SOH Team Project - Grumman Tracker, Trader, Tracer - Page 2
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Thread: SOH Team Project - Grumman Tracker, Trader, Tracer

  1. #26
    Charter Member 2012 nigel richards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG43 View Post
    :salute:

    Feeling quite useless. I shall just stand on the sideline and wave a flag occasionally.
    No chance, Brains!

    Any chance of knocking up a list for me on other aircraft sharing the same engines as the Tracker/Trader Andy?
    Most men often say what they think!
    An honest man usually means what he says!
    A gentleman always says what he means!

    "Αίεν Υψικρατείν "

    A fool is not he who asks a simple question, but he who would simply have its asking denied. (Richards 2012)

  2. #27
    Do we still need interior/cockpit pictures?
    I'll visit the Aviodrome museum this month.

    Cheers, Rob
    Dutch National Aviation Theme Park and Museum.
    No DC3 without the DC2

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by nigel richards View Post
    No chance, Brains!

    Any chance of knocking up a list for me on other aircraft sharing the same engines as the Tracker/Trader Andy?
    It used the Wright R-1820 (specifically the R-1820-82WA); the R-1820 was used on everything from the Brewster Buffalo to the B-17 to the Sikorsky H-34/S-58!!


    The power output of the -82WA was 1525 hp, which made it the most powerful member of the family; probably nearest to that in output (and, I guess, noise, which is what you are looking for) would have been the -76 (used on the Dakota), the -86 (used on the T-28) and the -74W (used on the Ryan Fireball). The -97 used on the B-17G was less powerful, at 1200 hp.

    A couple of videos for you:





    stansdds, the Argentinian Navy still operates Trackers (albeit an S-2T variant) and I believe similar aircraft are still operated in Taiwan; and the Brazilian Navy has just recently bought 8 C-1 Traders, to be used for COD and in-flight refuelling, and is (I believe) buying ex-Uruguyan Trackers to be modernised and operated from the São Paulo. For a 60 year old design, that is far from shabby. :salute:
    Andy

  4. #29
    Charter Member 2012 nigel richards's Avatar
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    That's some very useful input there Brains! Always there when it matters most.

    Knew I could count on you Andy, thanks buddy. :salute:
    Most men often say what they think!
    An honest man usually means what he says!
    A gentleman always says what he means!

    "Αίεν Υψικρατείν "

    A fool is not he who asks a simple question, but he who would simply have its asking denied. (Richards 2012)

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by robcap View Post
    Do we still need interior/cockpit pictures?
    I'll visit the Aviodrome museum this month.

    Cheers, Rob
    Hi Rob,

    We can use all the interior pictures we can find. I have a few from an S2F-2 after it had been "re-purposed" but that's it.

    Thank you

    Are you interested in doing the interior model?
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG43 View Post
    :salute:

    Feeling quite useless. I shall just stand on the sideline and wave a flag occasionally.
    Andy, if there is a way you would like to participate, please make it known. I apologize that I am unfamiliar with everyones interest and skills. Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by JDTinballs View Post
    If there is anything I can do just yell.

    Jamie
    Jamie, I always can count on you to jump in with help. Feel free to contribute anyway you wish.

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by stansdds View Post
    This would certainly be an interesting addition to the FS fleet of aircraft. I remember seeing these in USN service back in the 70's and 80's. Now the remaining ones are in fire fighting service and some are on the warbird circuit.
    Hopefully, we can have an example available for the fire fighting interests.

    Thanks for the interest.


    Meanwhile, I am still pushing verticies around shaping the fuselage ... tedious but rewarding work.Attachment 45296
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  7. #32
    I do have some interior shots of a exCDF aircraft if that would help anyone.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by BillgjCook View Post
    I do have some interior shots of a exCDF aircraft if that would help anyone.
    Thank you Bill. Any additional reference material would be helpful. Can you upload them somewhere and shoot me a link?

