Sim-Outhouse's Interest in the RTRW

[Milton Shupe]

Milton, I saw you practicing online last night, you are using the old version of the duenna which is no longer valid (as it doesn't produce a proper jpeg output).

Be sure you update to the latest one.

http://www.fsrtwrace.com/duenna.php

Cheers,

Thank you for the reminder. Downloaded, installed, tested okay. :-)

[Milton Shupe]

Out of 14 that expressed interest in racing this year, only 7 have shown up to fly about 40% of the race the first 24 hours. Its quite the marathon with so few people covering a 24 hour day.

We have another 36 hours roughly to complete the race. If you expressed interest and are up-to-speed with aircraft and rules, please jump in.

[MaddogK]

Looks like I killed it this time. Was dinking around with the PC Friday night chasing a graphics card problem I've had for a couple years now and I pushed it too hard this time. Am pretty sure I lost the mobo this time. I can only hope my HDD still works as I've got 2 years on the Fox project for macrobertson and no backup. Sorry I missed the race, I can't believe it's over already.

[Milton Shupe]

Looks like I killed it this time. Was dinking around with the PC Friday night chasing a graphics card problem I've had for a couple years now and I pushed it too hard this time. Am pretty sure I lost the mobo this time. I can only hope my HDD still works as I've got 2 years on the Fox project for macrobertson and no backup. Sorry I missed the race, I can't believe it's over already.

Sorry to hear about your issues and hoping for the best possible result.

Yes, the races are getting shorter thanks to the Executive committee's decisions the last couple years to make changes to improve race times.
There were years when the race went until Wednesday morning; not good.

No one is happier than we are that the race is now completed.
The low participation this year for SOH and Flightsim will likely kill this annual event unless something changes.

[Moses03]

Hey Guys, had hoped to help out Sunday afternoon like I did last year but real life got in the way and was not able to participate. Congrats on a job well done.

[Kowalski65]

I must apoligise for not participating,s despite showing an interest,family circumstances conspired against me-I couldnt even get to a PC to check the progress!
Bizarrely the shorter race didnt help me as I could have jumped in today, but very well done to the pilots who did fly

[Willy]

Congrats Guys!

I was watching from the sidelines, but the way life has been around here for the past few years, if I was to have the baton, some "disaster" would occur around that would require my immediate attention.

I keep hoping things will be different every year.

Willy

[MaddogK]

The low participation this year for SOH and Flightsim will likely kill this annual event unless something changes.

Oh don't say that. These annual events still hold the community together, and to even think of killing the biggest one of the year off would be enough to fracture the community permanently. Maybe in the hideout we can toss around some ideas to get participation up.

[HarleyDude]

I have enjoyed SOH and the RTRW flights and while I have never participated I have followed the efforts of the participants with interest. If I may offer some observations and possible solutions to promote this and other similar events. 1) Offer a tutorial on how to get involved. Explain what is required and how to set up a computer to compete in a race event. 2) Explain and teach what skills are required for a person to compete. 3) Offer smaller races thru out the year using stock MSF aircraft to help the neophyte racer get experience. 4) Offer a running commentary on the race. Audience participation draws interest which will bring participation at the racer level. 5) Race result announced in a timely fashion with all participants recognized for their efforts. This should be done all of the team websites. These are just a few thoughts and are not meant as criticism, just observations from one enjoys flight simming who would like to see this grow. Thank You to Team Out-House for your time and efforts. Harley Dude

[Milton Shupe]

Oh don't say that. These annual events still hold the community together, and to even think of killing the biggest one of the year off would be enough to fracture the community permanently. Maybe in the hideout we can toss around some ideas to get participation up.

Well, those are lofty ideals my friend. I would like the 4 Flightsim participants who had to pause their progress at the halfway point out of sheer exhaustion to weigh in on this.

When we commit to a race, we need "teams", not idealists, to fly 24x7 for 54+ hours. If we had known that only half a team would show up, we would not have committed.

You and others above who expressed interest failed their team. Expressing interest is not helpful; being on the team is.

A lot of people were watching while only a few paid the price. Where were the "interested" players when we had one person flying back to back legs with penalties because the other team members were exhausted and trying to catch 2-4 hours sleep.

That is the reality regardless of the ideals.

Will there be another event? Who knows. Will we be skeptical about flying again in this event with "interested" participants? You bet.

We all have "real lives", not just those who did not show. The difference is, we made a commitment and stuck to it. No excuses.

