Virtavia E-2C Released

[expat]

It's not the additional money outlay, it's the time involved that makes this development such a turn off. Having to move everything - add on scenery (FTX Global/Vector?), simobjects, AI set ups, etc etc - I just don't have the time to do that for more or less a sim that's the same as what I already have. Fragmenting/segmenting FSX add ons - making them "exclusive" - so they are not universally useable in the traditional cd version (and Prep3D) is NOT the way to go.

[TARPSBird]

I purchased the E-2C after reading the first few posts in this thread. First off... I'm a bit puzzled as to why DTG specified a "bare naked" paint job with no markings but I'm sure that will be fixed in the next few days after some of you artists get your paint brushes out. The ailerons are animated opposite from the control input, I like to think that will be fixed with an updated .mdl file. That just leaves me with one question: Does the radome rotate??? Even the Abacus E-2C's radome rotates and that's a nice realism feature, especially for squadrons like the "Screwtops" of VAW-123 with their distinctive spiral radome paint job.

[Randy92]

Look for "Groom Lake Simulations" on Facebook. These guys are already working on at least one US navy repaint.

And while you are there, check for their other repaints in their Photo album. Look for the Album called "Download". You can find some surprises in there.

Cheers,
Randy

[Cees Donker]

I have an issue that makes the model almost unflyable. I experienced this before, but certainly not this exrtreme. Changing views I get this in the VC for 53 seconds! I like to to fly, I'm not in for Russian roulette! Furthermore: my saitek system is not working with this one. That means I have to mouse control all switches, but I can live with that.



Cees

Edit: I asked for a refund.........

But I didn't get it!
Beware: this is a framerate hog! Unplayable. Not worth your money.

[simulloyd]

I am surprised that something like this was done. I have a lot of products from Virtavia. At best they are always lite and simple on systems. This is okay because not every Flight Simmer has a desire for study-sim aircraft. However, Virtavia didn't just show up in 2016 producing junk so I wonder what changed. I watched preview of X-Plane 11 and believe my worries of FSX performance will start to become a thing of the past.

[StormILM]

But I didn't get it!

Are you saying you did not get your refund yet? I received notice that they received my request but they have not sent any new notification yet regarding the refund. I assume they will process the request at the beginning of the week and then advise me by email.

[Cees Donker]

No, they refused. On the ground that I used it for more than two hours. Playing in the sim, wether it's with that plane or another, with the Dovetail plane on your account, counts as used time.

Cees

[StormILM]

No, they refused. On the ground that I used it for more than two hours. Playing in the sim, wether it's with that plane or another, with the Dovetail plane on your account, counts as used time.

Cees

So far they have not given me an answer. I used both the sim and model less than five minutes. If I were you, I would make a dispute on the purchase with your credit card bank (or whichever method you used). If they refuse me a refund, that is exactly what I am going to do as the software is flawed and unusable.

[jeansy]

No, they refused. On the ground that I used it for more than two hours. Playing in the sim, wether it's with that plane or another, with the Dovetail plane on your account, counts as used time.

Cees

Well that seals it for me, at least with most traditional sellers they can offer up to 30 days post purchase for a refund,

Im just sticking with P3D, as steam and DTG can go ....................

[bazzar]

One thing I do not and never will, understand is why people get so hot under the collar over what is somebody else's private business decision. If a game maker bought the exclusive rights for this product say for $500,000 would that be a "bad"move? For heaven's sake people just chill. If you don't want to play the game on Steam, fine, don't.

The crap we received from people over the Aztec was to be seen to be believed. The dust settled and all is now normal again. Apparently we were going to go out of business - "a suicidal business decision" was one comment.We actually increased our brand-awareness by a considerable margin.

As far as I understand from our experience, licensing will be the reason for not having liveries. The bigger you get as a business the larger a target you become for litigious lawyers holed up in corporate towers. That includes the armed forces. Trust me, we know.

[StormILM]

One thing I do not and never will, understand is why people get so hot under the collar over what is somebody else's private business decision. If a game maker bought the exclusive rights for this product say for $500,000 would that be a "bad"move? For heaven's sake people just chill. If you don't want to play the game on Steam, fine, don't.

The crap we received from people over the Aztec was to be seen to be believed. The dust settled and all is now normal again. Apparently we were going to go out of business - "a suicidal business decision" was one comment.We actually increased our brand-awareness by a considerable margin.

