I've been wondering...

[rdaniell]

....if there are many others who like me would like to see developers make two versions of their aircraft? What I mean is that what about a "lite" version for guys like me who could care less about looking under the cowling, looking a the machine guns, etc. Same thing with all the animations when I leave the aircraft. I have no need for the chocks, pitot tube cover, etc., showing up when I shut it down because I don't shut it down. I just close out the flight.

At the beginning of the flight, I prefer that all systems are up, switches on, and the engine running. I simply want to go fly the airplane.

This may not be an option for the developers but, I just wanted to share my thoughts and get the thoughts of others. That is, of course, if I'm not a minority of one.

RD

[harrybasset]

I tend to agree with your comments. I find some of the latest offerings a little intimidating. Granted they are wonderful, detailed creations but so complex that although I buy them I don't fly them very often.

[dhazelgrove]

The trouble is - as you'd guess - that the people who are willing to pay their hard-earned money for an add-on generally want 'more-bang-for-their-buck' every time.

The lighter-featured aircraft tend to be the freeware ones (with a few exceptions, of course).

Dave

[DaveSHQ]

The extra stuff you mention is useful for those that post screenshots for the 'artsy' look

[rcbarend]

The problem is that, being a (freeware) developper myself, you simply can't please everyone.

A few examples:
- Some people like detailled systems as realistic as possible, but don't care less about the exterior visual model or textures quality. Because they don't fly in an Exterior view.
- Some people like complex startup procedures, but don't care about realistic flight dynamics or Visuals.
- Some people kick on flightdynamics as real as possible, but don't care about texture resolution because it ruins their framerate.
- Some people just want to have a whatever quality version of a very unique aircraft they know, in a special livery.
- Some people kick on the VC being visually as realistic as possible (and everything clickable), but only want to get in the pilots seat, and fly .....
Etc etc ... In any combination.

So what does one mean by "lite version" ?? "Lite" in what ??
And then I'm not even talking about people who just want to get in a whatever plane and enjoy beautifull scenery whilst flying.
Or aren't interested in the aircraft addon at all, as long as they can fly it in any kind of Multi-player mode properly.
Or are only interrested in features they can control via external (multiple) controllers like in a complex simcockpit setup ......

I hope you see my point.

Cheers, Rob

[Ian Warren]

Myself a freeware developer .. Rob , yip all the above, tho have not built an airport in a long whiles I've done the dogwork and autogened huge area's, really it is only New Zealand and course Norfolk OZ , I've taken a backseat at the mo , things the require real world attention.

[rdaniell]

Boy am I sorry I started this thread. All I was wondering was if there were any fellow simmers here at the Outhouse who enjoy flying the way I do. That is: Start FSX, select an airplane and airport, and go flying.

I was not looking to be lectured on anything nor asked to define my choice of words.

Would some kind administrator please just CLOSE this thread.

RD

[Milton Shupe]

RD, I don't think anyone is picking on you at all; just trying to say that its hard to define "lite" as it means different things to different people. With that said, its virtually impossible to meet that general requirement for everyone who feels "generally" that way you and I feel. :-)

[rcbarend]

Boy am I sorry I started this thread. All I was wondering was if there were any fellow simmers here at the Outhouse who enjoy flying the way I do. That is: Start FSX, select an airplane and airport, and go flying.

I was not looking to be lectured on anything nor asked to define my choice of words.

Would some kind administrator please just CLOSE this thread.

RD

Hi RD,

I hope it wasn't my reply that made you react this way.
But if it was, that certainly wasn't my intention. Sorry ....

All I was trying to argue, is that there are many "angles" to this flightsim hobby, and what's important in an addon for one person, isn't for someone else (or even the opposite).
That's all; and certainly not addressed to you personally.

Best regards, Rob
T

[Willy]

Boy am I sorry I started this thread. All I was wondering was if there were any fellow simmers here at the Outhouse who enjoy flying the way I do. That is: Start FSX, select an airplane and airport, and go flying.

I was not looking to be lectured on anything nor asked to define my choice of words.

Would some kind administrator please just CLOSE this thread.

RD

RD, I don't see any reason to close it yet.

For the record, I'm the kick the tires and light the fires camp. I tend to fly propliners a lot and I've joked around the most Flight Engineers must drunks or idiots if the pilot has to do so much of their work load. And I'm not getting his paycheck to do his job for him. Cntrl-e is my friend.

[Ian Warren]

Boy am I sorry I started this thread. All I was wondering was if there were any fellow simmers here at the Outhouse who enjoy flying the way I do. That is: Start FSX, select an airplane and airport, and go flying.

