Black Widow to be used in the RTW Race... BUT!!!

[warchild]

Ok, guys.. I just had a meeting with the Widow team and Tako Kichi and we made the decision to release an "alpha" version of the P-61 to the general public as a demonstrator. Admittedly, this is to allow the widow to fly next to Miltons TigerCat in the round the orld race.. But we need to know exactly what any pilots looking to fly it would need.. As it stands, there is no throttle assembly or yoke assembly, but there are enough gauges to accurately fly it.. Top speed on the bird is 366 mph in sustained flight with bursts up to 421 mph using a supercharger, and 500 mph in dives possible..
Since this will be a demonstrator and not a complete aircraft, we ( the team ) need to know what you pilots who are considering racing this thing, need to have to race it..
Let me know ok?? we have three weeks to release it..
Pam

[Milton Shupe]

Hi Pam,

That is a generous offer. Are you aware that whatever is used must be released to the general public at least 2 weeks prior to the race, therefore making it available to all sites and participants involved in the race. If you can do that and all the aircraft specs and performance tests pass the race committees muster, then you are a "go" for RTWR use.

As to your question, generally they prefer to have an open design panel to use the gauges they like for race setup. This may make it easier to deliver. Both a 2D and VC panel should be "editable".

[warchild]

Thanks Milton.. The 2D will be editable, but the VC is locked into the model file and uneditable.. Not too worried though. if the P-61 isnt accepted, i'll be flying your tiger .. We're scheduling releasse for late january to meet the two week deadline.. Thats part becausse we need the time and part because its a good strategy game wise... :;chuckles:; Guess i'm a little more competitive than i normally admit too .. I want SOh to win and between your airplane and ours, we have two long range hot rods that could offset the balance of the race..

[Milton Shupe]

The F7F-3 I released is really an SOH member beta for the rest of the world. The final release to AVSIM and Flightsim will be late January as well. Hopefully we will have any kinks worked out so the masses can be happy with her.

I see no reason why the 61 shouldn't be accepted; performance specs is the key to acceptance. VSpeeds, weights, and fuel consumption must be realistic within 5% I think.

[warchild]

Like the F7f, the P-61 release will be an Alpha test release. I'm afraid theres no way for us to have a complete aircraft before march or april even.. I've got my fingers crossed that the commitee will allow a pre beta release to be used..
i compared you tiger with the widow and the two run very close for speed.. Because of her weight, the widow is much faster in a dive, but other than that, they're both very close.. The tiger is easier to land, and has a faster bank rate, but the widows weight allows her to maintain momentum for a much longer period of time, allowing for high speed runs over 400 mph for a longer distance.. altogether, between the two, we would have a winning combination..


Addendum::
arrrgh... I'm not a defeatest, but seeing as Miltons release at the end of january will be an RTM and ours pretty much an soh member alpha for the world as Milton named it , i have my doubts about the p-61 being accepted. SoOO, when faced with an impossible challenge, we take impossible measures.. instead of releasing the P-61B I'll be releasing a P-61C which used an R2800-57C Engine and wide chord ( paddle) prop blades. Its a bit more to manage as the rpm can sneak up over 3000 on ya, but with a little research, you'll see why i'm choosing that one for the race.. Depending on what role our team will need her to fill, i can fly her with four external tanks for over 2300 miles range or cut the fuel ( and weight ) down by up to half for short normal legs.. In the rules, i read where there is one leg that calls for an aurcraft that weighs more than 32000 pounds.. Dry empty weight on the P-61C is over 28000 pounds and by the time you add fuel ammo etc. Well, 32000 pounds is left in the dust, and she'll still fly 428 mph. Yes, she'll have speed brakes, but at the time for the race, they wont be modeled visually.
I figure, if we dont try, we definitely wont succeed, but at least if we try, there's hope..

[Milton Shupe]

...snipped ...

Addendum::
arrrgh... I'm not a defeatest, but seeing as Miltons release at the end of january will be an RTM and ours pretty much an soh member alpha for the world as Milton named it , i have my doubts about the p-61 being accepted. ... snipped ..

Not sure what RTM means here Pam. The F7F I release will essentialy be what you have now with a few minor issues corrected and an optional blank panel background set. The F7F is totally temporary in every way except possibly the Flight Model. This was a "one off" package to give the world something different to fly this year. All its components are either a WIP, unfinished, or temporary filler. This is Not even an alpha release as most of this F7F will go to the recycle bin.

I finished my part of the F7F with the exterior model. As an SOH team project, I await the next modeler(s) to step in to do the interior model. the mapping, and textures. But it was fun throwing together a temporary VC for the race.

[MM]

Hi Pam,

There are two factors that you might consider while preparing a release for this years RTWR 2011.

