Martin Mariner
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Thread: Martin Mariner

  1. #1

    Martin Mariner

    I've been working on this bird for a while now, and having seen what great reference the SOH community is able to provide, thought I should make a post about it here. I plan on making all versions of the PBM family, if I can, but for now I have no blueprints for either the PBM-5a (Which rather ironically is the only one I've built so far) or the PBM-1, and no cockpit pictures for the latter. Basically all I know about the PBM-1 is that it carries 4,000 lbs less of bombs than the others and I've heard that they had carpets in the cockpit, to improve sound-proofing. The model is not finished, and I want to make a detailed interior. I have yet to make the trim tabs, and am having a lot of trouble getting the shape of the inboard flaps right, and the overall flap retraction mechanism.



    I made most of the model from scratch in blender, with B25Mitch from BeamNG.drive helping me with the bombs and PA_Jeromino from SAS1946 helping me with the engine cylinders. I have not yet made the propellers.

    I want to add it into FSX after it's finished, since the only PBMs we have for it are FS2004 natives that don't really match the overall shape (Or profile) of the aircraft. However, FSX is not really my priority, as I'm trying to add it to games that would be easier to get it in first, them move on to FSX. I'm mostly here because there's not a lot of information on this bird, or pictures, or blueprints. While I have the PBM-5 flight manual, it is for the seaplane variant and offers nothing when it comes to the amphibious one, and all the pictures I have of the interior are either schematics from said manual (Which are helpful for the panel, but not really for anything else) and a couple of inside shots of a stripped down Mariner with no bombing equipment, and even those only show the nose and cockpit. If anyone has any pictures, blueprints, or anything at all that might help, I'd appreciate it. I'm strongly considering buying Virtavia's SP-5B, since it and the PBM-3/5 had the same wing, so I'd be able to understand how the flaps work.
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  2. #2
    Maty,

    I'm sorry I can't help, but anyone doing the old seaplanes is tops in my book. I can remember seeing four of the Mariners sitting on the ramp at NAS Norfolk way back when I was in the Navy (circa 1962). I hope you get some replies to help you in your quest.
    Cheers,
    Joe

  3. #3
    The Virtavia Martin Mars has always been one of my favorites. Well done on the Mariner!!

  4. #4
    Maty, you should check with the Emil Buehler Library at the National Naval Aviation Museum:
    library.research@smtp.cnet.navy.mil
    They may have useful details on the PBM-1 and -5, including cockpit photos. There are 55 photos and other items that come up when you do a search for "PBM Mariner" on the library page of the museum website:
    http://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/e...ehler-library/

  5. #5
    Wow!

    You have made a lot of progress on that. And the work shows.

    The Blender -> FSX Workflow is actually becoming one of the most straightforward. You really need to take a look at the Blender forum at fsdeveloper.

    There's a toolset, that is incorporated as an add-on for Blender. From that point, all of your UV/Textures, Animations, everything can be exported directly to an FSX model file. Including the interior/virtual cockpit, once you get there.

    Good luck!

    It's good to see another Blender artist working for FSX.

    - Joseph
    VFR Simulations
    www.vfrsim.com



  6. #6
    Very impressive.
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  7. #7
    Great work! Keep us posted!

    Cheers,
    Mark
    My scenery development galleries:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x0skkam7xu8zz8r/DFwnonB1nH

    Solomon 1943 V2 Open beta download: http://www.sim-outhouse.net/download...on-1943-V2.zip
    Solomon 1943 V2 update 2013-02-05 download: http://www.sim-outhouse.net/download...2013-02-05.zip


    Current Project: DHC-4 / C-7a Caribou by Tailored Radials
    Dev-Gallery at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qjdtcoxeg...bAG-2V4Ja?dl=0

  8. #8
    It looks great already ! I'm glad to read that you plan to buid a detailled interior (which hopefully includes the cockpit )
    The shape of that plane, seen from the front, is really impressive.
    I believe there's also a Russian seaplane which has a similar wing shape, isn't there ?