    Thanks
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  9. #34

  10. #35
    いや~まいった!
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    This is an exciting project! I'm always happy to see Milton's works.

    JMSDF had used S-2 Tracker in the 1980s, and so this will become a welcome member of my sim, and I become very excited to think about painting many, many JMSDF liveries for this future masterpiece! :salute:
    日本頑張って!
    この飛行機野郎からで~す
    春日部市、埼玉県、日本


  11. #36
    SOH-CM-2023 euroastar350's Avatar
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    Good start Uncle Milton. Can't wait to turn this one into native FSX for ya

    I'm with the FAA and I'm here to help you.....................Now gimme a hug!

  12. #37
    Nice link!
    My computer: ABS Gladiator Gaming PC featuring an Intel 10700F CPU, EVGA CLC-240 AIO cooler (dead fans replaced with Noctua fans), Asus Tuf Gaming B460M Plus motherboard, 16GB DDR4-3000 RAM, 1 TB NVMe SSD, EVGA RTX3070 FTW3 video card, dead EVGA 750 watt power supply replaced with Antec 900 watt PSU.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by stansdds View Post
    Nice link!
    Thank You, I took a trip to Columbia Airport California for there little airshow.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by euroastar350 View Post
    Good start Uncle Milton. Can't wait to turn this one into native FSX for ya
    Me either

    Well, the embryo is taking shape but the fuselage shaping Attachment 45416has a long way to go yet.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  15. #40
    Geez! The shading looks great! :salute:
    Regards,
    Robert

  16. #41
    Member gaucho_59's Avatar
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    Embriology....

    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Me either

    Well, the embryo is taking shape but the fuselage shaping Attachment 45416has a long way to go yet.
    A very welcome addition... hope to see it soon...
    If you can use my services in texturing... let me know...
    I think you are familiar with the kind of work I do...
    if not... visit: http://westwood.fortunecity.com/chanel/132/index.html

  17. #42
    This is looking very good Milton! Awesome job.
    "If three-holers are gas guzzlers, why are there four-holers now???"
    "But what do i know? I'm just the 800 pound guerrilla in the room."

    Fire! Fire! Your pants better not be on fire....

  18. #43

    Icon5

    WOWWWOOOOWWWWWOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!!!

    Attachment 45426


  19. #44
    Member gaucho_59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaucho_59 View Post
    A very welcome addition... hope to see it soon...
    If you can use my services in texturing... let me know...
    I think you are familiar with the kind of work I do...
    if not... visit: http://westwood.fortunecity.com/chanel/132/index.html
    Here is a copy of an old S2 texture I was updating as I read your news... as you can see... my remake of the fuselage does shape nicely... [the original texture was flat colors... very amenable to repainting but unfortunately the tail assembly has some built in shadings that make it look awfully "bulky" and impossible to correct by repainting...]

    Attachment 45439

  20. #45
    Member gaucho_59's Avatar
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    My question...

    Quote Originally Posted by gaucho_59 View Post
    Here is a copy of an old S2 texture I was updating as I read your news... as you can see... my remake of the fuselage does shape nicely... [the original texture was flat colors... very amenable to repainting but unfortunately the tail assembly has some built in shadings that make it look awfully "bulky" and impossible to correct by repainting...]

    Attachment 45439
    I noticed that in your initial postings your "embrionic" model has some built in shadings on the fuselage...
    Now... My question (which I somehow muffed not including it in my posting above) is:
    in many models the flying surfaces (especially Ito's) fins, empennages, etc. appear too bulky and out of context with perspective... but being "built in" they cannot be changed... CAN THE SHADINGS IN THE MODEL BE RENDERED SO VERY LIGHTLY AS TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO "ACCURIZE" THEM IN THE PAINTING AND/OR REPAINTING OF THE ACTUAL TEXTURES?

