SOH P-61 project

**fliger747** · October 7th, 2010, 16:39

Not sure what other bomber might have used a 4 blade ham standard, perhaps the B-26 Marauder? Most of the other R 2800 installations used three blade props, an exception being the F4U-4/5/7 and P47 series. The kind of stuff I need to look up.... to be sure.

Before the B-29 and R-3350 most of the heavy iron (b-17-B24) ran three blade units on the nominally 1200 hp class engines as did the Wildcat, SBD, Beef-ah-low etc. The electric Curtiss units could be troublesome, but at least could be feathered even if the engine was out of oil.

Excited to see all the latest developments.

T

***warchild*** · October 7th, 2010, 18:58

Welllllll, i'm hoping they're developments.. With Paul working on the Stearman Robert trying to do his best on the interior and Cag40 being called away to yet another fire every tim he turns around, the only test resuilts i'm able to get back are my own, and those are only on my machine. Personally i'm loving this thing more all the time, but there is always that nagging question of how will it fly on someone elses machine?? what did i miss?? What mistakes did I make??

I corrected wing incidence, wing dihedral, Mean Aerodynamic cord and propellor diameter to match published specifications. They werent far off, but they were off. My bad. They were my numbers. Also made advancements in correcting rudder force onset and strength but not through there yet.. Those changes will be on the next upload. Probably tomorrow.

I Miss Paul, I'll be honest, and i miss you too when your away. You two make me so mad sometimes i just want to pull out my hair and scream, and i'm extremely grateful for that..

I think once 4.1 is uploaded tomorrow, i'm going to call a hiatus on anything but major FM development till Beta begins, as the fm at this moment is so tight that it will need dissecting by a test team where we can put it back under a bunch of microsopes and torque everything into perfection.. But first, i want to know what its flight characteristics are on your machine.. i want to know if i'm completely out in space on this one, or if we're close. It'll be one or the other.

Be safe in your return home and hope you have a great night..
pam

***warchild*** · October 7th, 2010, 21:09

Changes were mostly minor corrections to the MAC, rudder authority, wing incidence, and dihedral to bring them in line with published data.

Personal observation: this thing needs air brakes.. No wonder they were worried about overshooting a target when they made the C model.. I still find myself amazed at how nimble and graceful she is though..

Edit-Addendum: Regarding speeds,or more accurately slowing down; i cant help but wonder at this moment if the rather low cruising speed ( 225 published 250 average real life used ) wasnt because with less momentum it was asier to slow the plane down for landing. Somehow it seems logical, but i'm not positive at all.. For such a large plane, this thing screams. and yet, i could keep up with a cessna 172.

***stansdds*** · October 8th, 2010, 02:59

Originally Posted by fliger747

Not sure what other bomber might have used a 4 blade ham standard, perhaps the B-26 Marauder? Most of the other R 2800 installations used three blade props, an exception being the F4U-4/5/7 and P47 series. The kind of stuff I need to look up.... to be sure.

Before the B-29 and R-3350 most of the heavy iron (b-17-B24) ran three blade units on the nominally 1200 hp class engines as did the Wildcat, SBD, Beef-ah-low etc. The electric Curtiss units could be troublesome, but at least could be feathered even if the engine was out of oil.

Excited to see all the latest developments.

T

The B-26 Marauder used Curtiss electric props.

***PRB*** · October 8th, 2010, 10:28

Got a tantalizing glimpse of Pam flight testing the Widow at a super secret SOH Skunk Works air base last night. The “Flight-19” gaggle landed at Pendleton OR in our DC-4s, what do you suppose we saw flying around the field? Well, it's so secret that she had her ECM on so it looked just like a DC-4, but, still cool.

**fliger747** · October 8th, 2010, 11:15

Well.... Off to HNL tonight, then YSSY etc... Will however take my joystick and get some testing in.

Busy times! Cheers, Tom

***warchild*** · October 8th, 2010, 11:37

Originally Posted by fliger747

Well.... Off to HNL tonight, then YSSY etc... Will however take my joystick and get some testing in.