I was not looking to be lectured on anything nor asked to define my choice of words.

Would some kind administrator please just CLOSE this thread.

RD

I have two good mates who stop very here regularly .. one .. he is a Ctrl + E guy and the other systems , but Ctrl + E , all he loves is the artistry that go's in the models , the shear effort involved and the final result , I had a well know NZ aircraft designer stop here a whiles back .... his idea was to fly outside the cockpit looking from the tail ... but the thing is everyone is looking and looks at flight simulation so differently .. and in saying that everyone has a different way the design and build ....

Frankly , it is a very fair question and it simply make people think ... hold you ground , you can't go wrong .

[WarHorse47]

All I was wondering was if there were any fellow simmers here at the Outhouse who enjoy flying the way I do. That is: Start FSX, select an airplane and airport, and go flying.RD

Well, sometimes yes. And sometimes no. A lot depends on my mood, how much time I have to fire up FSX, and the kind of flight I want to take. So, yes I enjoy flying the way you do but not on a consistent basis.

I do enjoy some of the complex models being released today. Those that I enjoy the most have the ability to quick-start and just fly. But there are times I like to play with all the switches, do a full cold start, etc. And there are other times I like to see all the eye candy animations and pose for a screenshot with some neat scenery.

Bottom line is that I love FSX for several years now because of the diversity in what I can fly, where I can fly and how I can fly.

Cheers

[wombat666]

RD, I don't see any reason to close it yet.

For the record, I'm the kick the tires and light the fires camp. I tend to fly propliners a lot and I've joked around the most Flight Engineers must drunks or idiots if the pilot has to do so much of their work load. And I'm not getting his paycheck to do his job for him. Cntrl-e is my friend.

Right with you Willy.
I really could care less about running through a time consuming full startup procedure, I 'fly' for fun, if I want a challenge I go to a track day with one of my bikes.
What is irritating and puts me off buying one of the 'in depth' releases is the lack of an optional quick start mode for peasants like me!
Of course, all those 'in depth' features add to the cost, which must have an impact on sales, so sound business sense would indicate a side by side 'light option' might result in increased sales.
At this point A$1.00 (the Pacific Peso) only buys US$00.70+/- a few points, another reason for avoiding the heavy hitters.

[Daveroo]

i'm with warhorse here (though i didn't read all of his comment or even some of the other longish ones) which is why i like the CTRL+E way of flying...i'm a hobbyist,,not a purest ,so i prefer to just start the sim ,usually while on the runway,with the engine(s) going and be off in to the air...then again..some planes i want the entire cake and eat it too.....start cold n dry from a parking spot on the ramp somewhere...have to click all the clickies and switch all the switchies and then taxi to the run-up using the differential braking.the whole enchilada....and to be totally honest...when i get back to flying...i plan to have not only my saitek yoke/throttles/radios/trim wheel/rudders..BUT i also want to get the saitek X55? stick and any extras for that ,so when i go to fly a stick n rudder...i'm flying a stick and rudder....and same for the yokies...so basically...i want both planes...supper dupper fancieschmanchy planes with all the doodads n baubles....and the simple ctrl-e type planes........another part of it for me is how much time do i have to fly?......can i sit for several hours and fly?...or do i have 30 minutes max for a short hop?...it would take me 35 minutes to do a "real" start up on a plane that would take all the rest of ya 6 minutes to do.....ive said it before...but im a slow learner...im not "retarted/slow" in that sense.....but i don't learn by reading..i learn by doing....like i might be trying to flay a plane i just can't understand...i get so confused in the read me..or that pilots hand book thing..POS?..