  21. #46
    Gaucho,

    The Embryo above is a GMax render, shading in sim will be quite different. I'm wondering if what your talking about is to do with smoothing groups, it's common to apply smoothing to objects, such as wings, control surfaces, etc. This is fine until you apply the same smoothing to a sharp edge on the item, ie. the end plate of a flying surface. Now this should be a sharp edge as in reality it isa smooth surface with the wing. If you apply smoothing to the whole elevator, let's say, in Gmax, it will attempt to round off those edges, hence you get odd shadows round the edges that should be flat.

    hope that makes sense, it is a hard thing to get right. Examples with smoothing groups normal and fixed.

    Attachment 45445Attachment 45446

    Jamie

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by gaucho_59 View Post
    I noticed that in your initial postings your "embrionic" model has some built in shadings on the fuselage...
    Now... My question (which I somehow muffed not including it in my posting above) is:
    in many models the flying surfaces (especially Ito's) fins, empennages, etc. appear too bulky and out of context with perspective... but being "built in" they cannot be changed... CAN THE SHADINGS IN THE MODEL BE RENDERED SO VERY LIGHTLY AS TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO "ACCURIZE" THEM IN THE PAINTING AND/OR REPAINTING OF THE ACTUAL TEXTURES?
    There are no gmax applied materials or textures here. What you see is a gmax rendering of sorts with only colors used to help along the design effort. An aircraft model surface mapping will eventually occur to provide a starting point for a paint kit to be done by "Smoothie". After the paint kit is completed, it will be available to all repainters.
    I do not "colorize" objects in gmax; all parts will be textured externally.

    Thanks Jamie for your explanation as well.

    I have worked all day on revamping the nose and windscreen, side window and eyebrow trying to get some satisfaction from among the 5-6 different 3-views and real world pictures and get the "face" right.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  23. #48
    She's looking great already Milton, looking forwards to getting that Paintkit started and then sent out to the other painters

    as always, "Smoothie Standing By!" :salute:

  24. #49
    Member gaucho_59's Avatar
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    Exactly on the nose...

    Quote Originally Posted by JDTinballs View Post
    Gaucho,

    The Embryo above is a GMax render, shading in sim will be quite different. I'm wondering if what your talking about is to do with smoothing groups, it's common to apply smoothing to objects, such as wings, control surfaces, etc. This is fine until you apply the same smoothing to a sharp edge on the item, ie. the end plate of a flying surface. Now this should be a sharp edge as in reality it isa smooth surface with the wing. If you apply smoothing to the whole elevator, let's say, in Gmax, it will attempt to round off those edges, hence you get odd shadows round the edges that should be flat.

    hope that makes sense, it is a hard thing to get right. Examples with smoothing groups normal and fixed.

    Attachment 45445Attachment 45446

    Jamie
    Yes indeed... the second one look ok and can be shaped by texturing... whereas the first example... has an undesirable shadowing close to the edge of the flap... that no matter what you do.. still shows through the texturing...
    Thanks a lot... I am a graphics artist foremostly... and never have attempted doing a wire model... Just noticed though... that many a fine model's appearance is ruined by those odd, blunting shades...
    Thanks a lot for the know-how...
    I can see though, that it can be done as in the second picture and that is quite acceptable...
    Can't hardly wait to see this model "in the flesh"... the old one I am reworking the textures is quite a nice model were it not for this problem... excellent wing-folding operation, lndg gear retraction, etc. and lends itself to a nice refinishing... as you can see by the wheel covers I redid, and the access door...(unfortunately it does not open)...
    Another problem I have noticed is the shadow of the aircraft (not on this model) sometimes shows the glasswork where it should be just a dark shadow... what is that due to? (I guess I am overtaxing you experts with questions... but if you care to clear this thing too.. I'd appreciate it... I think I am gettting brave enough to attempt doing some model... completely... but not rightaway... need to get some experience first with a construction program)

  25. #50
    First cut at the Natops radome ...Attachment 45531
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

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