other airplane I'd ever seen thats as cleverly packaged- and even more tightly packed, is the S-3.
Looks fantastic Gents!

**Milton Shupe** · September 28th, 2011, 13:28

Originally Posted by hawkeye52

... snipped... take a look at the bottom of the fuselage: it is flat, as opposed to the Trader's rounded belly. ... snipped ...- H52

I thought that might be the case; it really urks me that I have read no mention of this in any of the "differences" docs or websites, and it doesn't show clearly on the 3-views.
After all the hours I now have in the S2F-3, essentially done for my part, it seems that I need to rebuild the fuselage to include the flatter bottom and bulged top, and therefore the interior-vc, windows, doors, animations, and remap it all.
This is very frustrating.

I guess the good news is that I haven't sent the texture templates out to the painters yet.

**hawkeye52** · September 28th, 2011, 13:53

Attached is a picture of a relatively-rare S2F-2, the one with the bulged weapons bay for a nuke. I took the pic at a 1995 Stoof auction at one of the scrap dealers which adjoin D-M AFB in Tucson. Several Stoofs were sold that day including two to a Canadian who planned to use them for fisheries patrol sponsored by the (Canadian) government. As I recall, the top bid was 35,000 USD. So, for the (1995) price of a couple of plain minivans, you could've had your very own Stoof!

There are many VERY colorful liveries for the US-2C, the utility conversion of the S2F-2.
Attachment 49155
BTW, those auctions are still conducted every few months.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

- H52

**hawkeye52** · September 28th, 2011, 14:02

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

.....After all the hours I now have in the S2F-3, essentially done for my part, it seems that I need to rebuild the fuselage to include the flatter bottom and bulged top....

Milton, you modeled the E-1B* with a rounded bottom and the S2F with a flat bottom, right? I don't follow your comment.

- H52

* Which has essentially the same hull as the C-1A / TF-1 Trader

**hawkeye52** · September 28th, 2011, 14:09

Originally Posted by lazarus

Just some general tidbits.

'All Stoofs had the side cockpit window fairing which extends back to the wing leading edge.'

The hull is bulged from the lap line up, rather than a fairing for the front windows,

Valid clarification, Lazarus. Poor choice of words on my part.

- H52

**nigel richards** · September 28th, 2011, 14:10

There's nothing worse, psychologically speaking, than having to remake something which we have already put so much into.
Been down that road more times than I wish to recall.

Take strength and heart Milton; Your work on this project is truly outstanding.

< frappacino's on me!

**Milton Shupe** · September 28th, 2011, 14:24

I flattened the botton from the side view but it is not as flat as the S2F-1/2/3 as I scrutinize the pictures now.

I may have to allow the bottom go as is. I have looked at the upper fuselage bulge based on Jan Visser's comments. I invested 4 hours on a trial to see what I could do. (See attached and note the old curvature from the inside parts vs the exterior) Probably another six-eight hours I could get the bulge correct (whatever that means with no meaningful data to measure against) on the exterior model. The real pain is the cockpit inside, redoing the windows and overhead, and remapping the cockpit. That was an 8-hour job the first go-around.