[Milton Shupe]

I have enjoyed SOH and the RTRW flights and while I have never participated I have followed the efforts of the participants with interest. If I may offer some observations and possible solutions to promote this and other similar events. 1) Offer a tutorial on how to get involved. Explain what is required and how to set up a computer to compete in a race event. 2) Explain and teach what skills are required for a person to compete. 3) Offer smaller races thru out the year using stock MSF aircraft to help the neophyte racer get experience. 4) Offer a running commentary on the race. Audience participation draws interest which will bring participation at the racer level. 5) Race result announced in a timely fashion with all participants recognized for their efforts. This should be done all of the team websites. These are just a few thoughts and are not meant as criticism, just observations from one enjoys flight simming who would like to see this grow. Thank You to Team Out-House for your time and efforts. Harley Dude

All great ideas HD; I think that would be helpful as many feel intimidated with the requirements and demands. It's a lot easier than what is perceived. Thanks for your comments.

[MaddogK]

Well, those are lofty ideals my friend. I would like the 4 Flightsim participants who had to pause their progress at the halfway point out of sheer exhaustion to weigh in on this.

When we commit to a race, we need "teams", not idealists, to fly 24x7 for 54+ hours. If we had known that only half a team would show up, we would not have committed.

You and others above who expressed interest failed their team. Expressing interest is not helpful; being on the team is.

A lot of people were watching while only a few paid the price. Where were the "interested" players when we had one person flying back to back legs with penalties because the other team members were exhausted and trying to catch 2-4 hours sleep.

That is the reality regardless of the ideals.

Will there be another event? Who knows. Will we be skeptical about flying again in this event with "interested" participants? You bet.

We all have "real lives", not just those who did not show. The difference is, we made a commitment and stuck to it. No excuses.

Understood.

That's why I suggested the hideout. I feel your frustration and don't want it to turn to apathy, like mine did. My PC problem this year was a complete surprise, tho I won't offer any further explanation about it. Doo-doo happens.

[Milton Shupe]

Understood.

That's why I suggested the hideout. I feel your frustration and don't want it to turn to apathy, like mine did. My PC problem this year was a complete surprise, tho I won't offer any further explanation about it. Doo-doo happens.

I understand your issue and was not targeting that specifically. I know you understand the work and dedication to pull off these events as you have flown many years. I am not angry with anyone but frustrated about how we were left holding the bag.

[PRB]

Understood.

That's why I suggested the hideout. I feel your frustration and don't want it to turn to apathy, like mine did. My PC problem this year was a complete surprise, tho I won't offer any further explanation about it. Doo-doo happens.

Hi MD. In past years I would agree with you that this discussion should be in our "hide out". But this year was different. Have we ever had a team have to suspend operations due to pilot exhaustion, as FlightSim had to do? In truth it very nearly came to that for us this year. This time, the discussion needs to be here, in public. Unless we come up with ideas to get people involved, this will be the last event. People don't want to spend four days glued to their computer, so they stay away, but if more people were involved, everyone would get more rest. So, a "negative feedback loop" has taken hold, and that ends only one way...

[MaddogK]

I understand your issue and was not targeting that specifically. I know you understand the work and dedication to pull off these events as you have flown many years. I am not angry with anyone but frustrated about how we were left holding the bag.

Look on the bright side, as history has taught us SOH comes roaring back after a dismal showing a year earlier. I wouldn't be a bit ashamed about a 2nd place showing, it was a herculean effort by a few and we all appreciate the effort. Congrads.

[Milton Shupe]

You are correct of course MaddogK. Even as we speak, things are happening to better prepare for the next year.

HD made some great suggestions, many very close to what was already being discussed by some.

There is hope. :-)

[MaddogK]

Hi MD. In past years I would agree with you that this discussion should be in our "hide out". But this year was different. Have we ever had a team have to suspend operations due to pilot exhaustion, as FlightSim had to do? In truth it very nearly came to that for us this year. This time, the discussion needs to be here, in public. Unless we come up with ideas to get people involved, this will be the last event. People don't want to spend four days glued to their computer, so they stay away, but if more people were involved, everyone would get more rest. So, a "negative feedback loop" has taken hold, and that ends only one way...

I'll let those who participated rest up first. I'm sure the conversation will be more meaningful when your speaking from the heart instead from a point of near exhaustion and frustration with many of us who couldn't, or didn't show. I just don't want to hear that the event is dead, from those who may be angry, tired, frustrated, or whatever. Sitting in front of a PC for 4 solid days only to lose isn't the main reason many don't come back every year, it's deeper than that. When your rested we'll see if the conversation can get meaningful instead of where it'll undoubtedly go this close to the finish.

[PRB]

... Sitting in front of a PC for 4 solid days only to lose isn't the main reason many don't come back every year, it's deeper than that...