Busy times! Cheers, Tom

HNL?? YSSY?? Man..I really wish they gave you some extra time to enjoy these places.. Have a good flight, and stay safe ok??

***warchild*** · October 8th, 2010, 11:41

Originally Posted by PRB

Got a tantalizing glimpse of Pam flight testing the Widow at a super secret SOH Skunk Works air base last night. The “Flight-19” gaggle landed at Pendleton OR in our DC-4s, what do you suppose we saw flying around the field? Well, it's so secret that she had her ECM on so it looked just like a DC-4, but, still cool.

Paul.. You should D/L the model

.. It was fun. Was gonna drop in and say high but then when i came over the top on that loop everyone had disappeared.. Its what i get for flying that late at night ::chuckles::.. I'm kind of a smart ass that way. Just really like being around people..

***warchild*** · October 8th, 2010, 12:19

Oh Tom.. i forgot to mention the climb rate.. i think i have it fixed.. Set flaps to 20 degrees and rotate at 110 mph. She should settle into a 2300 fpm climb at 150 mph and hold it all the way up..

She'll also do over 4000 fpm if you accelerate to 350 mph and pull up.. she holds it for quite a long way too..

One hell of an elevator ride

..

**fliger747** · October 9th, 2010, 16:31

Somm'at wierd in the props. Props stuck on 17 deg pitch, takes about 60" MP to get them up to 1500 RPM....

Investigating: T

**fliger747** · October 9th, 2010, 16:50

Prop gear ratio should be 2.0...... Now getting the correct possible prop speeds, but engine power is something like 4200 hp.............

Standard low speed theory limit for FS seems to usually be 80.... Have had good luck with this value. Beta Min value is typically around 17-18 or so, never seen it zero before.

Still think the MOI for the props is way too high, perhaps by half an order of magnitude.

Nose strut could be a bit stiffer.......

As someone pointed out, Two steps forward and one step back is still a step forward. We'll get there.............. T

***warchild*** · October 10th, 2010, 00:20

Please forgive me, but on top of several other things happening today, ilearned that a close friend was killed this afternoon while riding his bike.. I may not be around for a couple days.. My aplogies..
Pam

***warchild*** · October 10th, 2010, 19:08

I'm chasing several holy grails here, but the main one is maintaing a top end speed and gaining the ability to slow down.. I've come kinda close in this release, but i'm not fully happy yet...

Other changes in this release..

Prop MOI recalculated for an 864 pound four blade propeller..
Prop tables re calibrated for higher rpm and less torque
rudder effectiveness vs mach was made smoother
elevator effectiveness vs mach calibrated for more of a smooth curve.
engine mechanical efficiency and friction tables were adjusted to allow for a 350 mph top end while providing enough friction to slow down in a reasonable amount of time..
all other elements stay the same..
trust me, your gonna like it

..
Pam

**GT182** · October 11th, 2010, 17:09

I've just seen this thread on you guys doing a P-61 for FSX..... congrats.

As most might not know, MAAM's P-61 had it's tail booms on as of June's WWII Weekend. As to how much has happened since, I've no idea as I haven't been up to the museum since then. I do know that Bill Rambow is planning on doing a P-61 for MAAM Sim, but as to when that will start I don't know. The last I asked him about it he said in the future. I do know that can't do any sounds work until their 61 is flyable, and that's a ways down the road. They still need their one and only engine rebuilt, and they need find another one for her.

FYI, she now sits outside under her own enclosed canopy. She can no longer fit in the hangar with the B-25, Avenger, and the rest of the aircraft.

***warchild*** · October 11th, 2010, 17:39

All my opes, and fears are riding on the MAAm p-61.. We intend to make this version we are doing, the most accurate version of any plane done in FSX.. Gods know we're putting the effort and skill into it.. MAAM's P-61 will become the only flyable P-61 in the world, and i'm hoping i'm still around to see it.. Therein lay all my fears.. Yeah sure we have documentation, but a lot of stuff has to be extrapolated from pilot reports and stories and third party hearsay. and then theres the limitations that come with FSX, shich we've butted against at every turn for the last month.. i want this plane of ours to fly identically to the real P-61, but until MAAM's is flying, there's no way to tell..