As far as I understand from our experience, licensing will be the reason for not having liveries. The bigger you get as a business the larger a target you become for litigious lawyers holed up in corporate towers. That includes the armed forces. Trust me, we know.

You're right, I admit I felt and still to some degree feel stumped over the decision made on this model but it is what it is, their decision and cooler heads will prevail, life will move on in this hobby. There's plenty of new content coming out over more than one sim platform to keep a wide variety of user tastes happy for the foreseeable future. We have a lot of options on what to buy or not buy.

[Daube]

This "Steam Exclusive" thing sounds like complete trash to me.
If they want it to be sold on Steam only, then fine, I can understand that, no problems.
But that DRM crap preventing to transfer the model on other sims is completely stupid. Saying "not supported on P3D or FSX-A, only supported on FSX Steam" would have been sufficient, and us simmers would have been able to use it on the other sims (without being able to complain in case of bugs, because not supported).
DRM sucks. Especially in the FS world.

[tommieboy]

DRM in FSX Steam.......I'll pass on that. I guess I'll run my boxed FSX until my next HD crash (prabably this year) and call it a day. I picked up a used Samsung tablet in anticipation of the demise of my tower unit......

Tommy

[StormILM]

They gave me refunds on both FSX-S and the E-2 but after going through this, I am leery about going this route again (DTG & Steam).

[TARPSBird]

I also got "buyer's remorse" and requested a refund and they approved it real quick, already got confirming emails from them and PayPal.

[pilto von pilto]

I also got "buyer's remorse" and requested a refund and they approved it real quick, already got confirming emails from them and PayPal.

Interesting. Let me say from the outset that my response isnt directed at TARPSbird only but he did raise an issue that is pervading other developments and games on steam.

Is buyers remorse a reason to request a refund? There is another game called firewatch on steam which is excellent and immersive and cheap but can be finished in under 2 hours if you go hell for leather. There was a feeling that you could buy the gam,e finish it then ask for your money back. This was countered by the developer saying that you arent supporting the developer in any way with those actions and that if you enjoyed the game, you should pay for the game. Plus there is a small problem about the "reputation" an addon/game gets if people do this regarding refunds. EG is the addon so bad that people are asking for refunds or is it a case of " oh I have just put some cash down and flown it enjoyed it but now I am sitting here realising that I spent some money I shouldnt have or could have spent else where".

At the end of the day you arent paying for an addon. You arent paying for the pixels/polygons/sounds etc. You are paying for the expertise/time/effort of the developer. When you ask for a refund based on buyers remorse this hurts the developer, the add-on and future developments. And because some people might construe this differently Let me reiterate the above in point form.

1. Not aimed at Tarpsbird , he did bring up an interesting point however.
2. I believe that buyers remorse isnt a reason to ask for a refund.
3. Asking for refunds can/does negatively impact a development ( rightly or wrongly) .
4. You arent paying for a product as such, you are paying for a developers time/effort/skills.
5. the point about hurting developers or addons and future developments isnt a threat it is purely an observation.
6. Sorry for the point form list, but my comments have in the past been very badly misconstrued.

[glh]

Reading this thread just reconfirms my policy to never be first or even tenth to buy an add-on and peruse the user reviews.

[mal998]

Well, how the reversed ailerons got past us is a mystery alright. Or maybe it was just the rush put on us and not enough sets of eyes looking at the product. Or maybe we put too much trust in the DTG test team (if there is one?). Sad truth is I just get paid to make'em fly or should I say try to make'em fly. Do I like planes without any decals? Hell no! Do I like rediculous last minute deadlines uh, uh. Do I like being involved in putting out a long-awaited type that lots of folks can't buy, uh no not really. But sometimes that shiny object that the big boys dangle in front of ya just clouds your vision with dreams of financial independence.

Did the ailerons get fixed? Of course they did. Did they get missed? Yep. Did the Rotodome get fixed? Yep. Did our latest moonshot and rocket retrieval go ok? Not so much. Geez after all these years you would think that most everybody here with the exception of some newbees would understand how the game is played and yet....

So, I guess I'll just go back to work on the next little 50s/60s project and hope it all turns out OK in the end. I have a feeling it will.

[Willy]

Interesting stuff here as I've been flying FSX-SE for over a year now with few to no issues. Then again, I don't got through Steam to get my add ons either. My take on those has been, nice enough price, but you don't get much for it either.

