windshield rain effects

[MaddogK]

Hi All,

I need a bit of clarification about the windscreen rain effects doc in Gmax. It says I need to link my glass in the Interior model to a dummy node, that gets linked to yet another dummy node that is called by the game to swap the texture when it's raining yet when I test it in-game my 'clear sky' texture gets swapped as expected, but the rain texture doesn't show. Do I have to use null poly's instead of dummy's ? Do I have to place the rain textures (those TGA's from the Gmax fs2004 kit) into my aircrafts texture folder and/or do I have to convert the TGA's to DXT3's ? I thought when the animation gets called the game uses the textures in the main fs9/texture folder, NOT the aircrafts texture folder.



I've never bothered to use these effects before so I'm a little lost here, can someone help me out a little ?

[Milton Shupe]

Hi All,

I need a bit of clarification about the windscreen rain effects doc in Gmax. It says I need to link my glass in the Interior model to a dummy node, that gets linked to yet another dummy node that is called by the game to swap the texture when it's raining yet when I test it in-game my 'clear sky' texture gets swapped as expected, but the rain texture doesn't show. Do I have to use null poly's instead of dummy's ? Do I have to place the rain textures (those TGA's from the Gmax fs2004 kit) into my aircrafts texture folder and/or do I have to convert the TGA's to DXT3's ? I thought when the animation gets called the game uses the textures in the main fs9/texture folder, NOT the aircrafts texture folder.



I've never bothered to use these effects before so I'm a little lost here, can someone help me out a little ?

Happy to help my friend.

I have attached some screenshots with all the explanations and a gmax example from my D18S with the key nodes and windows showing the hierarchy.

You can merge in the nodes and replace my windows with yours.

Essentially, you have two dummy nodes that must be linked to the Interior node or interior fuselage.
There are two more dummy nodes lower in the hierarchy that will have a copy of your poly-flipped windows (from your exterior model).
One set is for the moving rain effects texture to be applied;
... one set is for the no-rain effect to be applied.

Lastly you must map the windows individually to control rain drop size (do not group map them or you will have very large rain drops unless you keep the maps size small), and the map must be turned so the "tit" on the box points in the direction the rain drops should flow across the window.

[MaddogK]

Happy to help my friend. I have attached some screenshots with all the explanations and a gmax example from my D18S with the key nodes and windows showing the hierarchy. You can merge in the nodes and replace my windows with yours. Essentially, you have two dummy nodes that must be linked to the Interior node or interior fuselage. There are two more dummy nodes lower in the hierarchy that will have a copy of your poly-flipped windows (from your exterior model). One set is for the moving rain effects texture to be applied; ... one set is for the no-rain effect to be applied. Lastly you must map the windows individually to control rain drop size (do not group map them or you will have very large rain drops unless you keep the maps size small), and the map must be turned so the "tit" on the box points in the direction the rain drops should flow across the window.

Hmmm....I have the glass panels grouped with the interior model but I didn't know they actually have to be linked to the interior node. So after I group the interior model I then have to 'open' it and link it to the interior node ? And flip the poly's ? Thats similar to flipped faces (normals), right ? So I'de have to map the poly's (faces) then flip them so the texture would be on the inside of the shape instead of the outside like all other part surfaces ? I'de assume by your reply I don't have to alter the TGA's, just place them in the aircrafts texture folder. I'll have to give this a try, thanks.

[Milton Shupe]

Hmmm....I have the glass panels grouped with the interior model but I didn't know they actually have to be linked to the interior node. So after I group the interior model I then have to 'open' it and link it to the interior node ? And flip the poly's ? Thats similar to flipped faces (normals), right ? So I'de have to map the poly's (faces) then flip them so the texture would be on the inside of the shape instead of the outside like all other part surfaces ? I'de assume by your reply I don't have to alter the TGA's, just place them in the aircrafts texture folder. I'll have to give this a try, thanks.

The top 2 nodes can be linked to the interior node or the interior high order parent, whatever you call it. Doesn't matter just as long as it belongs to the Interior.

