Call for research material... (Fairchild C119G Boxcar)

**Tako_Kichi** · December 8th, 2015, 08:47

I just studied the images that Tankerguy72 linked to and while the text was difficult to read when enlarged I think I've deciphered the control system.

There are two ailerons per wing and they do work in unison.

Part H is actually a Flettner tab (a.k.a. a servo tab) and not an anti-servo tab (they work in the opposite direction).

Interestingly the rudders are also fitted with Flettner tabs but in this case the rudder is actually free-floating and the pilot controls the tab only. Wind deflection then moves the rudder to the required position.

The tab is so far from the rudder hinge point it actually exerts a lot of pressure thanks to leverage and the pilot only has to move a small tab so the controls feel light to him while still having the ability to move the large rudders.

An intriguing arrangement that was also used on the Bristol Britannia and it's Canadian variants.

**DaveB** · December 8th, 2015, 09:44

Indeed mate. One type exerts additional pressure to the controls (which would otherwise be too light) and the other lightens the input needed on what would otherwise be a heavy action. All very clever stuff and far too clever for me!

ATB
DaveB

**tankerguy72** · December 8th, 2015, 15:42

Not sure if these help at all but theyre from the C-82

**tankerguy72** · December 8th, 2015, 21:20

Cant wait to throw some paint the new one. This is a photo real texture I did for the FS9 model a couple years ago.

**Matt Wynn** · December 9th, 2015, 06:25

...they even succeeded in coaxing muggins here out from under my rock!

still very, VERY early days with the girl! lots of lines and rivets to do before I let her anywhere near the simulator! (as well as tidying the AO etc...)

**gaucho_59** · December 9th, 2015, 06:35

Originally Posted by Matt Wynn

...they even succeeded in coaxing muggins here out from under my rock!

still very, VERY early days with the girl! lots of lines and rivets to do before I let her anywhere near the simulator! (as well as tidying the AO etc...)

will follow your progress avidly... Happy Holidays
Carlos

**roger-wilco-66** · December 9th, 2015, 07:05

That looks awesome, Matt!!

**Firekitten** · December 30th, 2015, 17:45

First shots of the cockpit incoming... some parts not mapped, others basic and unfinished (Gauges are placeholder for testing at the moment, we haven't decided if we're going 2d for speed or 3d yet, will see, but she's got her first paint thrown at the vc, rudder pedals are the next task... get them right, then floor...

**tjsdn1375** · January 1st, 2016, 16:02

Originally Posted by Firekitten

First shots of the cockpit incoming... some parts not mapped, others basic and unfinished (Gauges are placeholder for testing at the moment, we haven't decided if we're going 2d for speed or 3d yet, will see, but she's got her first paint thrown at the vc, rudder pedals are the next task... get them right, then floor...

Nice Shot!!!!

**airattackimages** · January 1st, 2016, 18:10

Originally Posted by matt wynn

...they even succeeded in coaxing muggins here out from under my rock!

Still very, very early days with the girl! Lots of lines and rivets to do before i let her anywhere near the simulator! (as well as tidying the ao etc...)

drooling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**tjsdn1375** · January 2nd, 2016, 17:27

hahaha like...

**Maj Kong** · January 3rd, 2016, 12:34

We know E and F are ailerons, G is a regular trim tab while we think H is an anti-servo tab.

What we can't figure out is:

1. Do E and F move together and if so why are they split, what purpose do they serve being in two parts?

2. If H is an anti-servo tab then we assume it works in the opposite direction to the aileron to increase back-pressure on the controls.

Probably built this way to fix some problems that the strange configuration caused. Too much action to control banking/level flight??