It wasn't until I got this comp that I had something that would run FSX. And then I couldn't find a new boxed set of any of the later versions that wasn't way overpriced. So, I went with SE and haven't regretted that purchase at all. Like I said, runs fine and the only issues have been from something that I've done.

[Corvette99]

Well, how the reversed ailerons got past us is a mystery alright. Or maybe it was just the rush put on us and not enough sets of eyes looking at the product. Or maybe we put too much trust in the DTG test team (if there is one?). Sad truth is I just get paid to make'em fly or should I say try to make'em fly. Do I like planes without any decals? Hell no! Do I like rediculous last minute deadlines uh, uh. Do I like being involved in putting out a long-awaited type that lots of folks can't buy, uh no not really. But sometimes that shiny object that the big boys dangle in front of ya just clouds your vision with dreams of financial independence.

Did the ailerons get fixed? Of course they did. Did they get missed? Yep. Did the Rotodome get fixed? Yep. Did our latest moonshot and rocket retrieval go ok? Not so much. Geez after all these years you would think that most everybody here with the exception of some newbees would understand how the game is played and yet....

So, I guess I'll just go back to work on the next little 50s/60s project and hope it all turns out OK in the end. I have a feeling it will.

How will the fix file be distributed ?

[Mickey D]

It will update automatically when you log on to Steam. At least that's how TS2016 updates.

[mal998]

"How will the fix file be distributed?"

Don't know. That will be up to DTG. As I said, I'm totally removed from the business aspects of dealing with them. Point is we made the fixes right away. What they do with those fixes and how quickly they move is up to them.

[Corvette99]

"How will the fix file be distributed?"

Don't know. That will be up to DTG. As I said, I'm totally removed from the business aspects of dealing with them. Point is we made the fixes right away. What they do with those fixes and how quickly they move is up to them.

Thanks for your work . Hope they act in a timely manner .

[flaviossa]

DTG is know about their lazyness in releasing SP for their product line. Look what is happening with another product "Feelthere Tower!3D Steam Version" witch is released under DTG care. The fix is on their hands more than 10 days by now (Following what is said by the developer), and nothing is released to the public. Expect some waiting time ...

[airattackimages]

Interesting. Let me say from the outset that my response isnt directed at TARPSbird only but he did raise an issue that is pervading other developments and games on steam.

Is buyers remorse a reason to request a refund? There is another game called firewatch on steam which is excellent and immersive and cheap but can be finished in under 2 hours if you go hell for leather. There was a feeling that you could buy the gam,e finish it then ask for your money back. This was countered by the developer saying that you arent supporting the developer in any way with those actions and that if you enjoyed the game, you should pay for the game. Plus there is a small problem about the "reputation" an addon/game gets if people do this regarding refunds. EG is the addon so bad that people are asking for refunds or is it a case of " oh I have just put some cash down and flown it enjoyed it but now I am sitting here realising that I spent some money I shouldnt have or could have spent else where".

At the end of the day you arent paying for an addon. You arent paying for the pixels/polygons/sounds etc. You are paying for the expertise/time/effort of the developer. When you ask for a refund based on buyers remorse this hurts the developer, the add-on and future developments. And because some people might construe this differently Let me reiterate the above in point form.

1. Not aimed at Tarpsbird , he did bring up an interesting point however.
2. I believe that buyers remorse isnt a reason to ask for a refund.
3. Asking for refunds can/does negatively impact a development ( rightly or wrongly) .
4. You arent paying for a product as such, you are paying for a developers time/effort/skills.
5. the point about hurting developers or addons and future developments isnt a threat it is purely an observation.
6. Sorry for the point form list, but my comments have in the past been very badly misconstrued.

That's a silly answer. If a product isn't up to snuff, that isn't "buyers remorse". We aren't given any insight in how flawed a flight simulator addon is before buying. Hell, if I had to buy a brand new $55,000 Corvette without the benefit of a test drive and it turns out the wheels steered in the opposite direction -- you wouldn't catch me feeling bad for how many hours the engineers in Michigan spent on it.

Also, Groom Lake Simulations has discovered that the textures are mirrored, making US Navy textures next to impossible.

And as for the "why don't you just shut up and get FSX SE" sentiment some are voicing, there are a couple reasons. One, I have boxed, and no reason to buy the same simulation in a different format. Two, as someone that used Steam in the past, I'm not a fan of giving a third party entity full time access to my computer through a connection that is always open, sending and receiving information. Cyber threats are constantly taking down corporations that are far more secure and protected than Steam.