I no longer group the exterior and interior parts; I create an exterior and interior dummy object or small box called by those names and link to them. That avoids most of the repetitive scaling issues.
The nodes should be set at 0,0,0 coordinates and the pivot aligned to World.

Flipping polys: Yes, Just convert the glass to Editable mesh, select the polys in sub-object mode, then flip so the glass surface is facing the inside.
Then map them as I mentioned before.
Apply the appropriate texture. (You create a dummy texture by the appropriate name if you wish, or copy the two main effects textures from the FS9/Texture folder.)

You will NOT create a TGA texture for these effects; they already exist; there are 32 of them in the FS9/Texture folder named vcrainxxxxxxx. You select the high order one to apply; FS does the rest.
You do not need to copy the effects textures to the aircraft folders. FS searches your texture folders; if not found, it searches the FS/Texture folder where it will find all 32 of them.

[MaddogK]

The top 2 nodes can be linked to the interior node or the interior high order parent, whatever you call it. Doesn't matter just as long as it belongs to the Interior. I no longer group the exterior and interior parts; I create an exterior and interior dummy object or small box called by those names and link to them. That avoids most of the repetitive the scaling issues. The nodes should be set at 0,0,0 coordinates and the pivot aligned to World. Flipping polys: Yes, Just convert the glass to Editable mesh, select the polys in sub-object mode, then flip so the glass surface is facing the inside. Then map them as I mentioned before. Apply the appropriate texture. (You create a dummy texture by the appropriate name if you wish, or copy the two main effects textures from the FS9/Texture folder.) You will NOT create a TGA texture for these effects; they already exist; there are 32 of them in the FS9/Texture folder named vcrainxxxxxxx. You select the high order one to apply; FS does the rest. You do not need to copy the effects textures to the aircraft folders. FS searches your texture folders; if not found, it searches the FS/Texture folder where it will find all 32 of them.

Ahh, just exported it again using your instructions but it's still invisible when raining, so I just bumped the opacity up to 37 to see if it helps. Will let ya know. edit- now it's flipping back and forth from invisible to the clear weather texture in the VC, but now I got full raindrops in the 2d cockpit. ??

[Milton Shupe]

Ahh, just exported it again using your instructions but it's still invisible when raining, so I just bumped the opacity up to 37 to see if it helps. Will let ya know. edit- now it's flipping back and forth from invisible to the clear weather texture in the VC, but now I got full raindrops in the 2d cockpit. ??

\

Opacity should be zero for the two rain effect materials.

You must have this statement in the Effects section of the aircraft.cfg:

windshield_rain_effect_available = 1

[MaddogK]

\ Opacity should be zero for the two rain effect materials. You must have this statement in the Effects section of the aircraft.cfg: windshield_rain_effect_available = 1

headdesk forgot that.

edit- still can't get it to work. Stupid question, does it matter that I don't yet have the glass in the external model ?

[Milton Shupe]

headdesk forgot that.

edit- still can't get it to work. Stupid question, does it matter that I don't yet have the glass in the external model ?

No, only the interior model matters.

Ensure you have a heavy rainfall for testing.

[Milton Shupe]

Ensure your material names are exactly as stated here ending with the underscore:

Animate_VCRainMoving_16_20_	The physical geometry under the airspeed_effects_windshield node need a material name of animate_VCRainMoving_16_20_ and must mapped to texture VCRainMoving0000.bmp. The material needs to be at 0 percent opacity. See the Gmax_aircraft SDK for more details.
Animate_VCRainStopped_16_20_	The physical geometry under the airspeed_effects_windshield node need a material name of animate_VCRainStopped_16_20_ and must mapped to texture VCRainStopped0000.bmp. The material needs to be at 0 percent opacity. See the Gmax_aircraft SDK for more details.

[Milton Shupe]

If you merged my gmax scene to yours, the materials should have come with the parts.

Here is what mine look like when the rain effects parts are merged into my aircraft.

[MaddogK]

I scrapped my copy of the textures, the nodes and all the geometry except the original no-rain pane. I'll merge your nodes and clone my panes and setup the links again with a fresh creation of the materials. maybe it'll start working.


Does this look right ?

Edit- I deleted my rain textures again, and all the nodes, merged your file, grouped it with all my VC parts to 'Interior" and exported it. Didn't work, your glass is as invisible as mine.

*shrug, I dunno.

[Milton Shupe]

Yes, it looks correct.

A couple of comments though:

1) The glass is supposed to be invisible; nothing should show but the rain effects. (remember you have 3 sets of glass to look through so these two need to be zero opacity; they are only there to carry the rain effects)
2) Ensure you are not putting your rain effects textures in the aircraft texture folder. It must use the 2 x 16 sets in the default texture folder
3) When I set up my materials, I browse to the FS9/texture folder to get the names to ensure I have the exact setup it needs.
4) You have a windshield glass in the hierarchy that should not be there (under ambient_noprecip). You can have your interior windshield glass, just do not put it in this hierarchy.
5) Try linking the ambient_noprecip and ambient_rain nodes to your interior fuselage or other high order object.
6) Ensure the two physical dummy nodes at the top of the hierarchy are in front of the aircraft as I show in my post #2 at the start of this thread

[Milton Shupe]

Very interesting; I found Bill Leaming's explanation from back in 2004 (11 years ago!). Thanks for this Bill :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Essentially, the heirarchy is as follows:

interior
.. ambient_noprecip
.. ambient_rain
.... airspeed_effects_windshield
....... windshield_fx
....... windows_left_fx
....... windows_right_fx
.... airspeed_noeffects_windshield
....... windshield_nofx
....... windows_left_nofx
....... windows_right_nofx

Note that the actual *parts* are windshield, windows_left and windows_right. They are copies of the same parts from the "exterior model," but have had their polys flipped. The other "parts" are simply dummy parts that are recognized by the sim at runtime to trigger the display. I've appended _fx or _nofx simply to help keep track of which part is which, and to make the names unique. You can actually call 'em "Fred" if you want...

ambient_noprecip has no "physical part" or "texture" applied.

ambient_rain has two sub-nodes: airspeed_effects_windshield and airspeed_noeffects_windshield.

Each of those two sub-nodes trigger the appropriate texture files, which are applied to the actual parts.

Create a material with the name:
animate_VCRainMoving_16_20_

Map this material to each of the "window parts" and apply the texture VCRainMoving0000.BMP (you will have to convert the .tga file to a .bmp file first!) Also, make sure that the material has ZERO opacity!

Create a material with the name:
animate_VCRainStopped_16_20_

Map this material to each of the "window parts" under this hierarchy and apply the texture VCRainStopped000.BMP. Also, make sure that the material has ZERO opacity!

NOTE: be sure to "rotate" the texture mapping for the left/right side windows so that the TOP of the texture is pointing rearwards. Otherwise the "rain" will be creeping UP the side windows, instead of "streaking" towards the rear!

[MaddogK]

I think I understand now, the mapped objects under the airspeed_effects_windshield and airspeed_noeffects_windshield nodes don't actually have to be 3d objects. They just have to be mapped poly's within the 3d glass object that's shown in the interior model, and that object cannot be within the effect heirarchy, so that those effect poly's (when called) will display within the glass object instead of replacing it.

Which direction should the effect poly's face- toward or away from the pilot ?

[Milton Shupe]

The effects polys are in the exact same position as the glass would be.

[MaddogK]

The effects polys are in the exact same position as the glass would be.

Thanks for all the time explaining this to me, I'm gonna try this again tonight using a 2d poly instead of a copy of a 3d piece of geometry.

[Milton Shupe]

The normals point into the cockpit or cabin ... no need to change anything beyond what the polys do naturally facing inwards.

Remember to map the polys from the inside of the cockpit so that the "tit' at the top of the map box points in the direction you want the rain drops to flow as if the wind is blowing the rain drops along the surface.

[MaddogK]

The normals point into the cockpit or cabin ... no need to change anything beyond what the polys do naturally facing inwards.

Remember to map the polys from the inside of the cockpit so that the "tit' at the top of the map box points in the direction you want the rain drops to flow as if the wind is blowing the rain drops along the surface.