but if someone like Stovall were to come by and help me..or G-man stop by like he said he would as well...or when rockstar comes in a couple weeks...and sit with me and talk me through..what i'm both reading..and attempting to do....i could learn it...like when i was starting to race cars....people,including my own folks ,said to me "Davey,you wont be able to do this..you've never learned any sports correctly,i'm not trying to discourage you,but ya cant do this" ....i went out for rookie day and two following "play days" where a guy named Dave Witt told me...."Look boy,imma stay right on your ass,everytime you start to over drive the car...im going to hit you....and sure enough...everytime i put the rear of the car out in a big slide,,,he'd hit me.....i said to him between sessions...dude?.why you doing that...he looked at me said...yer over driving..like i said....yer driving a race car...yer not out in a field trying to do donuts or just sliding around...kids these days would call it drifting..he said DRIVE THAT CAR...you want to win?..or look cool to yer little friends.....hell i didnt have any friends to look cool for..lol...so i followed his advice..and two weeks in..i was beating dave almost every time were raced in the same race...the prior years..5 years..he had won the championship the most trophy dashes,the most fast times ...something he hadnt done in those 5 years was to get a clean sweep. i got two in my first season and two more the second season,i only won two A mains,but with 40 cars on a small 1/4 mile,it was measured at the outside wall...not 8 feet inside the outside wall.so there was an entire lane missing on our track..plus a very tight dogleg in the front stretch.....mater of fact...i had fast time and won the dash my first night...passed 37 of the 40 cars to finish 3rd in the A main...my first night..no experiance in a race car outside of the three practices....at the awards banquit the year i left that division...Dave got up and gave me the award for the most fast times that year..which included 7 new track records..he said...this man im giving this award to is not a friend of mine,never will be,i dont like him ....at all...BUT...hes one of the best new drivers ive come across and for that....im proud to have taught him how to beat me!!!...stupid thing for me to have done...but there it is...im sooooo glad hes done with us and moving up....any sprint guys need a driver???....everyone laughed ofcourse...and it was said much better than i write.....but it was at this awards night,that someone in the crowd told Junie Donlavey about me..and then i got the call from him....biggest mistake i ever made in my life was to not go work for him...i had no idea who he was..and was wary of what he was offering me...but to this day i kick myself and ask...could i have run with Dale Earnhardt ?..could i have beaten him?.....i feel i could have....like him..i wouldnt put up with any crap from anyone..and he could have tried to mess with me...but like Jeff Gordon did...id have messed right back... amyway.......i think i might have made my point?.........ugh i type to muuch...

[Astoroth]

I'm definately a "lite" kind of guy. I like a nice visual model, but don't give a hoot about systems. I can't stand flying from the virtual cockpit, in fact I comment out the interior model in most of my planes so there is no VC. I don't fly from the panel either. I have a custom made minipanel that gives me all the info I need to fly, so that I can spend more time looking at the scenery as I go over. That minipanel is in every one of my planes and helicopters. I like the freedom to cntrl-E start, and autoshutdown. I do most of my flying in the bush, so a clear field of view to see the scenery is what I like.

[Dev One]

As a freeware developer of light aircraft primarilary for FS9 (although FSX portovers) & usually of pre WW2 or just after vintage, then there are very few switches to throw to get airborne, but I must admit that I like the challenge to produce an aircraft as near as possible to its real counterpart & to fly it from the VC. I'm not a long distance flyer, but of course in creating the aircraft I am constantly doing circuits & bumps to tweak the FDE. I hope that users can then save the flight they wish to start from with or without all systems running. I also like the challenge of trying something different, e.g. having a 'hand start' & the 'Contact' call that I did (with a little help Dave G & others) for my Civilian Coupe 'Bunty'. Am I wasting my time? But being stubborn I suppose I keep at it! Its a nice feeling when one stops!
Keith

[Dimus]

I believe developers of premium systems intensive models are more and more trying to accommodate all tastes by including configuration utilities where you can select to have your plane either cold and dark or ready to fly, or even in intermediate states. Some examples I have experienced or tested are most Milviz models and the Aerosoft Katana X. The A2A accusim ones are also made to start using Ctrl-E if one wishes. This way you can use it any way you feel and have the best of all worlds.

[harrybasset]

It is purely my personal preference but the ideal for me were the Alphasim products such as the Skywarrior, Neptune, Delta Dart, Destroyer etc. They met my requirements for simple flying. We all look for different things in our flight simulations. Some want a simple life others want to devote a lot of time and effort to master and get the best out of concentrating on types such as F-100s or F-4s. The beauty of our hobby is that developers work very hard to meet our needs and preferences so we should support them as much as we can.

[blkbart]

....if there are many others who like me would like to see developers make two versions of their aircraft? What I mean is that what about a "lite" version for guys like me who could care less about looking under the cowling, looking a the machine guns, etc. Same thing with all the animations when I leave the aircraft. I have no need for the chocks, pitot tube cover, etc., showing up when I shut it down because I don't shut it down. I just close out the flight.

At the beginning of the flight, I prefer that all systems are up, switches on, and the engine running. I simply want to go fly the airplane.

This may not be an option for the developers but, I just wanted to share my thoughts and get the thoughts of others. That is, of course, if I'm not a minority of one.