Bingo... This is where we need to go, and publicly. Perhaps in the days ahead, after we're rested....

[PRB]

I have enjoyed SOH and the RTRW flights and while I have never participated I have followed the efforts of the participants with interest. If I may offer some observations and possible solutions to promote this and other similar events. 1) Offer a tutorial on how to get involved. Explain what is required and how to set up a computer to compete in a race event. 2) Explain and teach what skills are required for a person to compete. 3) Offer smaller races thru out the year using stock MSF aircraft to help the neophyte racer get experience. 4) Offer a running commentary on the race. Audience participation draws interest which will bring participation at the racer level. 5) Race result announced in a timely fashion with all participants recognized for their efforts. This should be done all of the team websites. These are just a few thoughts and are not meant as criticism, just observations from one enjoys flight simming who would like to see this grow. Thank You to Team Out-House for your time and efforts. Harley Dude

Hi HD. Thanks for your observations. I think you have some great ideas here. Some of them we have been doing, sort of, in the form of race events we host here in the summer. But even these have been dwindling over the past couple years, and they have been designed only "incidentally" as RTW training events. What you have outlined above is exactly what is needed, IMO. A "RTW Race Marshall Plan", as it were. We have a year to figure it out. When we do, I expect to see you there, with goggles and charts!

[HarleyDude]

Well, I appreciate the encouragement and would like to try my hand at cross country racing. As I see it (from an outsiders point of view) it boils down to an aircraft, weather, the duenna, and the course. A possible course of instruction could be as follows: For the sake of argument and instruction the "student" aircraft would be the MSF stock Mooney. Everyone uses the same aircraft. The "students" would all face the same weather say MSF default "Fair". The Course would be preselected and posted to included say three or four stops at specific airports. With the unknown being how to use the Duenna. The "student" would then be instructed in tutorials on how to install the Duenna software and its use. They would then fly the course posting the results. The "instructor" could then evaluate the "students" progress. Once this is mastered then the same thing could be done with weather software. The goal is to add positive reinforcement to the "student" pilot as they progress to being an accomplished RTW pilot. Other factors on longer distant races such as route selection, altitude and weather reading as well as aircraft selection could be added in additional tutorials. A mentoring system by veteran pilots would work well in this process. As I stated in an earlier post shorter races could be held with different classes of aircraft giving the "new" race pilots experience and confidence to compete in the Round the World Race. Positive reinforcement is a must. Please feel free to kick this idea around. As I see it our goal is to bring more pilots to flight simming and expand the RTW pilot pool. Happy Flying!!!!

[robert41]

Before the RTW racing, I started with the smaller events.
Setting up the duenna was simple and straightforward.
Starting with a easy to fly aircraft like DCC's P38. Depending on the event, what aircraft to fly.
And a lot of practice.

[Milton Shupe]

Before the RTW racing, I started with the smaller events.
Setting up the duenna was simple and straightforward.
Starting with a easy to fly aircraft like DCC's P38. Depending on the event, what aircraft to fly.
And a lot of practice.

Good point Robert, and thank you for all your efforts this year. That was greatly appreciated.

One thing not to overlook is using Teamspeak and a head set with a boom mike. You get lots of knowledge by being able to converse with the other guys racing about race conditions, local target airport wx, flying tips for each aircraft, routing, coordination for takeoff and landing (formation and team flights) and the joy of being with the team vocally.

http://www.teamspeak.com/

You can get a nice, light-weight head set with boom mike from Wal-Mart for $20. That investment pays off every flight you use it. Light weight is important as you have it on so much. Don't over-invest.

[srgalahad]

HD, Thanks for the "outsider" comments. Often people forget what it was like before they got involved. We also tend to run into a lot of time pressure from January to Race week and it's not easy to keep up with the promotional side of things.
In fact, much of what you suggest is already in place, although not in a single place ( it tends to be 'organic' instead of 'logical') but let me point out a few of those things.

I have enjoyed SOH and the RTRW flights and while I have never participated I have followed the efforts of the participants with interest. If I may offer some observations and possible solutions to promote this and other similar events. 1) Offer a tutorial on how to get involved. Explain what is required and how to set up a computer to compete in a race event. 2) Explain and teach what skills are required for a person to compete.

This is, in part, covered here: http://www.fsrtwrace.com/about.php

It is also explained in more depth in both this server and on the .net (flight center) forums but much is either buried in the pages of the forums, or tucked in the Team private forum because that's where everyone heads when they think of racing. (we'll get someone on that project!)
In the interim, the Duenna information and download is here: http://www.fsrtwrace.com/duenna.php and instructions are included in the download. Set-up and use are pretty straightforward. There's a bit more work to set yourself up with a username and "select an event" but again, it's not overly complicated. The Duenna can be used outside of racing if you want to track your own flights for learning purposes although we tend to worry a bit about loading the Duenna server with too much data.