Umm...I just had a revelation. I don't remember if I aligned the glass part axis to the world when I created them, or left them aligned to the model. I feel like an idiot for missing such a basic procedure.

Now that I'm thinking about it, can this effect also work in the exterior and 2d cockpit ? I have an open cockpit with a small windscreen so the rain effect in the 2d cockpit looks kinda weird.

[Milton Shupe]

Umm...I just had a revelation. I don't remember if I aligned the glass part axis to the world when I created them, or left them aligned to the model. I feel like an idiot for missing such a basic procedure.

Now that I'm thinking about it, can this effect also work in the exterior and 2d cockpit ? I have an open cockpit with a small windscreen so the rain effect in the 2d cockpit looks kinda weird.

The glass pivot location and orientation have no bearing on the effects. Only the map border affects it.

[MaddogK]

Just wanted to let you know I got it working. I rebuilt the glass from scratch, am using dummy nodes for the interior and exterior parent nodes instead of grouping the individual models, and converted the two TGA's to 24 bit BMP's for model export. The effect started working when I moved the effect poly's to the outside of the main glass geometry. The effect poly's still need some work as the raindrops are incredibly small and hard to see but I'll play with the mapping to make them bigger. I dunno if flipping the poly's will make the effect better to see as I forgot to do that when I built them, but the normals are facing the pilot, as well all the dummy nodes are aligned to the world (as you said- unnecessary) but it makes me feel better knowing they're aligned properly.

A hearty thank you Milton for your time and patience helping me figure this out, I couldn't have done it without you. Now I gotta tear the whole project back down, clean it up a bit more and work on the textures- your tuts will be a great help.

[Milton Shupe]

With the polys facing inwards, the tga's changed to bmps, and the interior node changes, and mapbox handles pointing rearwards, you should be good to go.

The size of the box affects the size of the rain drops. Keep the dimensions square and simply scale it larger to ensure the rain drops are not elongated or stretched.

Happy to help you you Sir :-)

[MaddogK]

My my my, how very interesting...If I use the rain TGA's instead of converting them to BMP's I get a much better effect in-game, otherwise the raindrops appear as blurry blue splatters on my windscreen. Is there a way to control when the game transitions from the stopped textures to the moving textures ?

I tried playing with the specular levels and even using specular maps, but specular maps crash makeMDL on export. Hmmmm......

[Milton Shupe]

My my my, how very interesting...If I use the rain TGA's instead of converting them to BMP's I get a much better effect in-game, otherwise the raindrops appear as blurry blue splatters on my windscreen. Is there a way to control when the game transitions from the stopped textures to the moving textures ?

I tried playing with the specular levels and even using specular maps, but specular maps crash makeMDL on export. Hmmmm......

Are you running this in FS9 or FSX?

And, do you have the maps aligned precisely with the window polys?

[MaddogK]

Are you running this in FS9 or FSX?

And, do you have the maps aligned precisely with the window polys?

Aye, FS9. What I didn't notice is when I switched the maps, the opacity reverted to 100 so the effect became very sharp, like the effect in the 2d cockpit. When I change the opacity back to 0 it reverted to the blue fuzzy shapes I had with the BMP's. And yes, the window poly's and maps are all aligned with the worlds vertical axis, as is the glass pane on the A/C. I havent tilted it to it's correct position yet as I wanted to get the effect working correct first. The effect riandrops appear exactly the same as in the default cessna 172 3d pit, but I was really hoping to get the same effect in the 3d pit as the raindrops in the 2d pit. I actually prefer the effect when the materials are set to 100 opacity, but the gmax tut, the jenny, and your instructions all say to use 0 opacity so I'll just go with it, I guess.

[Milton Shupe]

The maps should lay flat on the window glass was my point.

Then turn the map (leaving it flat on the window surface) to change the direction of the rain drop flow across the glass surface.

See the attached of the right front window of the D18S.
The Map is flat against the window pane, and map is rotated (using Local Coordinate pivot) to move the rain upwards and to the right based on the angle of the window.