  9. #9
    That looks very nice virtavia do a freeware one for fs9 3/4 of the way down the list http://www.virtavia.com/Freeware/

  10. #10
    Maty, that is looking awesome Sir! I did not know you were into this craft. I know from your comments in other places that you have an eye for detail and accuracy and the tenacity to see it through. I applaud your efforts to-date and look forward to testing this in the future. "Turnabout is fair play"! LOL

    Great progress and a great subject; thank you.
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    My Uploads at SOH - Here
    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners

  11. #11
    Hi Maty,

    Looks great! As the Dutch Naval Air Force flew them in our former colony New Guinea I'm always interested in that plane, for an ex-Mariner pilot has been a colleague during the time I worked for Fokker Aircraft Company.

    If you google: "https://www.google.nl/#q=MLD+Martin+Mariner" you may find some interesting links, if you need translation let me know. It was not a plane that has brought much luck, most of them crashed, due to the fact that it was too heavy (the landinggear) and/or underpowered.

    hertzie.

  12. #12
    Thanks for the kind words, guys, it means a lot. I don't really know how to add multiple quotes to a single message, so I'll have to do this without the quotes.

    Joe, I'd love to hear more about NAS Norfolk. I do have some pictures from there that show a LOT of Mariners. If you want to, I could send you the link.

    TARPSBird, I will be sure to check that out

    Joseph, I'm glad to hear about that. That might mean FSX is actually easier to make mods for than the other games I planned on.

    Mark, I love your Solomon 1943 map, glad you like my work as well.

    Daube, that would be the Beriev Be-6. I made the same mistake before, as they are very similar. Yes, I do plan on adding a cockpit. If any of you have the XB-15 for FSX, I plan on making an interior like it has.

    Erican, Virtavia used to be called Alphasim in their freeware days. I did mention theirs in the original post. They also publicly released all their models with a "Do whatever you want with them" license, and until I come across better reference for them, I am using their tires and landing lights as a stand-in

    Milton, glad to hear you like it. I don't think I'll be able to make this Shupe quality, but I'll try my best.

    Hertzie, that is great news. About your pilot friend, not the Mariners' bad luck. Indeed I do hear it had some heavy gear, 1,900 kg, if I'm not mistaken. I think something that also helped contribute to that "luck" was something mentioned in the flight manual. If the wing tanks are overfilled, the gas will leak over the wing and may cause a fire.

  13. #13
    Here is the correct configuration for the PBM-5A. The radar housing atop the front fuselage as you have configured was found on some "S" models. As you will note the "A" model which was an earlier version, had the very large housing as shown in the photo.

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    Here is the pilot's panel:

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    mal
    Last edited by mal998; December 13th, 2015 at 08:55.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mal998 View Post
    Here is the correct configuration for the PBM-5A. The radar housing atop the front fuselage as you have configured was found on some "S" models. As you will note the "A" model which was an earlier version, had the very large housing as shown in the photo.



    mal
    Hi, Mal. Thanks for the schematics of the landing gear. Yes, I am aware most PBM-5a's had the early style radar pod, but almost all the 3d I did was using the last surviving Mariner, BuNo 122071:


    As you can probably tell, it is a lot different from your typical 5a, and I thought it was one of the 4 converted PBM-5S's, but cross-checking the serials proved it was built as a 5a. Perhaps a civil conversion? I do know for a fact that all bombing and gunnery equipment was removed from it, but I think the turrets were never even attached to it. A detail I hadn't noticed at first is that 122071 has shorter gear covers. Again, not sure why. Pictures of her before being donated are hard to come by, as is information on it. As for the manual extracts, from what I can tell they are from the regular PBM-5's flight manual, which I found here: http://www.seawings.co.uk/images/man...%20Mariner.pdf

    P.S. Did I read that right? It had reversing propellers? like on the Constellation?

