Interesting Info About The Attack On Midway

[bobhegf]

I decided to take a brake from the Cactus Readme and do two missions flown durring the battle of Midway along with a watch and see mission.I found a page that told the story of the fight put up by not only the fighters but bombers as well.The US had 20 F2A-3s and 7 F4F-3 for a total of 27 fighters.Out of thies only 25 took part in the fight. One was grounded and the other turned back because of engine problems.Maj Parks had 6 F4Fs and 8 F2A-3s. Of thies only three planes returned.The XO of VMF 221 Had the rest with him and was told to stand off to the side and gaurd against a flanking attack.The enemy came in at 12000FT and was picked up by 89nm out.Maj.Parks attacked the enemy 30nm out of Midway using a high side pass.Once his unit had passed through the enemy he tried to form up for a second pass when his unit was jumped by fighters.The second unit by this time was also attacking the enemy but due to enemy fighters was unable to form up for a second pass.Only 10 of our fighters landed after the battle and only three were still flyable.Here are some interesting side notes. Maj Parks did make it out of his plane but was killed just after landing in the water.Next CincPac strongly suggested that the fighters escort the bombers in the attack on the enemy strick force but it was not an order.The 1st mistake that I think the CO at Midway made was to split the airgroup into two parts.They should have gone as one unit.The second was to try to form up for a second run on the bombers.I think this is where the enemy fighters really nailed us.It was stated by ground units on Midway that they only counted 18 Vals and 22 Kates that made bomb runs on Midway and out of thies the ground units got 10 more.It was also stated by our ground units that as the enemy planes were leaving the area they saw some falling into the water and others falling out of formation.Our bomber strick force also reported after returning to Midway that they had seen aircraft parts all along the rout back to Midway.:typing:

[bobhegf]

Another note:I was able to get all the aircraft into the mission and it can get wild.I wasn`t sure I could do it because I am still running win98se.:typing:

[bismarck13]

Remaking Midway right . . . .

Don't you need four of these? Or did you just use the wrong model of B-26?

[bobhegf]

I havn`t done the bombing mission yet and could sure use them.:typing:

[T Square]

A great book from the Japanese perspective about Midway is "Midway" written by Mitsuo Fuchida and Masatake Okumiya, published by Bluejacket Books. Some interesting figures are the number if aircraft lost by both sides. They use the actual Japanese loss figures as compared to US figures provided by S.E. Morison.

US Aircraft Losses

Carrier Aircraft----------------------109 (Includes combat losses for 4, 5, & 6 June + 11 aircraft lost with Yorktown)
Shore Based Aircraft
Marine------------ 28
Navy------------- 6
Army------------- 4
Total Shore Based ------------------ 38
Total Losses ---------------------147

Japanese Aircraft Losses

Lost in Midway air strike -------------- 6
Fighters of combat air patrol lost------ 12
Lost in attacks on US Carriers--------- 24
Lost with carriers when sunk ---------280
Seaplanes lost----------------------- 10

Total ------------------------------- 332

Author's note: total Japanese plane losses given here considerably exceed the approximate 250-plane figure given in US sources. The number of planes lost is in excess of the actual operational complement of the four Nagumo Force carriers, which aggregated 261 planes. This difference is partially accounted for by the fact that the Japanese losses include fighter aircraft of Midway Expeditionary Force which were being ferried to Midway in these carriers.

This is one of the reasons the defeat at Midway was so crushing to the Japanese, not only did they lose 2/3 of thier carrier force along with the aircraft and pilots with them, but another complete land based air group as well along with the highly trained pilots and ground personnel for this group as well.

[bobhegf]

After looking at the IJN stated losses and what was observed by our units, and this is more than one unit at Midway, I would say that someone is way off on the number of IJN planes lost in that 1st strike on Midway.I can understand the reasoning for the IJN report about the losses of the 1st strike and I can also under stand why we said we saw only 18 Vals and 22 Kates attack Midway,it is called confusion. I don`t think anyone will ever really know how many IJN aircraft were lost in that 1st strike.:typing:

[TARPSBird]

...I would say that someone is way off on the number of IJN planes lost in that 1st strike on Midway.

I'd say so too. Well, maybe not way off but at least short by a few Kates and Vals. AAA fire was intense at Midway. I'm pretty sure the defenders had wreckage piles to account for 3-4 aircraft, plus others that crashed offshore, plus one confirmed Zero shot down by (future) Marine ace Marion Carl. Not to mention the smokers that our forces saw departing which probably ended up as some of that floating wreckage.

[T Square]

After looking at the IJN stated losses and what was observed by our units, and this is more than one unit at Midway, I would say that someone is way off on the number of IJN planes lost in that 1st strike on Midway.I can understand the reasoning for the IJN report about the losses of the 1st strike and I can also under stand why we said we saw only 18 Vals and 22 Kates attack Midway,it is called confusion. I don`t think anyone will ever really know how many IJN aircraft were lost in that 1st strike.

I agree with you Bob according to Japanese account, the first strike on Midway consisted of 108 aircraft, 36 Type-97 level bombers from Soryu and Hiryu, 36 Type-99 dive bombers frrom Akagi and Kaga, and 36 Zeros (nine from each carrier). Confusion rules the field of battle, another interesting fact is that is the confusion on locations where each carrier sank. Not only do US coordinates very but the japanese accounts conflict as well. Fuchida gives a good account of Japanese errors such as the stacking of bombs and torpedos in hangar decks instead of storing them properly, the lack of or poor damage control procedures. Even uniforms are questioned, Japanese sailors work uniforms consisted of shorts, t-shirts and tennis shoes (not much protection against fire). The majority of the survivors suffered severe burns. No one will ever know all the facts but I have no reason to question these two Gentilemens accounts as they saw them, they give a pretty damning account of the Japanese Navy and the errors that were made.

[bobhegf]

I agree it is hard to sit in a gunmount and with in one min. count the number of planes comming at you.I am going to go with the US account from the combat reports for the missions. The important thing is we one the battle.:typing: