Douglas A20 Havoc

[Milton Shupe]

I received "The Douglas A-20 Havoc" by William Wolf from Santa. If you need any info let me know and I'll see if it's in the book, as it's quite a tome. I won't be able to scan anything until I return from vacation.

Thank you Sundog; I appreciate that :-)

Meanwhile, back in the design hangar, I have started the slow grind of VC interior construction. Building all from scratch of course and you can see I am just getting started with basic infrastructure.

[Milton Shupe]

With blizzard conditions about passed (EDIT: I thought-another 12 inches expected) now but snow accumulating throughout the day, I am diligently working to flesh out the A-20 VC.
I better get that heater installed.

Just getting some of the basics in place here ... and now back to it.

[Tako_Kichi]

Sorry about the snow Milton, the weather is crazy this year. There you are in a southern US desert enduring blizzards while I sit in the Great White North with daffodils and tulips pushing up through the ground in late December!!!!!!! The world's gone mad I tell ya!

We need to spare a thought for all the Brits up to their armpits in flood water too.

BTW that's a nice looking control column/yoke too. I've got to tackle that shortly on our current project.

[huub vink]

Looks very nice Milton!

[txnetcop]

GORGEOUS!!! Remember to relax some too Milton. The last we want is for you to burn out! Wishing you and yours a FANTASTIC NEW YEAR!
Ted

[Milton Shupe]

Taking a break from shoveling snow ... sunshine today but 18" of snow to deal with.

Made some progress last night on fleshing out the basics of the cockpit but still much to do to get the basic infrastructure done.

[tankerguy72]

Nicely done! looks like she was built like a tank

[tjsdn1375]

Goood!!! A-20 Havoc work in progess For FSX SP2????

[Milton Shupe]

Goood!!! A-20 Havoc work in progess For FSX SP2????

LOL No, for FS9 ... although I test and run it as FSX SP2/A port over (I know, that's a dirty word to many FSX'ers :-)

But we FS9'ers will love having it here, I hope. :-)

Project is on hold for a bit while I wrap up changes to the Mallard radial versions.

[nigel richards]

LOL No, for FS9 ... although I test and run it as FSX SP2/A port over (I know, that's a dirty word to many FSX'ers :-)

But we FS9'ers will love having it here, I hope. :-)

Project is on hold for a bit while I wrap up changes to the Mallard radial versions.

HAAA!!!!

"Native" or "Non-Native"; LOL - quaint!...but it's all petty 'pidgin english' as far as I'm concerned, folks.

The exquisite quality, master modeling and accuracy of Milton's creations shine through in any version of FS.

They are and always will be; pure, thoroughbred SHUPE SHIPS, Gentlemen!

As for this latest sublime example of Mastery-in-making;
Just loving the way this beauty's vertices are unveiling a work of ART

'I LOVE SHUPE SHIPS '

[Motormouse]

HAAA!!!!

"Native" or "Non-Native"; LOL - quaint!...but it's all petty 'pidgin english' as far as I'm concerned, folks.

The exquisite quality, master modeling and accuracy of Milton's creations shine through in any version of FS.

They are and always will be; pure, thoroughbred SHUPE SHIPS, Gentlemen!

As for this latest sublime example of Mastery-in-making;
Just loving the way this beauty's vertices are unveiling a work of ART

'I LOVE SHUPE SHIPS '

I'm just amazed how quickly Milton can put something together.

and as an aside.... Don't know bout the rest of you but think we should start posting in that other forum asking if their models will work in our fs9... That should even things up. 


Ttfn

Pete

[Firekitten]

They don't... so when FS9ers ask fsx developers for an fs9 version of an insanely complex aircraft, its a bit annoying.

Backward compatability is a constant, forward doesn't exist.

As for the chap's question, its a fair one, as the mallard went x native too... answer? possibly. Who knows, there's a lot going on right now, but it is considered.

As for native and non native, once you step to p3d, trust me, fsx native is a minimum must... fs9 planes crash it

[nigel richards]

My statements concern modeling prowess :-)

[Firekitten]

Oh certainly, Milton is outdoing himself on this one... in sim its a stunning model for fs9.

[Milton Shupe]

Oh certainly, Milton is outdoing himself on this one... in sim its a stunning model for fs9.

Well, not outdoing myself, but pushing the limits of FS9. We'll see how that ends up. Always a balancing act wanting more detail but trying to stay within the limits. Same with the VC but much harder there with the weld and mesh mangling ways of FS9 exports.

So, my focus is on general overall fidelity of the package rather than exquisite eye candy details not possible in FS9.

[Blackbird686]

So, my focus is on general overall fidelity of the package rather than exquisite eye candy details not possible in FS9.

Hmmm... seems to me that there is a certain "Experimental Republics" package that re-defines "fidelity" vs. "eye candy". "Shupe Industries" produced not only a very accurate representation of what the XP-47 and XP-74 would perform like, based on limited information, but also, exquisitely crafted visual models with "eye-popping" 2D and VC interiors. Nigel's paints on this series were, in my opinion, simply the best I have seen in FS9. Now those planes look real in the sim, not to mention a blast to fly!

None the less, if you really want to talk FSX quality in FS9, which IS possible... there is a certain "Bull Stearman" package done by Douglas Kallen that had just that. There was more detail and an incredible amount of polygons on that model... every line was smooth and the curves were laid out as if they had been hand drawn. Unfortunately, one needed a very strong machine to run this plane in FS9. Without that, it was impossible to appreciate just how much hard work went into producing such an exquisite aircraft for the sim.

