SOH Team Project - Grumman Tracker, Trader, Tracer

[hawkeye52]

Interesting how the fuselage is bulged behind the cockpit windows to fair in with the window, as opposed to the earlier style.

T

If u are referring to the "Trader" pic posted by Johndetrick, take a look at the bottom of the fuselage: it is flat, as opposed to the Trader's rounded belly. Also, note the presence of the crew entry door on the starboard side. All of which leads me to suspect that it is in reality a converted -1 Stoof. All Stoofs had the side cockpit window fairing which extends back to the wing leading edge.

- H52

[lazarus]

A bunch of color profiles from squadron-signal.

[hawkeye52]

Lottsa C-1A / TF-1 pix here » http://www.google.com/search?q=c-1a+...ient=firefox-a

Two are shown below:
Attachment 49152Attachment 49151

[lazarus]

Just some general tidbits.

'All Stoofs had the side cockpit window fairing which extends back to the wing leading edge.'

The hull is bulged from the lap line up, rather than a fairing for the front windows, so the GIB's had a bit of elbow room, as one sat on top of the torp bay, and the other sat on a black box bay.The machine has a rather clever structure, not really evident externally. All the gear in a Tracker was stuffed in from under the wing forward to the cockpit aft bulkhead. A lot of it. All that was in the back was the radome gear and MAD boom, a couple of aerials, the SERA actuator , bumper wheel and hook/snubber gear, fairly light stuff, because of the weight of all the mission equipment forward. It was the devils own time to keep the Cof G in the right place when converted to air tanker- and the Turbocat resorted to some really hairy messures to keep C of G. Pointy nose to hide the batteries under, and a machined steel ring on the end of the engine mount truss around the engine that was 7 inches thick and about the same deep for ballast, skid instead of bumper wheel; a mod that was applied to the piston cats latter. They even asked Grummans if the shot-put dampner could be ground off, which is when we found out about the structural resonance thing. Even then, the C of G range is short.If you peck the brakes too hard, the nose gear rebound will thump the bumper on the ground with a hell of a bang. Big trim change when the gear cycles, too. The aircraft has rather a clever shrink link to compress the main gear struts as they retract to keep the CG shift managable, and the nacelles short with space for the sonoboy launchers.( And if the link bolt shears, the strut bangs out to full extension and jams the wheel against the bulkhead, nothing except deflating the strut will shake it loose.) Even a couple of inches helped. I think the only other airplane I'd ever seen thats as cleverly packaged- and even more tightly packed, is the S-3.
Looks fantastic Gents!

[Milton Shupe]

... snipped... take a look at the bottom of the fuselage: it is flat, as opposed to the Trader's rounded belly. ... snipped ...- H52

I thought that might be the case; it really urks me that I have read no mention of this in any of the "differences" docs or websites, and it doesn't show clearly on the 3-views.
After all the hours I now have in the S2F-3, essentially done for my part, it seems that I need to rebuild the fuselage to include the flatter bottom and bulged top, and therefore the interior-vc, windows, doors, animations, and remap it all.
This is very frustrating.

I guess the good news is that I haven't sent the texture templates out to the painters yet.

[hawkeye52]

Attached is a picture of a relatively-rare S2F-2, the one with the bulged weapons bay for a nuke. I took the pic at a 1995 Stoof auction at one of the scrap dealers which adjoin D-M AFB in Tucson. Several Stoofs were sold that day including two to a Canadian who planned to use them for fisheries patrol sponsored by the (Canadian) government. As I recall, the top bid was 35,000 USD. So, for the (1995) price of a couple of plain minivans, you could've had your very own Stoof!

There are many VERY colorful liveries for the US-2C, the utility conversion of the S2F-2.
Attachment 49155
BTW, those auctions are still conducted every few months.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

- H52

[hawkeye52]

.....After all the hours I now have in the S2F-3, essentially done for my part, it seems that I need to rebuild the fuselage to include the flatter bottom and bulged top....

Milton, you modeled the E-1B* with a rounded bottom and the S2F with a flat bottom, right? I don't follow your comment.

- H52

* Which has essentially the same hull as the C-1A / TF-1 Trader

[hawkeye52]

Just some general tidbits.

'All Stoofs had the side cockpit window fairing which extends back to the wing leading edge.'

The hull is bulged from the lap line up, rather than a fairing for the front windows,

Valid clarification, Lazarus. Poor choice of words on my part.

- H52

[nigel richards]

There's nothing worse, psychologically speaking, than having to remake something which we have already put so much into.
Been down that road more times than I wish to recall.

Take strength and heart Milton; Your work on this project is truly outstanding. < frappacino's on me!

[Milton Shupe]

I flattened the botton from the side view but it is not as flat as the S2F-1/2/3 as I scrutinize the pictures now.

I may have to allow the bottom go as is. I have looked at the upper fuselage bulge based on Jan Visser's comments. I invested 4 hours on a trial to see what I could do. (See attached and note the old curvature from the inside parts vs the exterior) Probably another six-eight hours I could get the bulge correct (whatever that means with no meaningful data to measure against) on the exterior model. The real pain is the cockpit inside, redoing the windows and overhead, and remapping the cockpit. That was an 8-hour job the first go-around.

[hawkeye52]

.....it seems that I need to rebuild the fuselage to include the flatter bottom and bulged top, and....

OK, I guess by the "bulged top" you mean what I referred to as the "fairings" behind the side-cockpit-windows? Since you are not modeling the interior (beyond the cockpit), can't you simply add a fairing to the already-constructed fuselage?

- H52

[hawkeye52]

A bunch of color profiles from squadron-signal.

Lazarus, I've D/L'd the Profiles Zip file five times and it always cuts off at 6 MB rather than continue to the full 10.4 MB.

Is anyone else having this problem?

If so, can you re-upload the file, please?

- H52

[andersel]

I know where the boot disc goes in. You won't like it.....

Oh, man. you made coffee come out my nose!

Lazarus - I realize that we hardly know each other, but, really?

[p3aewguy]

I thought that might be the case; it really urks me that I have read no mention of this in any of the "differences" docs or websites, and it doesn't show clearly on the 3-views.
After all the hours I now have in the S2F-3, essentially done for my part, it seems that I need to rebuild the fuselage to include the flatter bottom and bulged top, and therefore the interior-vc, windows, doors, animations, and remap it all.
This is very frustrating.

I guess the good news is that I haven't sent the texture templates out to the painters yet.

Milton,

I found a brief reference to it on the Tailhook Topics blog as follows. "The TF-1 had a deeper and wider fuselage than the S2F-1 but shared its wing and vertical fin/rudder. It had the same horizontal tail as the S2F-2 and -3. One result of using the S2F wing is that there is no deice boot where the searchlight was located on the ASW aircraft" The E-1 was derived from the TF-1 (C-1A).

The blogs link is http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2...more-time.html

This is but one entry pertaining to the Stoof and it's progeny.

Save your current model to be shortened and used as the basis for the C-1A!

I have posted a comment on that blog to try and find out how much of a difference between the two. If I find out I'll post the info.

I thought it looked a little round and smooth but wasn't sure from the views. Don't be discouraged, this is a fantastic project!

Dave

[Willy]

Hawkeye posted this picture of my favorite Trader. But then I got a ride in it just before it's retirement to the Naval Aviation Museum. When one talks of the Lexington's Trader, this is the one that I think of.