    P.P.S. Now that I think about it, any close-ups of the gear covers'd be extremely useful, since all I have is this (Scroll down until the PBM):
    http://www.air-and-space.com/19460622%20GEARL.htm
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1669984.jpg  

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TARPSBird View Post
    Maty, you should check with the Emil Buehler Library at the National Naval Aviation Museum:
    library.research@smtp.cnet.navy.mil
    They may have useful details on the PBM-1 and -5, including cockpit photos. There are 55 photos and other items that come up when you do a search for "PBM Mariner" on the library page of the museum website:
    http://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/e...ehler-library/

    I put "PBM Mariner" in the SEARCH box of your library link and all I could get was "Sorry, we can't find anything".

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by glh View Post
    I put "PBM Mariner" in the SEARCH box of your library link and all I could get was "Sorry, we can't find anything".
    Try searching for just "PBM", that's what I did. However, no results were pictures of the PBM-1. I plan on contacting them so see if they have any.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maty12 View Post
    Try searching for just "PBM", that's what I did. However, no results were pictures of the PBM-1. I plan on contacting them so see if they have any.

    Same Result. "Sorry, we can't find anything". But I wish you the best in your efforts.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by glh View Post
    Same Result. "Sorry, we can't find anything". But I wish you the best in your efforts.
    Use the search box at the bottom of the page, not the one at the top.

  19. #19
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  20. #20
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    Maty12, I think I love you!

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Domingue View Post
    Maty12, I think I love you!
    I know.

    Man, I waited forever to be able to use that quote. Anyway thanks, everyone, for the kind wishes and kind words. I will try my best to see this through.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWG View Post
    Use the search box at the bottom of the page, not the one at the top.
    DaveWG:

    Thank You. I did not scroll to the bottom of the page and therefore did not realize there was a 2nd box. Somewhat strange that there were different search results from both boxes.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by hertzie View Post
    Hi Maty,

    Looks great! As the Dutch Naval Air Force flew them in our former colony New Guinea I'm always interested in that plane, for an ex-Mariner pilot has been a colleague during the time I worked for Fokker Aircraft Company.

    If you google: "https://www.google.nl/#q=MLD+Martin+Mariner" you may find some interesting links, if you need translation let me know. It was not a plane that has brought much luck, most of them crashed, due to the fact that it was too heavy (the landinggear) and/or underpowered.

    hertzie.
    Hertzie, I did and oddly, most planes seem to have the shorter gear covers and late radar pod, like 122071. Was this production block related? Perhaps a field modification?
    https://modelbrouwers.nl/media/album...5M-Mariner.jpg

    Do you think your colleague would mind talking to me about his plane? You know, I am pretty talented when it comes to skins and liveries, I could probably make his plane. On a side note, the Mariner does look very good in silver and black. Nice choice of paintscheme by the Dutch Navy.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Maty12 View Post

    I know.

    [...]

    I know??? Ha!!! How about something like that:

    "Oh, I'm awfully sorry. I'm already spoken for by a rich, old widow from Crabapple Cove, Maine".


    Jokes aside, this is a great thread to follow. The C-47 VC, the P-39, the C-119, and probably a few others my brain can't come up with now. What I particularly like is that you do it in Blender, I think that's a first around here for such a project. I made some static scenery objects in Blender a few years ago, just to check it as an alternative to 3dsmax. I couldn't really adapt to it, but that's just me. Maybe the step from one weirdness to another was too big.


    Cheers,
    Mark
    My scenery development galleries:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x0skkam7xu8zz8r/DFwnonB1nH

    Solomon 1943 V2 Open beta download: http://www.sim-outhouse.net/download...on-1943-V2.zip
    Solomon 1943 V2 update 2013-02-05 download: http://www.sim-outhouse.net/download...2013-02-05.zip


    Current Project: DHC-4 / C-7a Caribou by Tailored Radials
    Dev-Gallery at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qjdtcoxeg...bAG-2V4Ja?dl=0

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by roger-wilco-66 View Post
    ...I think that's a first around here for such a project. ...

    Cheers,
    Mark
    Mark .. There's been a handful of pretty good Blender models trickle down in the last year. Take a look at Daan's Fokker T.5. Or the Fokker D.21


    - Joseph
    VFR Simulations
    www.vfrsim.com



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