First, and most important, you want your "Widder" to perform just as realistically as you can make it. We are mainly concerned with top speed (that is, with the throttles to the firewall) as this is an all out race. Also critical is fuel consumption, realistic tankage, and thus the range of the aircraft. The "normal" leg of the RTWR is typically between 700-750 nm--and the pilot would like to run the aircraft at full speed for that distance. (Of course, not all the fastest aircraft will go that far at full throttle.) You also want to get the "max_indicated_speed" and "max_mach" numbers about right. You will naturally have lots of other flight dynamic characteristics under control--but the absolute keys for certification have to do with speed over distance.

Note that this racing regime is not truly realistic. But it is a fun way to compete with each other in a friendly way. The key to realism is constructing a flight model that mimicks the actual aircraft. (And then we allow the pilots to abuse their machinery. lol )

We require that the final model be ready for testing at least two weeks before the race. It takes time for our Executive Committee and Aerodynamics Committee to test the model to assess its performance--to certify it for the race. Equally, race pilots from all the teams will need some time to evaluate the suitablity of the aircraft for their own flying. Two weeks seems a minimal amount of time for this testing. (Note that this year's race starts on February 19th.)

Second, the aircraft needs to be openly available for all RTWR participants. As this is freeware, the openly available part means that it is formatted as a complete usable model then made available through a normal download procedure. (Posting it in the SOH forums, for example, would not make it readily accessible to other forums' pilots.) Posting it to our SOH library as well as the AVSIM and/or FlightSim.com libraries would help a lot.

Please don't worry too much about cosmetics. And the panel need only be functional--as long as other pilots can add the gauges that they need. The flight dynamics and performance over distance are the main things for race eligibility.

That said, it will be terrific to have a properly flying P-61 on the racing grid. A truly great aircraft. We are all looking forward to seeing your artistry in the air.

Best,
Mike MacKuen

[warchild]

Thanksd milton and thanks mike..

milton..
RTM means Release to media. its the version of a product that gets sold ( or given ) to the public..

Mike.. Again, thanks.. all our speeds are dead on. Max speed on the C model is 430 - 450 mph depending on the wind.. VNE is a bit over 500 mph ( approx 525 mph ).. One of the most important items on our list is making sure that the plane in every way possible, matches as closely as possible, the specifications of the real plane. for something that weighs 32000 pounds, its a very fast and nimble plane, but compared to other aircraft such as the hornet or the P-51H its pretty mediocre..

Theres a problem though.. The version we are looking at releasing, is a teaser version. its incomplete as far as appointments go.. its missing a pilots seat for one, but the panel is fairly complete and functional except for the autopilot.. I admit that my biggest concern at the moment is the fact that its going to be a teaser version and not completed as full completion may still take several months due to the complexity of the interior and that Radar for which we havent been able to locate a programmer/modeler..

Mostly right now, i'm just moving forward on hope and faith and maybe it'll all work out.. Maybe it wont.. We'll see..
Pam

[fliger747]

Items such as autopilots are usually installed by the race end user via panel popups and need not be included. What you have is more than satisfactory for race purposes!

Cheers: T

[DHC120]

Like the F7f, the P-61 release will be an Alpha test release. I'm afraid theres no way for us to have a complete aircraft before march or april even.. I've got my fingers crossed that the commitee will allow a pre beta release to be used..
i compared you tiger with the widow and the two run very close for speed.. Because of her weight, the widow is much faster in a dive, but other than that, they're both very close.. The tiger is easier to land, and has a faster bank rate, but the widows weight allows her to maintain momentum for a much longer period of time, allowing for high speed runs over 400 mph for a longer distance.. altogether, between the two, we would have a winning combination..


Addendum::
arrrgh... I'm not a defeatest, but seeing as Miltons release at the end of january will be an RTM and ours pretty much an soh member alpha for the world as Milton named it , i have my doubts about the p-61 being accepted. SoOO, when faced with an impossible challenge, we take impossible measures.. instead of releasing the P-61B I'll be releasing a P-61C which used an R2800-57C Engine and wide chord ( paddle) prop blades. Its a bit more to manage as the rpm can sneak up over 3000 on ya, but with a little research, you'll see why i'm choosing that one for the race..

Pam;
So where can one download the P-61?
With respect to the B or C versions, panels, etc., don't most RTW folks pretty much "hop-up" their planes to suit? I mean, is there an RTW Rule that says on MUST use the Paddle Props and cannot not change them to Constant Speed Props, or the like? Granted, "Wide Chord" is a "max" prop, it's just that it doesn't use the engine's ability to compensate for climb, cruise, dive, etc.. In the long run, it actually makes the plan fly slower.
Plus, if the P-61 is RTW approved, race pilots WILL need time to add all the goodies they use/need for the race (and tweak accordingly), PLUS log some "seat time" to get a feel for the bird..

[Willy]

Mods to the flight model are not allowed for the RTW. Mods are basically limited to the gauges used in the panel. Personally, the risk of getting caught with an altered flight model isn't worth it.