Additionally, we have, over the years posted announcements and pleas for participants across the various sim forums (newshawks, FS2004, FSX) with very little response and I'm afraid that, after a time there comes a feeling of 'beating a dead horse'. (So we're glad you spoke up!).

3) Offer smaller races thru out the year using stock MSF aircraft to help the neophyte racer get experience.

SOH is THE headquarters for off-season events. Much of the work is done by RTWR racers and the Exec Committee because it's what we like to do. Each event is discussed, posted and generally tracked in this forum. Most of these events are specifically set to accommodate neophytes and there's much help available from the competitors. Here are a couple of links to recent ones:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...est-Pacific-II
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...Up-for-October
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...ntal-Announced

Your point about short, one/two day or minimal-leg events is very good and not beyond reach. We tend to power-out for a while after the RTWR but maybe we'll "draft" as an 'intern' you to keep us interested - that way you get the full learning experience

4) Offer a running commentary on the race. Audience participation draws interest which will bring participation at the racer level.

We've considered some form of live-streaming with commentary, but it's hard to find and keep the extra personnel to provide that. People seem to think that flying is the only worthwhile part of racing or that 'there's no place for non-racers". However, there is a "live feed" that's pretty accurate for aircraft positions at: http://www.fsrtwrace.com/followrace.php along with the penalty/bonus bank display.

5) Race result announced in a timely fashion with all participants recognized for their efforts. This should be done all of the team websites.

This is done as soon as possible and often gets the best response of the year (after the fact though...). This year, the results are delayed, as is Team FlightSim. They have stated their desire and intent to finish the race and we have a lot of respect for their determination. Once they arrive at MRLB we'll have Official Results and the awarding of trophies.

These are just a few thoughts and are not meant as criticism,

None taken. It's rewarding to see a different point of view and, as I said, some valid observations.

Rob
Team SOH
RTWR Exec. Committee

[srgalahad]

Good point Robert, and thank you for all your efforts this year. That was greatly appreciated.

One thing not to overlook is using Teamspeak and a head set with a boom mike. You get lots of knowledge by being able to converse with the other guys racing about race conditions, local target airport wx, flying tips for each aircraft, routing, coordination for takeoff and landing (formation and team flights) and the joy of being with the team vocally.

http://www.teamspeak.com/

You can get a nice, light-weight head set with boom mike from Wal-Mart for $20. That investment pays off every flight you use it. Light weight is important as you have it on so much. Don't over-invest.

HAH HAH! What amazing timing for that suggestion Milton!
I was just reading a comment from another team:
"As it turned out, TeamSpeak was *the* important tool of the race this year. Most of the planning was done on the way, in TeamSpeak, all of the flight-bookings, all of the background helping, scouting, etc. This kept the forums clean of idle chatter, but it also kept them almost sterile, so much that “outsiders” almost wouldn’t see the work and excitement behind the scenes."

It followed an earlier comment:
"- We need more pilots. Most of the flights were done by a few people. Not only did this limit the number of people involved, but it also led to some exhaustion - I recall someone falling asleep at the yoke and having to refly a leg."

The source?? John Mueller (creator of the Duenna), FlightSim post race comments, June 2005

[srgalahad]

[QUOTE=MaddogK;1009573]I wouldn't be a bit ashamed about a 2nd place showing, [./QUOTE]

Let me put that 2nd (unofficially) place in perspective.

The Elapsed time difference between us and AvSim was 3 hrs 13 minutes. There are three parts to this:

Routing: Because of choices AvSim was faster between Newfoundland and Croatia (CYYR/CCE4) and LDRO by 1+05.
Martin is sitting in a hotel in Japan muttering "if I'd only seen that..." and we discussed it during the race. However, if there had been 4 or five or ten people testing plans instead of one or two, it might well have been noticed. Planners need not be flyers, either, but they seem scarce.

Penalties, etc. We incurred penalties and "wait time", reduced by the few bonuses we could earn with a pilot shortage to the net amount of 1+07
3:13 -(1:05+1:07) = 1:01

That's the flight time deficit! A fair bit, you say?
Over 54 hours that's just a minute and a few seconds PER HOUR!
Alternatively, over 34 legs, that's less than 2 minutes per leg!

Pretty damn good flying, but not quite enough. Realistically, the difference was often taking a bit more time because we were tired or plain 'punchy'.
Can we get better by 2 minutes per leg? I think so - if we practice and have enough pilots that are rested.

Who says a few seconds don't matter.