RD

I agree with you. I like to just go fly--always have. I spent 35 years flying airplanes ranging from the C-119 to the MD-80 and cannot say I really enjoyed the act of the walk-around, engine start, run-up and so forth. The joy--to me--is from takeoff to landing. What I really like to see is a set-up like the MILVIZ F-100D where the developers have gone to great lengths to accommodate both the "kick the tires" crowd and also those who are looking for more systems immersion.

[alehead]

I am definitely a systems nut.

I want it as closely modelled to the real thing as is possible. It is why I like the A2A aircraft (have almost every one of them), the PMDG 737s, the Majestic Q400 Pro version... I'll fire up any one of those for a short flight around the block if all I have is 30 minutes or so in the evening. It is the immersion experience I am after. I like the idea of virtual aircraft ownership that accusim and so on offers.

There is definitely a lot of work involved in making essentially 2 versions of any aircraft. Some developers simply do not want to take on the extra work as the return on investment just doesn't make it worth it. Some do it as a labour of love and we get to profit from that. I can understand and happily live with that. I take what I can get and am grateful to find there are enough offers that suit my tastes as well. We are lucky to have this...

This is a good thread, I am glad it has not been closed down...

A

[DaveB]

RD..

In my experience.. there aren't that many models out there that demand either procedural starts or flying as a pre-requisite. The only one I have that has no short-cuts is the Majestic Q400 and you don't buy that type of model without expecting switches to be flicked! That said.. I've never read the manual for it There are alternative Dash8's out there.. just not by Majestic.

What is it you're looking for.. 'lite' systems, 'lite' price or both?? You can pretty much jump in and fly anything from Milviz, A2A, Cerasim, Nemeth, AH, JF, Aerosoft, Classics Hangar, Flight Replicas, Warbirdsim and on and on. One model I would buy is the Dodo Bell 206 but I know it's a procedural sim (no shortcuts) so have kept away. It's not like there aren't other 206's

If everything available required in-depth systems knowledge and a fortnight at ground school.. I'd have a lot more money and a lot more disc space
ATB
DaveB

[rdaniell]

RD..

In my experience.. there aren't that many models out there that demand either procedural starts or flying as a pre-requisite. The only one I have that has no short-cuts is the Majestic Q400 and you don't buy that type of model without expecting switches to be flicked! That said.. I've never read the manual for it There are alternative Dash8's out there.. just not by Majestic.

What is it you're looking for.. 'lite' systems, 'lite' price or both?? You can pretty much jump in and fly anything from Milviz, A2A, Cerasim, Nemeth, AH, JF, Aerosoft, Classics Hangar, Flight Replicas, Warbirdsim and on and on. One model I would buy is the Dodo Bell 206 but I know it's a procedural sim (no shortcuts) so have kept away. It's not like there aren't other 206's

If everything available required in-depth systems knowledge and a fortnight at ground school.. I'd have a lot more money and a lot more disc space
ATB
DaveB

OK Guys, Willy was correct to not close this thread as there has been some good discussion of our hobby. However, one more time, I was only wondering if there were others like me who simply want to Start FSX, select an airplane and airport, start at the end of the active runway with everything ready to go flying and then go flying. My apologies if that was not stated clearly in my OP.

I soloed in 1963 and have flown simple and complex aircraft since then. The walk around and preflight was not "fun." Starting the aircraft was not fun. Taxing out to the active and run up was not fun. The fun and/or enjoyment began the moment the throttle was pushed forward for the takeoff. At no time was taxing fun as all that meant was increased fuel consumption or rental costs if it was a rental aircraft.

BTW, DaveB, You are absolutely correct. ("If everything available required in-depth systems knowledge and a fortnight at ground school.. I'd have a lot more money and a lot more disc space") If that were the case, I would have one (1) airplane on my hard drive. My favorite Cessna 140 which I went to Sun and Fun on back in 2008.

RD

[dougal]

I think this is an excellent thread and a great idea. I've often wished the same myself about many of the top notch payware aircraft I've purchased. There's many a time I simply don't have the time (or desire) to go through a full start procedure. Then I'd love nothing more than to jump in the hot seat and hit Ctrl E ;-)

With my A2A addons that allow it, I'll often remove the accusim element for a while.

Alas though..... I'm also one of those stated above - Can't please me all the time. I'm also the guy asking for a systems depth DH Mosquito, so..... ;-)

[b52bob]

"You can please some people some of the time but not all all the time".

there are times I want to ctrl-e and other times I want to go through the checklist. I love devs who easily allow both.

[WarHorse47]

"You can please some people some of the time but not all all the time".

there are times I want to ctrl-e and other times I want to go through the checklist. I love devs who easily allow both.

That's what I said.... I think... Let me look at my notes...