In response to an earlier post... It IS possible to make FSX aircraft back compatible with FS9. I have done a few reverse conversions and IT IS A TREMINDOUS CHORE! And in all cases but one... the end result didn't really look as nice in FS9, as it did in FSX. Now... if I really think I want an FSX model, I'll download it and just put it in that sim and leave it.

BB686

[r678idtyj]

If I recall correctly, Bill Ortis of Lionheart Creations experimented with compilers back in the day. He managed to bypass the FS9 compiler's polygon limit and released a freeware Boeing 797 that couldn't have been created using the standard FS9 SDK. It's likely what those other "super-polygonized" aircraft were made with as well.

Just my $.02 but it could be worth a try....

[Milton Shupe]

If I recall correctly, Bill Ortis of Lionheart Creations experimented with compilers back in the day. He managed to bypass the FS9 compiler's polygon limit and released a freeware Boeing 797 that couldn't have been created using the standard FS9 SDK. It's likely what those other "super-polygonized" aircraft were made with as well.

Just my $.02 but it could be worth a try....

Yes, I am familiar with the process he and others used. It is long and cumbersome and a royal PITA and involves several additional technologies. Not for me. There is a reason no one uses that process on a regular basis.

Not knocking all the effort that went into it or those or used it (once?) but if one wants that kind of fidelity, they should build using the FSX or P3D SDKs.

I like building using the FS9 SDK. It's much less complicated and more straight forward. It's not full of issues like the FSX SDK where much time is invested sorting out SDK issues and quirks.

When there are no more FS9'ers around, I'll retire with them. :-)

[Tom Clayton]

I remember a mega-poly Stearman that was released a few (several now?) years back. It was absolutely stunning how much detail was put into moving parts like throttle and mix linkages, and even in the brakes. It was great as a tech demonstrator, but then the trade-off is that it takes (guessing here) 4-5x longer to make a model. Then there's the added size of the package - mega poly models equate to megaBYTE models. Granted, with today's available bandwidth, that's not much of an issue, but if every release was that massive, even terabyte drives would start filling up pretty quick.

I'm glad Milton does things the way he does. The releases are pure pleasure to look at and to fly, due in no small part to the fact that his models are easy on the system. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be dusting off my X-52 when this one come out!

Edit: I just looked in my installation and I still have that Stearman installed! The model is a whopping 21.5 MB! Hiroshi Igami (POSKY/TDS) has a habit of taking his models right up to the limit of the SDK, and his 747-800 freighter in my hanger is 4.78 MB. The default 747 is only 946 KB.

[nigel richards]

I'm glad Milton does things the way he does. The releases are pure pleasure to look at and to fly, due in no small part to the fact that his models are easy on the system. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be dusting off my X-52 when this one come out!

Me too, Tom!

The 'flyability' you mentioned is uncanny - when Milton teams up with Tom Falley, that elusive factor of 'being there' takes on new meaning.

Magic!

LOL; The wip version of the fs9 radial Mallard still has the nudey VC I used during sounds development, but I keep nipping in there for 2+ hourly nightcaps .

Just so much awesome fun from its fabulous realism.

Ahhhhhx! How many hours left till lights out???

[stansdds]

I remember a mega-poly Stearman that was released a few (several now?) years back. It was absolutely stunning how much detail was put into moving parts like throttle and mix linkages, and even in the brakes. It was great as a tech demonstrator, but then the trade-off is that it takes (guessing here) 4-5x longer to make a model. Then there's the added size of the package - mega poly models equate to megaBYTE models. Granted, with today's available bandwidth, that's not much of an issue, but if every release was that massive, even terabyte drives would start filling up pretty quick.

I'm glad Milton does things the way he does. The releases are pure pleasure to look at and to fly, due in no small part to the fact that his models are easy on the system. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be dusting off my X-52 when this one come out!

Edit: I just looked in my installation and I still have that Stearman installed! The model is a whopping 21.5 MB! Hiroshi Igami (POSKY/TDS) has a habit of taking his models right up to the limit of the SDK, and his 747-800 freighter in my hanger is 4.78 MB. The default 747 is only 946 KB.

Yep, I remember that too and the first screen shots of all that detail made a lot of us think that it was being developed for FSX.

[tjsdn1375]

How about the A20 Havoc?

[nigel richards]

How about the A20 Havoc?

Great things take time and a heck of a lot of behind scenes hard work, Sir - patience my friend :-)

[Firekitten]

How about the A20 Havoc?

I have the exterior maps, I haven't had time to get started yet, aside from this I have 3 projects...

Freeware C119 with LDR and the Mallard Turboprop (Four projects if we count the Navion A final touches)

And a Payware project with Iris,

Milton is high on the list, but many of these came onto my desk before the A20 and I have to make some motion.

Will post screenshots as soon as I have anything.

[tjsdn1375]

I have the exterior maps, I haven't had time to get started yet, aside from this I have 3 projects...

Freeware C119 with LDR and the Mallard Turboprop (Four projects if we count the Navion A final touches)

And a Payware project with Iris,

Milton is high on the list, but many of these came onto my desk before the A20 and I have to make some motion.

Will post screenshots as soon as I have anything.

ok I'm ok..!! yes can wait!!!!!