Just Flight's Constellation repaints ?
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Thread: Just Flight's Constellation repaints ?

  1. #1
    SOH-CM-2019 Crusader's Avatar
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    Just Flight's Constellation repaints ?

    Does anyone know of a good stack of military repaints for the Just Flight Constellation series?
    C-69, C-121, EC-121 or any other?

    Rich

  2. #2
    SOH-CM-2019 Crusader's Avatar
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    I know the Constellation is aging a little since it came out on Just Flight but I was hoping someone would do a " Columbine " repaint of Ike's Presidential plane . As previously stated , we really lack repaints to this popular old AC which a lot of us still fly frequently . I even fly it in P3Dv3.2 . Very few repaints for this grand old bird . I did find a couple over at Ox . Must be a real PIA to paint .

    Rich



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    SOH-CM-2019 Crusader's Avatar
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    Sorry , found an old (actually not so old) thread I had written and Daube had responded : " That Constellation has unfortunately some very outdated graphics, especially for the external model which looks like early FS9 stuff. I never saw many screenshots of it. In fact, the simmers preferred the freeware Constellation by Manfred and his team.
    From my side, I couldn't decide between the two of these. The external model of the Payware Connie prevented me from buying it, but now it's one of the default planes in P3D, so I could finally fly it. What I like about it is the complete virtual cockpit, which includes the engineer panel, thus allowing a complete start from Cold&Dark.
    The last version of Manfred's Connie I tried had an incomplete VC, the engineer panel was not available or not clickable, so a Cold&Dark startup was impossible from the VC.

    Perhaps there are some additional or more valid reasons, like bad paintkits or bad texture mapping (mirrored, hard to edit, etc...) or stuff like that. Potential repainters would be able to explain this much better than myself.
    It's a shame because a good repaint would probably compensate for the lack of polygons...

    Bottom Line : going to download Manfred's Connie and give it a go .
    Thanks- Rich

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    Dear Crusader

    my 2 cents

    Nothing to sell,but i own every Connie from the late Howard (only2 D panel) to Alphasim to JF and was team member with all Manfreds Connies

    Above statement may be valid for Alphasim but not for JF or MJ

    That is JF



    Nothing wrong with exterior model ( Which is a mere nightmare to get right because of that shape
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails jf3.jpg   jf2.jpg   jf1.jpg  

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    And that is Manfred'S



    The highest developed ones are

    L-1649 and the Turbine Connie by Volker based on Manfred's plane

    lockheed_l-1249a_turboprop_super_constellation.zip

    My 2 cents

    Roland
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails mj2.jpg   mj1.jpg   mj3.jpg  

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
    Sorry , found an old (actually not so old) thread I had written and Daube had responded : " That Constellation has unfortunately some very outdated graphics, especially for the external model which looks like early FS9 stuff.

    Perhaps there are some additional or more valid reasons, like bad paintkits or bad texture mapping (mirrored, hard to edit, etc...) or stuff like that. Potential repainters would be able to explain this much better than myself.
    Thanks- Rich
    Agree Ive always like the Connie, however all aspects of the JF/AH texturing of this model as been a huge turn off for me, after looking at the paintkits, the lack of detail has decided myself and others to look elsewhere, the time and effort to produce a detailed repaint is not really worth the time

  7. #7
    SOH-CM-2019 Crusader's Avatar
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    Thanks Roland and jeansy . I really enjoy both . A majestic old bird with a lot of class . A ton of repaints for Manfred's . I also found a Columbine II for it . A JF-Pan Am and Manfred's with Ike on board . Ike would be proud of me , I made it off Yakutat's (PAYA)shorter runway .

    Rich ( I'll have to try the turbo out- thanks for the link)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2016-3-19_10-10-47-696.jpg   Columbine II.jpg  

  8. #8

    JF "Paint Kit?"

    Quote Originally Posted by jeansy View Post
    Agree Ive always like the Connie, however all aspects of the JF/AH texturing of this model as been a huge turn off for me, after looking at the paintkits, the lack of detail has decided myself and others to look elsewhere, the time and effort to produce a detailed repaint is not really worth the time
    Looking at the Just Flight Connie "paint kit" I'd have to reserve judgement on whether it even deserves the name. I've seen worse paint kits, but I don't remember where. No, that's not true. The "paint kit" for the Just Flight Mosquito (the Mk VI with the 5-stack exhaust) is at least equally disastrous for repainting. No layers for panel lines or weathering or markings.. In fact, the kit for the Mosquito is just neon colored shapes for the various parts, with a label of what part it is. NO details. At least the Connie has a base layer that shows some details, but no way for them to show through, or overlay, repaint layers.
    "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup"

  9. #9
    The paintkit is not a "skinner's" kit. It was designed back in the day for re-painters. People who painted models from the base up including their own interpretation of detail, weathering, dirt and so on. That's what good re[ainters used to do. Today, people want layered files with everything there. Just slide the colour underneath and add a logo or two and it's done. Sorry, but that's skinning not re-painting. We tend not to supply those types of kits. They take longer to do and we'd probably have to charge for a kit.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bazzar View Post
    The paintkit is not a "skinner's" kit. It was designed back in the day for re-painters. People who painted models from the base up including their own interpretation of detail, weathering, dirt and so on. That's what good re[ainters used to do. Today, people want layered files with everything there. Just slide the colour underneath and add a logo or two and it's done. Sorry, but that's skinning not re-painting. We tend not to supply those types of kits. They take longer to do and we'd probably have to charge for a kit.
    To make pay for, you only have these words in your mouth! You could just as well give photoshop (or other) sources of a texture delivered as a paintkit!
    This is appalling!

    JMC

  11. #11
    Whatever you say.

  12. #12
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzar View Post
    The paintkit is not a "skinner's" kit. It was designed back in the day for re-painters. People who painted models from the base up including their own interpretation of detail, weathering, dirt and so on. That's what good re[ainters used to do. Today, people want layered files with everything there. Just slide the colour underneath and add a logo or two and it's done. Sorry, but that's skinning not re-painting. We tend not to supply those types of kits. They take longer to do and we'd probably have to charge for a kit.
    That's called progress Bazz . In the "good old days" I didn't even have a program to work with layered files, so why would I ask for layered files? Now complex programs like for instance Gimp are freely available. So in my opinion its logical people ask for layered paintkits or skinnerkits as you call them.

    I still do both. When there is a good layered paintkit available I will definitely use that one and add my own weathering etc. However I often choose to paint models for which there is nothing available, so I have to start from scratch. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with both options. The second options is however far more time consuming and often needs a lot of research. But I wouldn't call one option "better" than the other option.

    Although I like to spend time making repaints, my main goal is still to create something which makes a model looks nice. It isn't my main goal to to spend a lot of time.

    As said, nothing more than my personal opinion,
    Huub

  13. #13
    Progress indeed Huub. I'm just amused how people get hot under the collar over projects and products a decade old. We have a guy currently demanding an upgrade on a product we developed 15 years ago. What other business exists where service is demanded on a product that cost maybe $20 and was purchased 15 years ago? That reminds me, I have a shirt I bought 10 years ago and the collar has started to fray. Maybe i can get a replacement....

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bazzar View Post
    That reminds me, I have a shirt I bought 10 years ago and the collar has started to fray. Maybe i can get a replacement....
    If you succeed, let me know the company! I have several shirts like that!
    Matt

  15. #15
    The Connie is my fav propliner. Both Manfred's and Just Flight's. I know neither is state of art compared to some newer releases DC-6 comes to mind but I've been enjoying them for many years. Can't remember when I bought the JF but paid some where around $20 for it. I've sure got my money worth out that purchase.

  16. #16
    Layered paint kits are a luxury if you have them to start with.

    When I painted more often for Alphasim/Virtavia they all started from a single layer texture map of the wire frame in BMP format. From there you built something to work with layer by layer. And you were able to influence the mapping by talking directly to the modeler. When the product was ready for release I would dummy a copy of the PSD texture files down as much as possible to reduce the filesize and give the repainter something to do besides change the squadron badge and claim all the credit. I always felt that repaints were a good promoter of follow-on sales after the initial release.

    But some companies (Carenado and Alabeo come to mind) only give you a non-layered set of white textures. And yet they sell like hot cakes and repainters who have bothered to learn the tricks of working with them crank out beautiful repaints.

    So they are nice to have but not absolutely necessary.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by bazzar View Post
    Whatever you say.
    To day, a paintkit with layers is the minimum that a client can expect. Your words on the cost of a paintkit is simply out of order in addition to being presumptuous!
    JMC

  18. #18
    May be time to consider "unbundling" paint kits and offering a "payware" quality repainter's kit as a separate product for additional fee.

    I do not paint, so I've no use for a paint kit included with the product. Others may like a paint kit with a very basic model (single plain livery) sufficient to load up and to evaluate repaints.

    And I don't expect that payware products of rather advanced age should be expected to have paint kits meeting standards not in practice when the product was originally modeled. Perhaps there is a market for re-worked third party paint kits?

    Just my opinion, perhaps I have misunderstood some of the earlier forum discussion.

  19. #19

    Interpretation

    Quote Originally Posted by bazzar View Post
    The paintkit is not a "skinner's" kit. It was designed back in the day for re-painters. People who painted models from the base up including their own interpretation of detail, weathering, dirt and so on. That's what good re[ainters used to do. Today, people want layered files with everything there. Just slide the colour underneath and add a logo or two and it's done. Sorry, but that's skinning not re-painting. We tend not to supply those types of kits. They take longer to do and we'd probably have to charge for a kit.
    sorry, but I have to disagree. Other developers make PSD and PSP layered kits and include it with the product. The single-layer no detail, you might as well start from an existing texture file and paint over it your own colors, details, weathering etc. I've had to do that for a few planes that didn't come with any sort of paint kit, often replacing their blurry default details with higher resolution images from the web. Something like rivets and panel lines, or stencils, that don't vary from one paint job to another is often prohibitively difficult to replicate without having those layers in a paint kit.

    What you call "reskinning" everyone else calls making a repaint, and it includes every bit as much research as a ground up paint, especially on military or restored aircraft, where you have few photos, often none of which are in color. That these are older planes I get that, and am not asking for "service" on them decades after the fact. I am stating my opinion on what you call a paint kit, that I view as nearly worthless.
    "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup"

  20. #20
    woohoo, paying for paintkits. That would make me stop painting instantly. I do this for fun, and for free, I don't think anybody would pay for my repaints.
    On the other hand, going through complete startup procedures is not my cup of tea, ctrl-E is fine for me. Maybe we should let people pay for more details like that...
    As for old style versus new style paintkit, that's progress. Not many people would pay for a 15 year old model, but something new. There is already a just flight C-47, but I'm still looking forward for Baz's latest, if only to see how things have improved...
    and who knows, there may even be a nice paintkit!
    But I would be perfectly happy with just plain white textures like Carenado offers, no paintkit or layers needed.
    And really simple to make for the developers.
    You can find most of my repaints in the library here on the outhouse

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by bazzar View Post
    Progress indeed Huub. I'm just amused how people get hot under the collar over projects and products a decade old. We have a guy currently demanding an upgrade on a product we developed 15 years ago. What other business exists where service is demanded on a product that cost maybe $20 and was purchased 15 years ago? That reminds me, I have a shirt I bought 10 years ago and the collar has started to fray. Maybe i can get a replacement....
    I once had a customer who called to have her Bolens Tractor fixed under warranty because it broke. It was 22 years old and she figured she had never used the warranty so...

    This type of request comes all time to software developers.

    Myself just do the logical thing and not provide a paint kit. There will be a painter out there who could produce a good quality layered paint. Let them distribute it freely.

  22. #22
    Whilst not a prolific or even good repainter, I have never used a provided paintkit, purposefully avoiding those models that come with them. Much preferring to make my own layered painkit. More challenging, definitely, more satisfying, infinitely. I agree with Baz entirely, plus there are many talented repainters around, ask in the right places or even wait patiently (I know, shock!) and your prayers may be answered.

    With programs like Gimp, etc. available for free, heck, grab a copy and have at it, you never know you might even enjoy it.


    Jamie

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by gastonj View Post
    To day, a paintkit with layers is the minimum that a client can expect. Your words on the cost of a paintkit is simply out of order in addition to being presumptuous! JMC
    You need to settle down my friend. There are one or two more important things in this life than paintkits, I can assure you.

  24. #24
    My first foray into painting planes was by rebirthing existing paints...so altering an existing bitmap at single layer. I never used anything to do with 'layers' for years. Then when I did find an existing layered kit for something it was often less than ideal [because PSP wouldn't open it and I hate using PS] being as low res as it can be.
    When I had the urge...and a considerable amount of time...I'd rework a 1024 kit into 4096 and get absolutely anal with alignments....1 pixel at 4096 is 'anal'...
    Of course, needless to say, I can't recall too many times when someone might say 'thanks for the detailed kit' so the days/weeks spent developing one had better be a labor of love aka hobby or it's a lost cause...

  25. #25
    Here's a thought.

    First how about everybody settles down.

    Secondly it is not set in stone that a developer (ANY developer!) is obliged to supply a 'paint kit', be it layered or plain vanilla.

    I'm not a 'repainter' at all, and I'm grateful for the talented individuals that produce such outstanding work that covers my own area of interest and do it FOC.
    However, I do not 'request' paints at all and IIRC the last attempt at commercialising this aspect of our hobby (McPhat?) fell over quite rapidly as the general run of the mill user was not prepared to pay anything.
    I do believe developers who do provide a paint kit should be applauded, particularly in this time of change, but I repeat, it is not compulsory.

    As for whinging over older releases, just stop doing so, 'Tempus Fugit'.

    "Illegitimum non carborundum".

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