Just a guess but my only flight in a C-119 convinced me that something was AWFULLY SCREWY on this plane. It creaked, shook, was LOUD. . D..D..D, and seemed about to fall out of the sky at any moment. Still, it was/is a very capable looking aircraft
There was one upside: several (err, quite a few) of the troops could not face their inflight lunches so the rest of us had plenty of extra. This was a Canadian (RCAF) plane and those folks really knew how to put together a good meal.
I don't recall which was referred to as "the crowd killer". by paratroopers: the C-82, 119, or 124.

Blast!! I could have just quoted falcon409. He said it all in one sentence:
" All I can remember is that I hoped it would stay in one piece til we got home, lol."

***Dangerousdave26*** · January 4th, 2016, 02:41

I have nothing to say

This is a test post to troubleshoot email notifications.

Continue as you were.

***Opus the Pirate Hunter*** · January 4th, 2016, 03:01

Well I can certainly help the next test.

Ignore this as well.

**Milton Shupe** · January 4th, 2016, 06:03

Originally Posted by Dangerousdave26

I have nothing to say

This is a test post to troubleshoot email notifications.

Continue as you were.

Got it; thanks :-)

**mvg3d** · January 4th, 2016, 06:46

Some details from Italian '119.....

**tjsdn1375** · January 5th, 2016, 04:07

Originally Posted by mvg3d

Some details from Italian '119.....

Someone they would let it make?

**tjsdn1375** · January 6th, 2016, 08:03

Originally Posted by Matt Wynn

...they even succeeded in coaxing muggins here out from under my rock!

still very, VERY early days with the girl! lots of lines and rivets to do before I let her anywhere near the simulator! (as well as tidying the AO etc...)

Very Good, Matt!!!

**mvg3d** · January 7th, 2016, 10:17

Hi Friends,
A model without cargo doors (used for heavy loads drop) ?

**johndetrick** · January 7th, 2016, 12:12

Most large transport aircraft have two sets of ailerons. Both are used in low speed flight when you need more surface area to move mass, and one set is locked out for high speed flight when small control deflections are required. The lockout can be a speed switch from the air data/pitot system or as in the case of the DC-8 a spring loaded torsion bar which restricts the inboard aileron as speed is increased and vice versa as speed is decreased.

Just looking at the aircraft

**johndetrick** · January 8th, 2016, 03:08

Sorry about the half finished last post. My battery in the laptop died. It appears the flight controls are not hydraulically assisted. That would make this thing a real beast at low speeds. Looking at the vertical stab and rudder size, I can well imagine that an engine failure just after takeoff was a bit of a hand full. On the Dc-8 which is the oldest thing I have experience with, the elevator was not powered and it was really heavy at low speeds. The aileron and rudder were normally powered. I had the pleasure of flying once with a complete loss of hydraulics, meaning all the flight controls were unpowered. At cruise it was no big deal, however in the approach and pattern when we slowed and configured it became a real upper body and thigh workout to move the ailerons and rudder. I can imagine this thing was no different.

***Motormouse*** · January 9th, 2016, 01:04

Originally Posted by Dangerousdave26

I have nothing to say

This is a test post to troubleshoot email notifications.

Continue as you were.

These are not the droids you're looking for.... Sorry couldn't resist....
Normal service resumes.

Ttfn

Pete

***Motormouse*** · January 9th, 2016, 01:12

Originally Posted by johndetrick

Most large transport aircraft have two sets of ailerons. Both are used in low speed flight when you need more surface area to move mass, and one set is locked out for high speed flight when small control deflections are required. The lockout can be a speed switch from the air data/pitot system or as in the case of the DC-8 a spring loaded torsion bar which restricts the inboard aileron as speed is increased and vice versa as speed is decreased.

Just looking at the aircraft

Actually the reason for locking out the ailerons at wing ends is more to do with reversal caused by wing twist at high speeds. I.e the ailerons act as servo tabs to twist the wing resulting in ailerons reversal.

However, back to the subject in hand, it would seem control loads would be offset with the use of servo and balance tabs, so I would hazard a guess control loads would be similar to any other design of the same age.

Ttfn

Pete